Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thread

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Mr.Tucker
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Mr.Tucker »

Alright, I have yet another query: we are told that the Historian representative we meet on the bridge is a ''construct'', AKA a computer program that handles diplomatic missions. Is this AI truly a thinking machine? As in ''hard AI''? If that is so, is it possible for such constructs to man historian ships on their own (with no flesh-and-blood crewmember onboard), thus helping the historians secure their borders and offer aid in the war?

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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Arioch »

Mr.Tucker wrote:Alright, I have yet another query: we are told that the Historian representative we meet on the bridge is a ''construct'', AKA a computer program that handles diplomatic missions. Is this AI truly a thinking machine? As in ''hard AI''? If that is so, is it possible for such constructs to man historian ships on their own (with no flesh-and-blood crewmember onboard), thus helping the historians secure their borders and offer aid in the war?
Whether the Historian constructs are truly sentient or are merely pre-programmed puppets is not known, but they conduct nearly all Historian business with other races. Historian vessels that operate beyond their own borders (mostly small courier-type vessels) are usually completely unmanned.

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junk
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by junk »

In that regard - is there actually any proof of there being a biological race called the historians? Are the Loroi aware of their existance? Or is it possible that those AI constructs are in fact the historians themselves.

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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Arioch »

junk wrote:In that regard - is there actually any proof of there being a biological race called the historians? Are the Loroi aware of their existance? Or is it possible that those AI constructs are in fact the historians themselves.
http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 420#p11420

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Onaiom
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Onaiom »

About the Pipolsid:

How they manage to develop a technological civilization ? Fire is effectively impossible without specialized resources...

They use some sort of "seacrete" (somewhat resembling shellfish shells) in their construcions ?

I presume that they extract metal supplies from the deep sea, in raw form ?

How they interact with the other races ?

How they get in orbit ? Water is heavier than air. Their ships must be small then ?

They use the Loroi for most of their defense ?

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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Karst45 »

Onaiom wrote:About the Pipolsid:

How they manage to develop a technological civilization ? Fire is effectively impossible without specialized resources...

They use some sort of "seacrete" (somewhat resembling shellfish shells) in their construcions ?

I presume that they extract metal supplies from the deep sea, in raw form ?

How they interact with the other races ?

How they get in orbit ? Water is heavier than air. Their ships must be small then ?

They use the Loroi for most of their defense ?
In submarine titan (an awesome game but MP was... annoying) The sea native species have their ship hull silicon based. while the invading human use the titanium.

what i mean to say is; different world different material :P for all we know they could grow "shell" the same way a coral reef are formed

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Onaiom
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Onaiom »

Karst45 wrote:In submarine titan (an awesome game but MP was... annoying) The sea native species have their ship hull silicon based. while the invading human use the titanium.

what i mean to say is; different world different material :P for all we know they could grow "shell" the same way a coral reef are formed
A high-tech culture might select, cultivate or genetically engineer species of coral to grow in a controlled manner. This introduces the possibility of "biotechnological" undersea civilization. But how a culture use hig-tech methods to build a civilization without being high-tech ?

It creates a paradox ...

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dragoongfa
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by dragoongfa »

Onaiom wrote:
Karst45 wrote:In submarine titan (an awesome game but MP was... annoying) The sea native species have their ship hull silicon based. while the invading human use the titanium.

what i mean to say is; different world different material :P for all we know they could grow "shell" the same way a coral reef are formed
A high-tech culture might select, cultivate or genetically engineer species of coral to grow in a controlled manner. This introduces the possibility of "biotechnological" undersea civilization. But how a culture use hig-tech methods to build a civilization without being high-tech ?

It creates a paradox ...
You are thinking within the box, the fact that we had to have to evolve high tech in order to have genetic engineering doesn't mean that a completely alien organism won't somehow have a way to do it naturally to a degree.

In short, what if conscious selecting of offspring traits was possible for an alien organism?

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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Primitive humans have been able to radically alter the physical traits of plants and animals using basic selective breeding techniques. Just look at what people have done with dogs.

Also, if undersea creatures want to smelt something, undersea vents can produce a fair amount of heat.

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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Hālian »

dragoongfa, I think, was referring to an organism being able to consciously select the traits of its own offspring. ;)
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Arioch »

Onaiom wrote:About the Pipolsid:
How they manage to develop a technological civilization ? Fire is effectively impossible without specialized resources...
They use some sort of "seacrete" (somewhat resembling shellfish shells) in their construcions ?
The early Pipolsid civilization developed extensive aquaculture methods, domesticating marine organisms that secrete calcium carbonate, and later sophisticated polymers. So yes, many of their early tools and structures were made from seashell material. They developed mechanical power and electricity (driven by current or wave action) without mastering fire or metallurgy. Most early metal technologies wouldn't have been much use underwater, so they would have had to progress through the equivalent of the industrial age through the use of carbonates and polymers.
Onaiom wrote:I presume that they extract metal supplies from the deep sea, in raw form ?
I guess it depends on the metal. I think in any oxygen-rich environment, the metals rust out of the seawater and collect in deposits on the sea floor. So they'll probably have to mine for any metals they need.
Onaiom wrote:How they interact with the other races ?
They have to use mechanical translators similar to the ones the Umiak use.
Onaiom wrote:How they get in orbit ? Water is heavier than air. Their ships must be small then ?
This would make the crew sections more massive, but even so at this tech level I doubt the crew accounts for a major portion of the mass of a ship.
Onaiom wrote:They use the Loroi for most of their defense ?
Yes, but so do all of the Union members, since they aren't allowed to have their own star fleets.

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Onaiom
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Onaiom »

About the Delrias:

How they lose the war against the Loroi ?

"Subjugated Population" means that there are Sorion armies occupying Kabel's major population centers ?

There is a Delrias space or the Loroi stripped them from their colonies ?

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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Arioch »

Onaiom wrote:About the Delrias: How they lose the war against the Loroi ?
The Loroi defeated the Delrias star fleet in a series of space battles, and then invaded and occupied the planets under Delrias control.
Onaiom wrote:"Subjugated Population" means that there are Sorion armies occupying Kabel's major population centers ? There is a Delrias space or the Loroi stripped them from their colonies ?
There are Loroi military bases on all of the Delrias worlds, and each world is technically under an occupation government administrated by a Loroi military governor, but the Loroi keep a low profile and allow the Delrias to do pretty much whatever they want as long as they don't rise up in revolt.

There's more about Delrias occupation status here.

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Onaiom
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Onaiom »

About the Nibiren:

The Loroi built a colony in Halli and discovered a pre-industrial species. They never thought about giving (or trading) the colony to the Barsam, so they can uplift the Nibiren ?

The Loroi call them "farmers" (or "diggers"), the Barsam see that as an insult ?

They also use the Nibiren as farmers, but Halli ecosystem don't have Soia-Liron organisms. So the Loroi can eat non-Soia-Liron food ?

The Loroi even do somenthing to help the Nibiren ?

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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Arioch »

Onaiom wrote:About the Nibiren: The Loroi built a colony in Halli and discovered a pre-industrial species. They never thought about giving (or trading) the colony to the Barsam, so they can uplift the Nibiren ?
The Loroi don't seem like the sort who are in the habit of giving away colonies to their rivals just to be nice. The Barsam, as full members of the Union, have unfettered access to Halli, and so can do all the uplifting they like.
Onaiom wrote:The Loroi call them "farmers" (or "diggers"), the Barsam see that as an insult ?
Why would it be an insult? The Barsam had to teach the Nibiren to farm; it's an advanced skill as far as they're concerned.
Onaiom wrote:They also use the Nibiren as farmers, but Halli ecosystem don't have Soia-Liron organisms. So the Loroi can eat non-Soia-Liron food ? The Loroi even do somenthing to help the Nibiren ?
The Loroi can eat non-Soia-Liron food (Perrein has almost exclusively non-Soia-Liron food items), but farming was introduced to the Nibiren by the Barsam, and so some of what they produce probably is Soia-Liron and intended for sale to the Loroi colonists.

The Loroi mostly leave the Nibiren alone; they don't see that the Nibiren need any "help;" they're living in their own naturally evolved culture. The Barsam have been trying to modernize the Nibiren, teaching them new techniques and giving them medicines and items of technology (and the ability to trade farm produce for these modern items and supplies). The Barsam see this as helping (which they believe is their duty), but some might see it as interference with and even destruction of a native culture. Guess it depends on your point of view.

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Grayhome
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Grayhome »

There are Loroi military bases on all of the Delrias worlds, and each world is technically under an occupation government administrated by a Loroi military governor, but the Loroi keep a low profile and allow the Delrias to do pretty much whatever they want as long as they don't rise up in revolt.
*click link*
Subjugated Population: Delrias
The five Delrias star systems are still under Loroi occupation, and so each is ruled by a Loroi military governor appointed by the Loroi Emperor. After the Second Mannadi War, in recognition of the contributions of the Delrias to the war effort, an act of the Union Assembly granted formal Union citizenship to all Delrias individuals and authorized locally-determined native governments, but this was largely a symbolic gesture. Each Delrias system has its own native government and sends a delegate to the Union Assembly, but these delegates have no votes, and the Delrias local governments are legally subordinate to the Loroi military administration. By tradition, the Loroi officials keep a low profile and leave most local decisions to native authorities, but the Loroi reserve the right to take any action that is deemed necessary, and that includes suppressing native movements for nationalism or independence. Loroi intelligence agents routinely "remove" any Delrias leaders who openly challenge Loroi rule or privately plot against it. As you might expect, the telepathic Loroi are very effective at this.

The Delrias are proud, aggressive, and bombastic; to speak to one, you might get the impression that she was not aware that her people had lost a war. Prior to the Loroi war, the Delrias had a clan-based warrior culture in which physical conflict between factions and individuals was common. The quick subjugation of the proud Delrias war machine by the Loroi shook this warrior culture to its core, and a bloody and chaotic civil war followed. However, once the fires were extinguished, the Delrias continued on almost as if the Loroi war had never happened. The clan-based culture of conflict continues, though now through political and business channels instead of overtly military ones. The Delrias still resolve disputes through physical intimidation and sometimes outright violence. The periodic Loroi assassinations of Delrias nationalist leaders might generate more local outrage were it not for the fact that lethal conflicts between individuals and groups are still legal in most Delrias jurisdictions. For the most part, the Delrias seem content to fight amongst themselves.
Jebus on Pogo stick how the HECK did this species service the nuclear age. Are there very many species like this? These people seem psychotically insane.

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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by dragoongfa »

Bear in mind that we humans got so many nukes (enough to permanently destroy our habitats) because of the MAD stratagem, which dictates that if both sides are dead no one wins and no one starts a war that they can't win. However if the US decided to use atomic weapons aggressively before the USSR got one working then there would be no use for the MAD stratagem and the world can take several nuclear explosions with ease so we would still be here, although several cities would be erased from the map.

I doubt that an aggressive species will feel a need to stockpile large amounts of weapons in order not to use them, especially if no one else has them.

I suspect that when someone got the first nuke ready they used it in a war of conquest that would unify their species under a single banner.

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Grayhome
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Grayhome »

You know what? after learning more about the crazies that the Loroi have been fighting all these centuries, I can understand why they did what they did to Alex during his initial contact. I take back the bad things I've been posting about the Loroi.

... I still hope Alex reads Tempo the riot act for letting him rot in that cell after recognizing him as a diplomat though, mind you.

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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

I'm not sure that an aggressive species would necessarily use nukes as soon as they got them. They could have a strong sense of tradition that keeps their aggression roughly at a personal scale, or they may be so aggressive that they never build up stable alliances that necessitate weapons of mass destruction. If their aggression is hot enough and quick tempered enough, they might tend to resolve their differences before they have a chance to set up more cold-blooded designs. If they really like fighting, they might have personal preferences about how best to tear someone else apart.

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Grayhome
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Re: Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thre

Post by Grayhome »

I'm not sure that an aggressive species would necessarily use nukes as soon as they got them. They could have a strong sense of tradition that keeps their aggression roughly at a personal scale, or they may be so aggressive that they never build up stable alliances that necessitate weapons of mass destruction. If their aggression is hot enough and quick tempered enough, they might tend to resolve their differences before they have a chance to set up more cold-blooded designs. If they really like fighting, they might have personal preferences about how best to tear someone else apart.
Hmmm, that's a good point, you may be right. Weapons which allow you to be far away from your opponent might not be seen as particularly honorable.

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