An idea on how to accelerate the creation of this comics.

[Durabys]

Its simple.

We create a Kickstarter project (yes, there is an entire cathegory on KS dealing with comics's) with a modest goal. Best thing is this comics already has an entire chapter finished so people can see how it looks and works.

If the Kickstarter succeeds, it could give Arioch the means to finish this masterpiece..this century.

[Arioch]

I think Kickstarter works best when there's an actual product to offer people... it could be useful to do something like get a printed volume of the comic done. But I'm doubtful that a "pay me to work my free webcomic" pitch would generate enough revenue to really change anything.

[Durabys]

I think Kickstarter works best when there's an actual product to offer people... it could be useful to do something like get a printed volume of the comic done. But I'm doubtful that a "pay me to work my free webcomic" pitch would generate enough revenue to really change anything.

[fredgiblet]

More to the point, a Kickstarter requires either a current user-base or a good marketing campaign. I can see a Kickstarter being useful if the revenue from Outsider was approaching the point where Arioch might be able to quit his day job. Use the Kickstarter to push over the cliff so he could make it his full-time job and in doing so probably significantly improve the reader numbers, getting into the feedback loop that that gives. But I doubt we're anywhere near that (I would be mildly surprised if Outsider makes a consistent profit at all).

Kickstarter is not an advertising service. I've seen many projects that seem as if they are treating it as one, where they post a project and it gets 3 backers in the first couple days and then nothing from there on out, it appears that they're putting up their project and then leaving it, expecting it to get big on it's own. Kickstarter doesn't work that way unless you have a huge name (Obsidian almost certainly would have hit their goal purely off of word of mouth marketing), you need a marketing campaign.

[daelyte]

A few thoughts...

1. Is there a reason why outsider isn't on various webcomics lists? I know I'd vote for it every day.

2. side comics - mostly using existing sets and characters - could do things like:

* education modules (existing material from the Insider) presented by a Listel for young Loroi, with appropriate "sanzai bubbles" and some visual aids

* Loroi rescue and salvage crews searching for / recovering stuff from Bellarmine's wreckage

* Loroi going over stuff recovered from Bellarmine's wreckage, including bodies, and speculating

* Loroi looking over Alex's medical readings while he was unconscious

* unarmed combat practice on the ship, ending with Fireblade's opponent limping to the Doranzer's office

* crew repairing battle damage, I'm guessing mostly Soroin managing robots and a few civilians

* more stuff Loroi do when not in battle

* more stories from the Terran side of things, life at the academy, on the Bellarmine, etc

3. donation incentives - wallpapers, posters, drawings, tshirts, etc

4. fundraising for extra updates - some webcomics do this already - would at least pay for pizza

just off the top of my head ... there's a lot more, of course

[Karst45]

All those idea are good except that the problem is not entirely money but more of a time factor.

For instance, the side comic, thus a nice idea, it would actually increase the workload of the autor. The same go for the Donation incentives. You need time to create those, time that is taken away from the comic.

Fund raising could work but only for a short time. It not like Arioch will leave his job just because there a slight increase in money for let say, a month.


The ideal solution, thus silly, would be to have Arioch make more money in the long run, with steady update than his current job.

Unfortunately all idea have the problem of being only short lived.

If you find another talented artist willing to work for free on the side comics then maybe one of your idea will work, but i doubt it will increase the speed a which the comic go, just make something for us to read while waiting for the update

[daelyte]

For instance, the side comic, thus a nice idea, it would actually increase the workload of the author.

Which is why I specifically said that the side comics should use mostly existing sets and characters, which would take a lot less time and effort. They also don't have to be up to the same high standard as the main story. It would not only make something to read for dedicated fans, but also help grow the audience by providing the impression of more frequent updates.

The same go for the Donation incentives. You need time to create those, time that is taken away from the comic.

Donation incentives wouldn't take much time, if made with existing material, and in some cases even just previously unpublished drafts, sketches, etc. Some things that are already in the insider could be made into posters, or autographed printouts.

Fund raising could work but only for a short time. It not like Arioch will leave his job just because there a slight increase in money for let say, a month.

I agree it wouldn't be enough for Arioch to quit his job, but it might provide enough money to buy 3d models online, or even pay a talented artist to help with a segment of the main comic for a few hours.

[fredgiblet]

1.

It's a chicken and egg thing. Outside would probably be very popular if it updated more frequently. Every time there's a thread on /tg/ about it there's people saying "Holy shit that's still going? I bailed 2 years ago when it didn't update for 2 months!", if there was a consistent update schedule that was stuck to then I have no doubt it would be very popular. However to get that update schedule Arioch would have to basically treat it like a full-time job, which he can't do unless it IS a full-time job, which requires that it be making the money that only comes with popularity.

I've seen it on some lists but realistically without a consistent schedule it's not going to hold readers very well.

2.

I think you are VASTLY underestimating the time it would take even to do those. Using existing sets would help a lot, but even with existing sets it would still probably take hours for each page. This isn't XKCD.

3.

Digital goods would be easy enough to distribute though they would take a fair amount of time to make. Physical goods not only have to be designed you have to partner with someone to produce them. That means either investing money to get a run made that might not sell out for years or partnering with someone who will make them on demand which will cost more. That being said: Gentlemen, BEHOLD! http://www.cafepress.com/outsiderstuf

4.

The comics that do that have established reader-bases that are larger than Outsiders, again refer to the chicken and egg thing earlier. The main problem is that something like a large-scale Kickstarter is nearly certain to fail and a smaller fund-raising project puts pressure on Arioch to produce but likely won't actually get him the resources he needs to devote all his time to it.

I'd love to see Outsider go faster, but I don't see anything being sustainable unless Arioch can get like a year or so of uninterrupted time to work only on Outsider.

[discord]

the one thing i think might be 'doable' to promote more updates would be taking 'old sets' or even pages out of the existing story and make parody stuff, some such have been done by the fanbase(swapping out the text can make things rather hilarious), and as such Arioch COULD theoretically do some sketch art version of 'what if' funny pages....

basically doodles on napkins or whatever turned into a funny page, sort of like GU comics http://www.gucomics.com/comic/ but even simpler, perhaps weekly or so and with a outsider theme.

but that is as far as i think it COULD be done, without degrading the update schedule even worse.

[Karst45]

3.

Digital goods would be easy enough to distribute though they would take a fair amount of time to make. Physical goods not only have to be designed you have to partner with someone to produce them. That means either investing money to get a run made that might not sell out for years or partnering with someone who will make them on demand which will cost more. That being said: Gentlemen, BEHOLD! http://www.cafepress.com/outsiderstuf

Why is there no telepanty?

since we are on the subject, anyone know why i get those kind of "visual error" with some picture?

[Count Casimir]

The internet is breaking. The end times have come.

(I don't know, unfortunately. )

[fredgiblet]

Why is there no telepanty?

I'm fairly certain that the stuff in there has been the exact same for a few years

[daelyte]

That being said: Gentlemen, BEHOLD! http://www.cafepress.com/outsiderstuf

Exactly! Why is it at the bottom of the main page where nobody can see it? Why is the selection so limited?

Single prints can be made and sent through services such as Fedex. The price would be higher, but without minimums the selection could be very wide.

The comics that do that have established reader-bases that are larger than Outsiders, again refer to the chicken and egg thing earlier.

You don't know What It Takes. Outsider seems to have a much larger reader base.

Insufficient funds for a standing army of Ariochs? Hire mercenaries. I've seen some for $15/hr or less.

the one thing i think might be 'doable' to promote more updates would be taking 'old sets' or even pages out of the existing story and make parody stuff, some such have been done by the fanbase(swapping out the text can make things rather hilarious), and as such Arioch COULD theoretically do some sketch art version of 'what if' funny pages....

It doesn't have to be limited to parody. The Insider is full of topics which could be explained using such frankenstein comics, just put the text in Beryl's mouth (or sanzai bubbles) with little editing needed.

Most of the work is done.

Many pages use beautiful 3d models as sets, which means shots could be taken from different angles pretty quickly.

Characters that are already drawn in various poses are presumably kept as separate layers or images with transparency. They could be resized, mirrored and overlayed on other backdrops easily.

I'm sure making these things in the first place took hours, but recombining them would take minutes. We're potentially minutes away not from frequent Outsider updates, but at least Outsider-verse which would help keep readers around until the next main story update. That in turn means more donations, more votes, etc.

[Hālian]

That being said: Gentlemen, BEHOLD! http://www.cafepress.com/outsiderstuf

Not enough hats. Needs green/white, green/black, etc. ballcaps with the Lobster-Ship Emblem of Doom® on them.

[Karst45]

Insufficient funds for a standing army of Ariochs? Hire mercenaries. I've seen some for $15/hr or less.

And there the question of; Do Arioch want help? At one point i asked him if he wanted some help with his set, maybe not the whole 3D but some prop that do take time to make. I dont remember the exact answer but i had a felling that the comic was like his baby so i didnt insist.

[fredgiblet]

Even if it's not an issue of wanting to do it all himself, hiring outsiders (pun not intended) would end up being a pain, he'd have to manage them and clean up their product to make sure it matched styles. Paying them would have to be a short-term thing as well unless he got more income from it, which he probably wouldn't.

[Suederwind]

education modules (existing material from the Insider) presented by a Listel for young Loroi, with appropriate "sanzai bubbles" and some visual aids

Don´t tell me, I am the only one thinking "Nadesico" after reading this...

On topic:
I haven´t noticed that there is an outsider shop, until about a week ago. The selection is indeed very limited, which is a sad thing, and the link is placed on a very unfavorable location.

Characters that are already drawn in various poses are presumably kept as separate layers or images with transparency. They could be resized, mirrored and overlayed on other backdrops easily.

I assume that it would not be that easy. Think of different perspectives, lighting and so on. Those things can´t be changed that easily, I think, and the outcome might not look that great.

[daelyte]

@fredgiblet:
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider020.html
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider100.html

Look at Beryl's hair, eyebrows, eyes, nose and ears. Arioch's own style changed over time.

Minor characters (shoe girl, guards, bridge bunnies, fighter pilots) that only appear for a few pages, could be done by short-term help with even less impact on the overall style.

@Suederwind:
There are 100 pages of drawn characters to choose from, in different poses and perspectives. Most of the time it's hard to tell if the lighting is accurate, especially in close-ups.

[Karst45]

@Suederwind:
There are 100 pages of drawn characters to choose from, in different poses and perspectives. Most of the time it's hard to tell if the lighting is accurate, especially in close-ups.

well what would help to create those sillyness (and i say it in a positive way Silly is funny!) Would be to have character and background separated that way we could do some kind of collage giving us more flexibility.

The "bubbleless" panel would help but it still more work

[Michael]

Why is there no telepanty?

There is always Telepanty.