Miscellaneous Terran question-and-answer thread

[fredgiblet]

Better to credit this to power losses due to applying reciprocating forces to the legs, lower armor thicknesses due to the greater surface area, lower speeds due to the power losses in the legs, and higher vulnerability due to the increased height than to blame it on equipment costs, especially since any Gundam setting is a inherently unreliable source of hard data.

Don't forget that arm-mounted weapons mean that your cockpit is in view of the enemy guns long before you can shoot at them if you're coming over a hill.

The only reason the US didn't field a heavy tank in WW2 is because some general or another interfered with the development of such, the main US tank of the Korean war was a heavy tank intended for WW2.

That's not entirely true. The US had a heavy tank already finishing development when WW2 started (for us), it wasn't fielded because it was a PoS.

[NOMAD]

Absalom, thanks for the reply first, now to the business,

I agree on the nukes for TCA as their best means of deploying a large explosion, but they also have fusion-base drive systems ( and similar torpedo's), which would be the better way ( more power vd a chemical base rocket ( which are obsolete in the outsider Uni). besides getting the warheads to the target is the challenge given the distance involved ( hence the prevance of beam weapon with AM torpedo as short to LR weapon, depending of the race and how used: Umaik mass LR missile fire, Loroi more precise SR firepower).

good points on the Gundam design problems ( also did wonder why the limb could be blasted off so easily in the series) I didn't think about those, I was thinking of purely cost based analysis ( IE mech warrior style).

about Sherman vs. Tigers, I concede the point u made. Differing Industrial output for both countries. The point I was trying to make was the difference is tank approach as related to mech's vs tration fighting crafts. The US in WW2, saw their involvement in Foreign wars so they made the Sherman very easy to maintain and mass produceable ( US was where Model-T were mass produced in the millions IIRC). The Germans took a more high performance, top of the line approach where their vehicle were the best but hard to produce in bulk. The heavy tank ( M26/46 Perishing) wasn't deployed because the US didn't think they would need a heavy tank ( and thus the Tigers became quiet a shock to the US brass when fielded, but became munt when 8 Sherman could take out 2 tigers, while losing 5 tanks. those 5 tanks were easily replaceable). As well fred is right that none of the heavy tanks wasn't developed properly for deployment ( although a few test M26 vehicles were rushed into Europe but by time they got their they saw very little action.)

as for power armour, Halo and 40K style, both those universes have their reason for mounting power armour. In halo the Spartan-II were meant as the counter insurgency, pin-point strike team that could infiltrate and take out/recover/neutralize different targets. When the Covenant showed up the S-II were the only ground force that would go up against the covies, win and still make it out. the newer Spartan-4 are a similar force but expanded to much larger force ( 31 s-2 vs 400+ s-4). In 40k WH power armour is only thing making humanity able to defend itself, but most of the armour is legacy tech as humanity is in a downward spiral of tech development ( technology is more religious then understood). In both universes to wear power armour requires a lot of surgical alteration and augmentation to use ( and thus limits their number, thought in 40K that doesn't seem to be a problem, but i'm not very familiar with the fiction so . . . )

[GeoModder]

Can't remember if this was asked before, but do the Terrans know of another habitable planet/moon besides the ones they already colonized?

According to the Alien Contact summary, the Orgus vessel bumping on Humans at 82 Eridani were on the way to the 'Loop I bubble'.
Did they expect to make such a long journey when filled to the rim with refugees and likely limited supplies/fuel? It looks like its at least twice as far as the distance from Esperanza to Naam, which took 2 months for the Scout Corps vessels.

[Arioch]

Can't remember if this was asked before, but do the Terrans know of another habitable planet/moon besides the ones they already colonized?

"Habitable" is a subjective term, but there aren't any peach destinations that were in the queue for colonization.

According to the Alien Contact summary, the Orgus vessel bumping on Humans at 82 Eridani were on the way to the 'Loop I bubble'. Did they expect to make such a long journey when filled to the rim with refugees and likely limited supplies/fuel? It looks like its at least twice as far as the distance from Esperanza to Naam, which took 2 months for the Scout Corps vessels.

Yes, the Loop I bubble is very far away. They were probably short on supplies, which may have factored into the decision to stop running and request asylum.

[Absalom]

Better to credit this to power losses due to applying reciprocating forces to the legs, lower armor thicknesses due to the greater surface area, lower speeds due to the power losses in the legs, and higher vulnerability due to the increased height than to blame it on equipment costs, especially since any Gundam setting is a inherently unreliable source of hard data.

Don't forget that arm-mounted weapons mean that your cockpit is in view of the enemy guns long before you can shoot at them if you're coming over a hill.

Technically depends on where you have the arm(s) mounted, but good point regardless.

I agree on the nukes for TCA as their best means of deploying a large explosion, but they also have fusion-base drive systems ( and similar torpedo's), which would be the better way ( more power vd a chemical base rocket ( which are obsolete in the outsider Uni).

Better if you can get it miniaturized, yes. The last time I checked, the Polywell fusion device looked like it would only achieve net-positive power when above a certain size. If your pure-fusion bombs require too much size for your missiles to be effective, then there's no point to them (my father once mentioned that at one point some government had determined how to make a pure-fusion warhead that would work... but that a 1 megaton example would itself weigh in the realm of 1 megaton; might as well just use TNT).

good points on the Gundam design problems ( also did wonder why the limb could be blasted off so easily in the series) I didn't think about those, I was thinking of purely cost based analysis ( IE mech warrior style).

It's worth noting that when Battletech (the original name for the system, from the 70s or 80s) was initially developed they did some analysis, and determined that for the mechs to be better than the vehicles they needed to place some negative effects on the vehicles. So they did (maximum weight limit I think, but I'm not sure).

As for Gundams being fragile, that was likely for plot reasons. The physics of Gundam can be summed up by a paraphrasing of someone that Masamune Shirou knew in the 80s: "The parts, they're flying!".

as for power armour, Halo and 40K style, both those universes have their reason for mounting power armour.

In 40k WH power armour is only thing making humanity able to defend itself, but most of the armour is legacy tech as humanity is in a downward spiral of tech development ( technology is more religious then understood). In both universes to wear power armour requires a lot of surgical alteration and augmentation to use ( and thus limits their number, thought in 40K that doesn't seem to be a problem, but i'm not very familiar with the fiction so . . . )

I don't know of any reason why WH40k powered armor requires surgical modification, I believe that would likely be the process of creating a Space Marine instead (Space Marines aren't so much engineered, as modified after birth, maybe after adolescence, by implanting genetically engineered organs/symbiotes called gene-seeds created for the purpose). Which is not to say that WH40k is shy about surgical alterations (they're not quite Umiak... except when they are), but I don't think those are actually required to use powered armor in the setting. The main restriction on the stuff is cost & complexity (the main weapon of their armies, the lasgun, can apparently last generations, and recharges from sunlight; suffice to say, very low supply chain requirements for those).

In the real world I can see how a gene-seed equivalent would be useful (you could design one to generate electrical power, thereby answering the question of how you power the armor reliably in the field: extra food for the troops), but the Halo Spartan mods are dubious to me. Either the suits weren't designed right, or they were looking for something that unmodified humans probably NEVER could have done, and certainly couldn't have done while carrying equipment (hence why the armor was powered: you had to modify them to get the job done without armor and weapons, so with was pushing things a bit).

[Jakelope13]

(...) In both universes to wear power armour requires a lot of surgical alteration and augmentation to use ( and thus limits their number, thought in 40K that doesn't seem to be a problem, but i'm not very familiar with the fiction so . . . )

I don't know of any reason why WH40k powered armor requires surgical modification, I believe that would likely be the process of creating a Space Marine instead (...)
(...) but the Halo Spartan mods are dubious to me. Either the suits weren't designed right, or they were looking for something that unmodified humans probably NEVER could have done, and certainly couldn't have done while carrying equipment (hence why the armor was powered: you had to modify them to get the job done without armor and weapons, so with was pushing things a bit).

From what I understand, the Spartans were originally designed as deep-infiltrators, but since the Mjolnir armor was being developed at the same time, they also designed them to be able to withstand the stresses that the armor would put on them. In one test case, they put a regular trooper into the Spartan armor and asked him to move normally. The armor responded so well, and so ridiculously quickly, to him moving his arm, it shattered the bones in his arm. And then proceeded to break every bone in his body as he reacted to the immense pain, amplifying his shudders of pain... or something.

Basically, the Spartans were engineered because their armor was far, far too dangerous to be worn by regular military personnel, whose bodies aren't designed to withstand the stress that comes with super-sensitive reflexes that came with the armor (there was mention in one of the novels that a Spartan could make a salute by simply thinking the action, and the armor did the rest of the motion for them)

[NOMAD]

(...) In both universes to wear power armour requires a lot of surgical alteration and augmentation to use ( and thus limits their number, thought in 40K that doesn't seem to be a problem, but i'm not very familiar with the fiction so . . . )

I don't know of any reason why WH40k powered armor requires surgical modification, I believe that would likely be the process of creating a Space Marine instead (...)
(...) but the Halo Spartan mods are dubious to me. Either the suits weren't designed right, or they were looking for something that unmodified humans probably NEVER could have done, and certainly couldn't have done while carrying equipment (hence why the armor was powered: you had to modify them to get the job done without armor and weapons, so with was pushing things a bit).

From what I understand, the Spartans were originally designed as deep-infiltrators, but since the Mjolnir armor was being developed at the same time, they also designed them to be able to withstand the stresses that the armor would put on them. In one test case, they put a regular trooper into the Spartan armor and asked him to move normally. The armor responded so well, and so ridiculously quickly, to him moving his arm, it shattered the bones in his arm. And then proceeded to break every bone in his body as he reacted to the immense pain, amplifying his shudders of pain... or something.

Basically, the Spartans were engineered because their armor was far, far too dangerous to be worn by regular military personnel, whose bodies aren't designed to withstand the stress that comes with super-sensitive reflexes that came with the armor (there was mention in one of the novels that a Spartan could make a salute by simply thinking the action, and the armor did the rest of the motion for them)

very true, the novel to find that info is Halo: Fall of Reach: Dr Halsey state the liquid metal that provide the muscles couldn't be scale black, their on 100% of the time, hence the need to augment the Spartans.

The WH 40K: I was referencing the motion comic that came with the 40K movie which I've heard isn't like that like the real fiction. anyway the comic mention the Space Marine received some mod to their back so they can wear the armour, but its not a world a know it depth ( read some fiction but not everything).

as for the fusion warheads, I think human torpedo's work in the similar fashion to Loroi torpedo's, where their warheads and fuel are combined. longer duration of fight = less boom when impact happens. But a self-contained warhead would be better system as the fuel could add to the missile impact.

good points on the Gundam and Battletech ( sry grew up with MechWarrior)

[Mr Bojangles]

I don't know of any reason why WH40k powered armor requires surgical modification, I believe that would likely be the process of creating a Space Marine instead (Space Marines aren't so much engineered, as modified after birth, maybe after adolescence, by implanting genetically engineered organs/symbiotes called gene-seeds created for the purpose). Which is not to say that WH40k is shy about surgical alterations (they're not quite Umiak... except when they are), but I don't think those are actually required to use powered armor in the setting. The main restriction on the stuff is cost & complexity (the main weapon of their armies, the lasgun, can apparently last generations, and recharges from sunlight; suffice to say, very low supply chain requirements for those).

Technically, WH40K power armor doesn't need surgical modification of the wearer to be useable. The Sisters of Battle and Inquisitors where power armor without mods...

The WH 40K: I was referencing the motion comic that came with the 40K movie which I've heard isn't like that like the real fiction. anyway the comic mention the Space Marine received some mod to their back so they can wear the armour, but its not a world a know it depth ( read some fiction but not everything).

...but, the Black Carapace allows the Marine to directly interface their central nervous system (and other organs) to the power armor. The in-universe reason is that improves armor efficiency (movement, protection, drug delivery, etc).

[Murica]

Hello I'm new and have questions does humanity's independent nations have there own space fleets? and if so how big? I don't expect these to be massive or anything just there size comparing to the TCA fleet

[Arioch]

Hello I'm new and have questions does humanity's independent nations have there own space fleets? and if so how big? I don't expect these to be massive or anything just there size comparing to the TCA fleet

The individual worlds have police frigates that are responsible for local patrol and law enforcement. These are limited by treaty as to size and number.

[Jakelope13]

The individual worlds have police frigates that are responsible for local patrol and law enforcement. These are limited by treaty as to size and number.

If the frigates are only available to the individual nations for local protection, does that mean they aren't equipped with an FTL drive? I'd imagine it'd be hard to convince the TCA why, say, Proxima might need a police force capable of patrolling Esperanza.

*EDIT*

Also, how large are the shipboard weapons, especially the Terran ones? Are the Heavy lasers/mass drivers restricted to the Cruiser-type vessels because of power requirements, or that they're too mass-intensive, and reduce the lighter warships armament too much to be an effective replacement?

[Murica]

You said that the TCA marines have never invaded anyone have they seen any combat at all? Also I did some math and there is less then 200 million humans in the colonies has this caused tensions between the colonies and earth? I don't mean violent but would a nation on mars more willingly support a nation on aldea then one on earth?

[Arioch]

If the frigates are only available to the individual nations for local protection, does that mean they aren't equipped with an FTL drive? I'd imagine it'd be hard to convince the TCA why, say, Proxima might need a police force capable of patrolling Esperanza.

Most police frigates would have FTL drive. They'd need it to effectively patrol. A police force would be of limited effectiveness if you could safely evade them just by jumping to the next system. Also, most of these ships will be manufactured somewhere other than where they're deployed; the vast majority are constructed in the Sol system.

Also, how large are the shipboard weapons, especially the Terran ones? Are the Heavy lasers/mass drivers restricted to the Cruiser-type vessels because of power requirements, or that they're too mass-intensive, and reduce the lighter warships armament too much to be an effective replacement?

The primary limitation on starship weaponry is power requirements. A typical frigate would look something like this:

Class: Frigate (FF)
Length: 180 m
Crew: 100
Screens: none
Max. Acceleration: 7 G
Armor Rating: 35
# in Class: 12
Weapon Mounts
02x1 Medium Laser
02x2 Point-Defense Laser
04 Missile Tubes
01 Anti-Missile Launcher

You said that the TCA marines have never invaded anyone have they seen any combat at all? Also I did some math and there is less then 200 million humans in the colonies has this caused tensions between the colonies and earth? I don't mean violent but would a nation on mars more willingly support a nation on aldea then one on earth?

The Colonial Marines have been called in the help local authorities with emergencies, criminal/terrorist situations, bug hunts and the like.

Many of the colonial nations still need lots of support from Earth, and even those (Mars and Aldea) that have achieved a certain amount of self-sufficiency still have strong economic ties to Earth (where 90% of their potential customers live). Some may resent Earth's influence, but most conflicts have been local disputes. Many of the colonies are rivals. The potential war that the Colonial Fleet was founded to prevent was between Yinghuo (the largest Martian nation) and Aldea.

[Murica]

Sorry if I'm asking to many questions but when you said 12 for number of frigates did you total or maximum or average

[Arioch]

Sorry if I'm asking to many questions but when you said 12 for number of frigates did you total or maximum or average

The entry was cut and pasted from my notes; I didn't realize the "# in Class" line was there.

There are 12 vessels in that particular class (Hayes). The total number of police frigates in service is probably around twice that number.

[NOMAD]

yay neat, Hayes Frigate ( names after someone again)

& Victory class BC's ????? would have been named for HMS Victory of Adm Nelson fame ?

edit ( dang spell checker)

[saint of m]

Besides enemy bombardments, what sort of dangers would a terrain ship face in space?

Solar storms, meteors, space junk/debris, and other dangers that could arise?


The thought comes from a very real danger of fire mariners face today at sea, and es[ecialy for submarines which are in an inclosed space underwater.

Also, what would the ways be used to deal with such dangers?

[Jakelope13]

(...) Some may resent Earth's influence, but most conflicts have been local disputes. Many of the colonies are rivals. The potential war that the Colonial Fleet was founded to prevent was between Yinghuo (the largest Martian nation) and Aldea.

Did the individual nations on the colony worlds develop because of which Earthside nation launched the colonial expedition, or is it more like that the colonies are divided among individual city-states?

And is it only Mars that has nations, like Earth, or have all of the colony worlds been divvied up in the same fashion?

On a separate note, what happens if a Terran ship fires its mass driver weapons at a target and misses? Is there some kind of warhead built into the round that, after a set period of time, detonates, or does the round just... keep on going? I mean, sooner or later, that round is going to smack into something.

[Arioch]

Besides enemy bombardments, what sort of dangers would a terrain ship face in space? Solar storms, meteors, space junk/debris, and other dangers that could arise?

Radiation from the Solar wind or planetary magnetic fields would be a concern, but I think any spacecraft would have to be designed to protect against such radiation; we can do that today, so I don't anticipate it being a problem. Military vessels are probably well-hardened against anything the Sun can put out, and civilian vessels may have "shelters" with extra shielding in which passengers can ride out a solar storm.

Fire is a concern, but I expect most things that make up a spacecraft will be engineered to be flame resistant.

Collision with any object is a serious concern, especially when system transit velocities can be up around 3,000 km/s. Radar detection of debris and proper traffic control will be very important in avoiding collisions.

Did the individual nations on the colony worlds develop because of which Earthside nation launched the colonial expedition, or is it more like that the colonies are divided among individual city-states? And is it only Mars that has nations, like Earth, or have all of the colony worlds been divvied up in the same fashion?

Colonies will be sponsored by a wide variety of entities: Earth nation-states, corporations, private organizations, or private individuals. Some will have strong ties to Earth nations and/or cultures, and some will have no ties at all. Some will be commercial ventures, some will be national attempts at expansion, and some will be attempts at cultural or religious independence by minority groups. In this wild and woolly early phase of colonization, if you have the proper backing, you can go almost anywhere and set up a colony, but it's easiest to do so on one of the four established extra-solar colony planets. All four of these planets each have multiple colonies. Alpha, Proxima and Esperanza are administrated by a TCA Colonial governor, with each colonial settlement being essentially a sovereign nation; almost any unclaimed land can be colonized. The Aldean colonies federated together to form a planetwide government (which is a full TCA member), and so to settle on Aldea you must obtain specific permission from the Aldean government.

On a separate note, what happens if a Terran ship fires its mass driver weapons at a target and misses? Is there some kind of warhead built into the round that, after a set period of time, detonates, or does the round just... keep on going? I mean, sooner or later, that round is going to smack into something.

Later more likely than sooner; a projectile could easily zing around a solar system for years, decades, or even millennia before it was swept up by large mass such as a planet. Or if the round had escape velocity, it might leave the solar system altogether.

Hopefully if there are projectiles launched in an inhabited system, someone will keep track of where they went and whether they present a hazard to navigation. But the vastness of space is such that I don't think it's that much of a worry.

[fredgiblet]

How stable is the political situation on Earth in this timeframe?