Loroi sexuality

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Dragoon
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Dragoon »

discord wrote:dragoon: cloning? artificial insemination? we are talking about a species that has to impose STRICT regulation to limit reproduction, population is not a problem, nor is re-population.

shorter gestation time(probably), faster to mature to reproductive age(8 instead of 15 years), with a 10:1 ratio in favor of childbearing gender...without regulation the population would double within a few years, which actually would be a liability not an advantage.

I was thinking of the fact they are HEAVILY outnumbered to begin with, and in one page The Commander indicates that the two fleets that arrived before The Tempest "didn't fair so well"

assuming only half the fleet didn't make it that's still a lot of people dead. ad from the back history I seemed to get the impression casualty rates are pretty high for both sides. In any war where your loosing more people than you gaining through birth you might need that big spike in populations...just to break even.

If the Umiak have them outnumbered I was curious if they would resort to those techniques to catch up and pull ahead of the umiak if possible....

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Re: Loroi sexuality

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Suederwind wrote:Will Alex encounter a Loroi male sometime in the future?
His name is A Welcome Rain, he'll be coming on-board eventually to replace Tempest's Farseer, and yes he's a male on a warship, it's a thing they're trying.

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Re: Loroi sexuality

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fredgiblet wrote:His name is A Welcome Rain, he'll be coming on-board eventually to replace Tempest's Farseer, and yes he's a male on a warship, it's a thing they're trying.
How do you know?
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Re: Loroi sexuality

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Trantor wrote:How do you know?
It's been brought up several times. We already have artwork of him.

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Re: Loroi sexuality

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Re: Loroi sexuality

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fredgiblet wrote:
Trantor wrote:How do you know?
It's been brought up several times. We already have artwork of him.
Ah, yes. There must be a hole in my head, since i´ve totally forgotten about him.

Thx for the hint!
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Re: Loroi sexuality

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Suederwind wrote:Are there different forms of matchmaking for each Loroi culture and what kind of differences are there?
I don't imagine too much variation because the core problems will be essentially the same, and because everyone will have to conform to some basic standards set by the central government. Some subcultures might ritualize the matchmaking process more than others. Some might be more lax in easing restrictions, such as in colonial areas where population growth was encouraged even in peacetime. Some might make a lottery out of it. If there was anywhere that a female could actually go and buy sex, it would probably be on Maia/Donei.

Pre-recontact Perrein also had a wrinkle in the sense that some males had a comparatively high status (being priests of the local religion), but were often sent to remote foreign communities "on loan" as a sort of exchange of hostages to prevent conflicts.
Seuderwind wrote:If the males are not part of these female "families", do they have some kind of similar "family" connection between them? Like father, son and grandson?
Parent-child relationships are often not very strong in Loroi of either gender, because the parent usually takes very little direct role in raising the child, and so your mother is not very distinct from the numerous aunts and cousins and other adult women you grew up around. Parents who take a particular interest in their children may develop strong friendships with them, but there is usually not that automatic bond between mother and child that we are accustomed to. This relationship is probably even less common between fathers and sons, as fathers will rarely meet any of their offspring, unless perhaps the son joins the same local caste/order and they become acquainted that way.

Given the low male birth rates, brothers will be very rare. Most Loroi brothers are probably twins, who would have a special relationship above and beyond family. But again, this would be rare.
Mr Bojangles wrote:What are the Loroi concepts of love? For a species in which pair bonding is likely nonexistent, I can't see them having a concept of romantic love. That could change, though, depending on Loroi attitudes towards homosexuality. As the Loroi do have family units and warrior crèches, I can see them having concepts of familial and platonic love.
Love is permitted and even encouraged, but attachment is not. Loroi females enjoy the mating encounters, and not just the physical aspect of them, and can develop strong affection for the male mating partner and remember the interaction fondly for many years thereafter, during the long periods in which she will be expected to go without having sex. However, because the males must be shared with other females, there are taboos against infatuation and jealousy. While healthy rivalry is encouraged between warrior females in nearly all matters, jealously over a male is considered a repugnant trait on par with dishonesty. Even just requesting a second encounter with the same male would be seen as a warning sign of potential attachment.

However, rules are made to be broken, and a female with sufficient power and privilege can, if she wishes, see a particular male more than once, or even have him allocated exclusively to herself. There are cases where male and female form permanent emotional attachments, but these are subjects of the kinds of tales that don't end well, resulting in high body counts and fallen kingdoms. When a female becomes obsessed with and refuses to share a male, this is viewed as a signal to her friends (and to her enemies) that she's about to go off the rails. So, if the female is still sensible, such things must be handled quietly, behind closed doors.

For their part, Loroi males are very emotional and feel very intensely, but they are often fickle and changeable, with short attention spans. Which I suppose is not that different from many human males. I'm reminded of a sequence from Finnian's Rainbow in which a Leprechaun is gradually becoming human: "Oh Sharon, you're the only one! Wait, you're not Sharon at all; you're Susan. Yet I feel the same frenzy for you! Is this what it's like to be mortal? Is every girl the only girl? I'm beginning to like it!"

Because attachment to a male is discouraged, the most important emotional attachments for a female Loroi are to her female friends and relatives. Sisterly affection can be very intense (as it is among humans), and this intimacy is increased by telepathic contact, especially when physically touching. This kind of contact is how most females satisfy their need for intimacy and emotional fulfillment. It is this telepathic stimulation (not sex) that is the primary glue that binds Loroi social groups together. This can be difficult for humans to appreciate, because of our tendency to think of intimacy exclusively in sexual terms.

Because of the intimacy of telepathic contact, homosexual activity is relatively rare, though in any biological system there will always be deviation. The idea of a "homosexual relationship" wouldn't make much sense to the Loroi, since they don't really have heterosexual "relationships" and they are not inherently monogamous. Instead, females might have a "normal" intimate friendship with one or more females, to which a sexual element was added.

A homosexual male Loroi would be in a very difficult position, as he would have very little opportunity for intimacy with other males.
Koori wrote:If two loroi girls decide to have sex, it will cause a condemnation of society?
I think the view of society will vary depending on subculture. On the one hand, Loroi traditions can be very rigid. On the other hand, such activity would be viewed by the Loroi as just a private behavior, whereas in our culture it is usually viewed as choosing a completely alternate lifestyle. And for the Loroi, sex is almost exclusively a private subject; public displays of sexuality (of any kind) would be very unusual and unwelcome. I think that in warrior culture, homosexuality might be considered a problem, not necessarily because there is anything "wrong" with such activity, but because in the military it's important to feel that the warrior next to you has your back, and is not going to either a) give preferential treatment to her sexual partners, or b) confront you at inopportune moments with unwanted sexual advances. And because the nature of telepathy makes it difficult to keep such things secret.
fredgiblet wrote:
Suederwind wrote:Will Alex encounter a Loroi male sometime in the future?
His name is A Welcome Rain, he'll be coming on-board eventually to replace Tempest's Farseer, and yes he's a male on a warship, it's a thing they're trying.
There will probably be at least two, the other being the Emperor's nephew (Ashrain's grandfather).
Koori wrote:About industry: 1.Sex is an excellent means of removing nervous tension (for humans) and it is important for the war, with frequent extreme events. 2.Anyway a lot of things can be considered part of this industry - and the innocent candy in the form of hearts, and red-light districts. I mean, does they have the means of expressing sympathy and special favors? About relationships of girls again.
Because humans are monogamous, sex does a lot of things for us biochemically that help keep a pair together and happy. Organisms that are not monogamous will probably enjoy sex very much, but it won't necessarily have the same soothing effects that it has on us. Rutting stags don't seem very calmed by the act of sex; they have a lot of other females to impregnate in a short period of time.

There will certainly be an industry around the "red light districts" in which the encounters happen. Though I think the emphasis will usually be on an upscale experience, since everything is very official and sanctioned. I imagine something like the Japanese hanamachi districts in which the courtesans were quartered: very ornate and surrounded with much ceremony.

It's possible that some mating rituals might involve the females bringing ritual gifts, but since neither party chooses his or her partner, I doubt such gifting has reached the levels it has in Western society. And no, I don't think the Loroi females buy each other Valentine's Day cards.
Koori wrote:About react to human girls: Whether such contact cause conflict because of jealousy?
Jealousy between Loroi females is greatly frowned upon. A human female would have very little chance of being allowed to have sex with a Loroi male, so there wouldn't be much for a Loroi female to be jealous of.

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Re: Loroi sexuality

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Arioch wrote:A homosexual male Loroi would be in a very difficult position, as he would have very little opportunity for intimacy with other males.
What? :o Don't they live in monasteries seperate from the females? You would think that the place that homosexual activity would occur is in a monestary seperate from the other gender.
However, rules are made to be broken, and a female with sufficient power and privilege can, if she wishes, see a particular male more than once, or even have him allocated exclusively to herself. There are cases where male and female form permanent emotional attachments, but these are subjects of the kinds of tales that don't end well, resulting in high body counts and fallen kingdoms. When a female becomes obsessed with and refuses to share a male, this is viewed as a signal to her friends (and to her enemies) that she's about to go off the rails. So, if the female is still sensible, such things must be handled quietly, behind closed doors.


This really sounds like the recipe for a greek tragedy (get it? :) ).
Parent-child relationships are often not very strong in Loroi of either gender, because the parent usually takes very little direct role in raising the child, and so your mother is not very distinct from the numerous aunts and cousins and other adult women you grew up around. Parents who take a particular interest in their children may develop strong friendships with them, but there is usually not that automatic bond between mother and child that we are accustomed to. This relationship is probably even less common between fathers and sons, as fathers will rarely meet any of their offspring, unless perhaps the son joins the same local caste/order and they become acquainted that way.


Will family bonds in general be explored in future chapters? I understand that a lot of characters have had very intemate experience with loss so I suppose it's going to be brought up in some awkward dialouge or something :lol:.
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Re: Loroi sexuality

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Jericho wrote: What? Don't they live in monasteries seperate from the females? You would think that the place that homosexual activity would occur is in a monestary seperate from the other gender.
Males are constantly surrounded by females, even in the "monastic" orders. Male children are raised separately from the female children, but the caregivers are mostly female.
Jericho wrote: Will family bonds in general be explored in future chapters? I understand that a lot of characters have had very intemate experience with loss so I suppose it's going to be brought up in some awkward dialouge or something.
Yes, some of these issues will be explored in the current chapter. The characters are going to be packed into a tight space with a lot of time and little to do other than talk.

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Re: Loroi sexuality

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Love is permitted and even encouraged, but attachment is not. Loroi females enjoy the mating encounters, and not just the physical aspect of them, and can develop strong affection for the male mating partner and remember the interaction fondly for many years thereafter, during the long periods in which she will be expected to go without having sex. However, because the males must be shared with other females, there are taboos against infatuation and jealousy. While healthy rivalry is encouraged between warrior females in nearly all matters, jealously over a male is considered a repugnant trait on par with dishonesty. Even just requesting a second encounter with the same male would be seen as a warning sign of potential attachment.

However, rules are made to be broken, and a female with sufficient power and privilege can, if she wishes, see a particular male more than once, or even have him allocated exclusively to herself. There are cases where male and female form permanent emotional attachments, but these are subjects of the kinds of tales that don't end well, resulting in high body counts and fallen kingdoms. When a female becomes obsessed with and refuses to share a male, this is viewed as a signal to her friends (and to her enemies) that she's about to go off the rails. So, if the female is still sensible, such things must be handled quietly, behind closed doors.

For their part, Loroi males are very emotional and feel very intensely, but they are often fickle and changeable, with short attention spans. Which I suppose is not that different from many human males. I'm reminded of a sequence from Finnian's Rainbow in which a Leprechaun is gradually becoming human: "Oh Sharon, you're the only one! Wait, you're not Sharon at all; you're Susan. Yet I feel the same frenzy for you! Is this what it's like to be mortal? Is every girl the only girl? I'm beginning to like it!"

Because attachment to a male is discouraged, the most important emotional attachments for a female Loroi are to her female friends and relatives. Sisterly affection can be very intense (as it is among humans), and this intimacy is increased by telepathic contact, especially when physically touching. This kind of contact is how most females satisfy their need for intimacy and emotional fulfillment. It is this telepathic stimulation (not sex) that is the primary glue that binds Loroi social groups together. This can be difficult for humans to appreciate, because of our tendency to think of intimacy exclusively in sexual terms.

Because of the intimacy of telepathic contact, homosexual activity is relatively rare, though in any biological system there will always be deviation. The idea of a "homosexual relationship" wouldn't make much sense to the Loroi, since they don't really have heterosexual "relationships" and they are not inherently monogamous. Instead, females might have a "normal" intimate friendship with one or more females, to which a sexual element was added.

A homosexual male Loroi would be in a very difficult position, as he would have very little opportunity for intimacy with other males.
The taboo against attachment to a male makes a lot of sense, given the scarcity of males in the population. Jealousy amongst humans about romantic partners, when there are plenty of males and females such that sharing isn't necessary, is bad enough. Amongst the Loroi, well, I'm not surprised that their stories would show that such attachments "don't end well."

I forgot that the Loroi don't really have family structures that are similar to human family structures. There wouldn't really be parent-child connections. As you point out, those sisterly bonds must indeed be very, very important to the Loroi.

As for hetero- and homosexual relationships, it would make sense that they don't really have a concept of either, given that their concept of relationships in general aren't anything like ours. Given their concepts of relationships and their telepathy, what is Loroi sociability like? Telepathy would suggest the potential for very deep bonds, but it would also suggest that a Loroi could have a pretty large personal space bubble...

As a thought experiment, the Loroi are very interesting. I'm looking forward to reading more, Arioch.

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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

Arioch wrote: Males are constantly surrounded by females, even in the "monastic" orders. Male children are raised separately from the female children, but the caregivers are mostly female.
Ah that explains it!
Arioch wrote: Yes, some of these issues will be explored in the current chapter. The characters are going to be packed into a tight space with a lot of time and little to do other than talk.
Well this is gonna be fun

Alex: So you're thirteen and have a kid? :shock:. How is she? :D

Beryl: She died in the war :( .

Alex: Oh... :| (backs away slowly).
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

Mr Bojangles wrote: The taboo against attachment to a male makes a lot of sense, given the scarcity of males in the population. Jealousy amongst humans about romantic partners, when there are plenty of males and females such that sharing isn't necessary, is bad enough. Amongst the Loroi, well, I'm not surprised that their stories would show that such attachments "don't end well."

I forgot that the Loroi don't really have family structures that are similar to human family structures. There wouldn't really be parent-child connections. As you point out, those sisterly bonds must indeed be very, very important to the Loroi.

As for hetero- and homosexual relationships, it would make sense that they don't really have a concept of either, given that their concept of relationships in general aren't anything like ours. Given their concepts of relationships and their telepathy, what is Loroi sociability like? Telepathy would suggest the potential for very deep bonds, but it would also suggest that a Loroi could have a pretty large personal space bubble...

As a thought experiment, the Loroi are very interesting. I'm looking forward to reading more, Arioch.
Sorry for the double post but something bothers me.

Beryl stated that frequent sexual encounters was good for their health (males) so wouldn't any loroi female who cared personally about a male simply allow other female's to "loan" him for the sake of his good health since she's clearly too important in society to babysit him all the time. Or is this one of the reasons it doesn't end well.
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Mr Bojangles »

Jericho wrote:
Sorry for the double post but something bothers me.

Beryl stated that frequent sexual encounters was good for their health (males) so wouldn't any loroi female who cared personally about a male simply allow other female's to "loan" him for the sake of his good health since she's clearly too important in society to babysit him all the time. Or is this one of the reasons it doesn't end well.
Well, only ten percent of the Loroi population is male. So, a Loroi male would never lack for sexual encounters, even in peacetime conditions. I would imagine that rather than being worried about a male's health, a matriarch would be more concerned with who the male was breeding with. You know, lineage, pedigree, and politics.

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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

Mr Bojangles wrote:Well, only ten percent of the Loroi population is male. So, a Loroi male would never lack for sexual encounters, even in peacetime conditions. I would imagine that rather than being worried about a male's health, a matriarch would be more concerned with who the male was breeding with. You know, lineage, pedigree, and politics.
Yes that would probably be a major concern. Makes you wonder if Loroi females may use males of rival families to spite each other. Sort of like a "I banged your mom, in your face" kind of insult.

That being said i wonder now how ancient Loroi may have dealt with males during their time of constant warfare. Would ancient Loroi tactics include purpously target enemy males for the purpose of hampering enemy reproductive capacity?
Or would they perhaps view such acts as unchivilrous and cowardly and prefer to take males alive for the purpose of reproduction with their own clan? If this is the case it would probably have helped against inbreeding in a species with very limited breeding pairs.
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Re: Loroi sexuality

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Ismail Ibn Sharif, an Alaouite sultan, had 867 childrens and he still had to find time to rule his country. I don't think that taking couple of males from enemy would hamper their ability to breed.
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Re: Loroi sexuality

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bunnyboy wrote:Ismail Ibn Sharif, an Alaouite sultan, had 867 childrens and he still had to find time to rule his country. I don't think that taking couple of males from enemy would hamper their ability to breed.
The amount of males a clan has will affect how many children every female can have before the clan is too closely related to itself too be healthy. So a large clan wouldn't really be that affected if they have suitable replacements. But a smaller clan will have to find new males quickly before their descendants starts losing toes.
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Alexandr Koori »

In a situation when a girl feels a sense of sympathy and admiration to the other girl, how she will be able to express your feelings? How she will reach mutual affection? And will? Or the feelings like this are not taken to show?

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Re: Loroi sexuality

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Alexandr Koori wrote:In a situation when a girl feels a sense of sympathy and admiration to the other girl, how she will be able to express your feelings? How she will reach mutual affection? And will? Or the feelings like this are not taken to show?
Telepathy makes it very diffecult to lie to another or hide information. If a loroi female has feelings for another all she really need is to have a mental conversation with her for the other loroi to "pick up the wibes" :D.
Other than that there is always telepanties :D.
Last edited by Jericho on Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Trantor »

Alexandr Koori wrote:In a situation when a girl feels a sense of sympathy and admiration to the other girl, how she will be able to express your feelings? How she will reach mutual affection? And will? Or the feelings like this are not taken to show?
She´ll probably wait until she´s the only one within telepatic range.
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by NOMAD »

Trantor wrote:
Alexandr Koori wrote:In a situation when a girl feels a sense of sympathy and admiration to the other girl, how she will be able to express your feelings? How she will reach mutual affection? And will? Or the feelings like this are not taken to show?
She´ll probably wait until she´s the only one within telepatic range.
hehe that must be any interesting for a unsuspecting loroi, I imagine it would be like getting a sudden telepathy "text" that read |<3 U|.

however on a more serious note, wouldn't that kind of situation be frowned upon but the higher authorities. i know the Loroi have semi-hero worshiping of their famous heros (with the unfortunate tendancy or dying quickly), but i would expect lower ranked loroi to have "human form" of displaying respect telepathically to their higher ups.

also small question, how would two very "close" loroi be able to continue their "friendship" if they were on seperate ships? ( IE Ashrain having a step sister on another strike group in the reserve fleets or assign to a desk job on Cry of the Wind). I sure vid com's./text letters would be used (if possible/allowed) but missing the telepathical connection seems to me, of lossing the main essence of the sister-sister bond, some loroi would have.
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