Miscellaneous Umiak/misc. races question-and-answer thread

[gaerzi]

With their tech level, I'd expect smart paints that can dynamically change their hue, through electrochromic or magnetochromic processes. It's something we already have, just not at the level where it could reliably be used plated on military armor.

[Mk_C]

With their tech level, I'd expect smart paints that can dynamically change their hue, through electrochromic or magnetochromic processes. It's something we already have, just not at the level where it could reliably be used plated on military armor.

They could have such optical camo hardies for stealth ops, but it's rather obvious that the K-CHUNK boarders are anything but stealthy or subtle enough to bother with stuff like that .

[dragoongfa]

With their tech level, I'd expect smart paints that can dynamically change their hue, through electrochromic or magnetochromic processes. It's something we already have, just not at the level where it could reliably be used plated on military armor.

This is a really bad idea in a combat situation as the camo would suddenly start flaring up in various EM sensors, worse with some finely tuned electromagnetic emissions one could actively interfere with the camo paint and turn it into an easily identifiable target.

[GeoModder]

The good old KISS-principle.

[Bamax]

With their tech level, I'd expect smart paints that can dynamically change their hue, through electrochromic or magnetochromic processes. It's something we already have, just not at the level where it could reliably be used plated on military armor.

This is a really bad idea in a combat situation as the camo would suddenly start flaring up in various EM sensors, worse with some finely tuned electromagnetic emissions one could actively interfere with the camo paint and turn it into an easily identifiable target.

Reminds of the short scifi story Superiority.

http://www.mayofamily.com/RLM/txt_Clark ... ority.html

A short but ultimately hilarious read. I enjoyed it.

I suppose neither the Loroi or the Umiak design and deploy high tech to the nth degree without thorough testing, but I am betting some Outsider race probably does LOL.

In the story one faction does it so much they lose despite winning at first.

[Cthulhu]

Not sure if it's the right thread to post this question, but anyway:
1. What tech level would FTL weapons begin at?
2. What about active cloaking, something along the lines of MoO2-style phase cloak or a similar device.

[Arioch]

Not sure if it's the right thread to post this question, but anyway:
1. What tech level would FTL weapons begin at?
2. What about active cloaking, something along the lines of MoO2-style phase cloak or a similar device.

There can't be FTL weapons, unless you mean something like a torpedo that has enough power to jump on its own. That would probably be TL12.

"Active cloaking" would mean you somehow completely mask your heat signature, which is a difficult proposition in space. Either you collect all your heat from escaping (which is problematic), or you only block your heat in the direction of the target you want to be invisible to, and blast it out in the other direction. I'm not sure how either of these things would be accomplished, so I wouldn't put a tech level label on it.

Practical stealth means radiating as little heat as possible, and this is a sliding scale. Developing a reactionless drive at TL12 is a big advantage here.

[Cthulhu]

There can't be FTL weapons, unless you mean something like a torpedo that has enough power to jump on its own. That would probably be TL12.

Well, I mean generally carry out an attack at FTL speeds. This can be an actual FTL beam (phaser), a jump-capable torpedo, a "Perry Rhodan"-style transform cannon that jumps/teleports some sort of ordnance into/nearby an enemy ship or even an amplifier/enchancer to carry out a telekinetic attack.

"Active cloaking" would mean you somehow completely mask your heat signature, which is a difficult proposition in space. Either you collect all your heat from escaping (which is problematic), or you only block your heat in the direction of the target you want to be invisible to, and blast it out in the other direction. I'm not sure how either of these things would be accomplished, so I wouldn't put a tech level label on it.

That's what I mean by a phasing cloak like in MoO2. Normally, there's no true stealth in space, unless one posesses the tech to hide the universe from the ship by stowing it away in a different/pocket dimension or suspending it in sub/hyperspace. Or would that be "sufficiently advanced magic"?

[Arioch]

There can't be FTL weapons, unless you mean something like a torpedo that has enough power to jump on its own. That would probably be TL12.

Well, I mean generally carry out an attack at FTL speeds. This can be an actual FTL beam (phaser), a jump-capable torpedo, a "Perry Rhodan"-style transform cannon that jumps/teleports some sort of ordnance into/nearby an enemy ship or even an amplifier/enchancer to carry out a telekinetic attack.

"Active cloaking" would mean you somehow completely mask your heat signature, which is a difficult proposition in space. Either you collect all your heat from escaping (which is problematic), or you only block your heat in the direction of the target you want to be invisible to, and blast it out in the other direction. I'm not sure how either of these things would be accomplished, so I wouldn't put a tech level label on it.

That's what I mean by a phasing cloak like in MoO2. Normally, there's no true stealth in space, unless one posesses the tech to hide the universe from the ship by stowing it away in a different/pocket dimension or suspending it in sub/hyperspace. Or would that be "sufficiently advanced magic"?

In this setting it's very difficult to slip in and out of hyperspace at will, so these aren't abilities that fall within the scope of what I imagine for the factions in this universe. So I don't have an answer for you.

[Ithekro]

Being able to slip in and out of hyperspace, or a least some other parallel dimension without really traveling far relative to the target, would be a suitable form of stealth. Can't see what is not in realspace. Dimensional submarines at that point.

[Arioch]

Being able to slip in and out of hyperspace, or a least some other parallel dimension without really traveling far relative to the target, would be a suitable form of stealth. Can't see what is not in realspace. Dimensional submarines at that point.

[Bamax]

Being able to slip in and out of hyperspace, or a least some other parallel dimension without really traveling far relative to the target, would be a suitable form of stealth. Can't see what is not in realspace. Dimensional submarines at that point.

Shadows in babylon 5 did that all the time. The only reason they did not wipe out the lower races was because that was never their goal.

Evolution to stronger and stronger levels through chaos for the lower races was.

[Cthulhu]

In this setting it's very difficult to slip in and out of hyperspace at will, so these aren't abilities that fall within the scope of what I imagine for the factions in this universe. So I don't have an answer for you.

No, that's actually a sufficient answer withhin my expectations. After all, a phasing cloak was a highest tier tech in MoO2 and also not a particulalrly popular one except for a few highly specialized ship templates. Maybe even the Soia did not posess it and even if they did, it was lost along with their civilization. Unless their remnants are hiding like the Shadows... probably not, it would make no sense.

I guess I need to try a different approach for a fanfic, even though a "Captain Nemo" scenario would have been interesting.

What about FTL weapons, or would those also be out of scope?

[Arioch]

What about FTL weapons, or would those also be out of scope?

FTL travel in real-space is not possible, as far as we know, and so fictional FTL travel requires leaving our space and entering hyperspace. The rules I've set up for hyperspace restrict the conditions under which you can pop in and out of hyperspace, and how well you can navigate (if at all) within hyperspace. Whether these rules are absolute or merely a restriction of technology is, in-universe, still a matter for speculation.

The normal rules specify that if you have enough energy, you can break the "surface tension" of real-space and propel yourself into hyperspace, but it requires a greater-than-or-equal-to mass to pull you back out. So even if your torpedo had ungodly levels of power, there's still no (known) way to make it travel through hyperspace to the target and then somehow reappear in normal space to attack the target. Whether these rules can be broken even in theory is unknown to the "major combatants," and so not a question that I can answer.

[Krulle]

From what I understood (and thus imagine) for the Outsiderverse,
the jump drive unloads the energy needed to break surface tension.
the direction is your vector on the gravity well, and the "distance" jumped in hyperspace is the amount of energy the jump drive offloaded.

Hence you need to know sufficient about the gravity well of your target to be able to land on the gravity slope.

SpoilerShow

https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/imag ... fejump.gif

Now, the Insider article about FTL technology states, that the travel within HyperSpace happens "(nearly) instantaneously".
(re-iterated in the bullet point list:

• The energy cost to jump is up-front, and the ship is ballistic while in hyperspace. It's like a cannon-shot.
• The jump is nearly instantaneous, so there is not much you can do while in hyperspace.
• Since it is moving faster than light, the ship is blind while in hyperspace.

Well, now we come to the point where great AI's may be a boon:
Are the physics of Outsiderverse restricting to pure "ballistic" moves, or is that the result of an incomplete understanding of HyperSpace physics by the main combatants?
E.g. if the Historians understood HyperSpace physics MUCH better, would they be able to build a drive that can affect the ship while in Hyperspace (e.g. a second drive unit that only works in HyperSpace)?

(Because the implications of a very fast computer being able to steer the ship while in HyperSpace may mean a lot: adjustments of unsafe jumps, changing trajectory, creating "soft landing" on the HyperSpace/RealSpace surface anywhere, no matter the gravity gradient, ...)

The main problem would be that interaction HS/RS is visible from RS, but the short time in HS simply makes experimentation difficult, and if it goes wrong, the RS scientists will never know what went wrong (machinery defect, actually working but ship "ran aground" on the re-entry border of RS/HS, machinery working but effect on ship miscalculated and ship stranded in HS, machinery working, but influencing energy supply of ship leading to fatal destruction, ...), and thus gaining further understanding of HS may be very expensive (a ship of a certain minimum mass every time), and frustrating (loosing many ships to whatever dangers of exotic physics). [gaining the necessary knowledge through confirmative experimentation may be very expensive to near impossible]

But IF you can make it work, well, bad luck for any of your enemies.


Regarding ships being "blind": I imagine electromagnetic radiation from our RealSpace will simply not translate to HyperSpace. And that in HyperSpace RS is simply not observable due to lack of the electromagnetic radiation from RS. The gravity will likely be the only thing from RS that _may_ be observable in HS (since the border between the dimensions is influenced by the gravity wells of RealSpace).

[Ithekro]

The only way I see experimentation being possible in hyperspace would be to know enough about the hyperspace locations of realspace gravity wells to intentionally plan a jump that is outside the regular distances possible with the current understanding that is within one's own territory (so that you can have a ship there to receive it). At that point one can hope the AI and whatever tech you are working on can boost the ship in hyperspace enough to correct for local gravity wells, and push the jump to a farther known destination. If the ship arrives, than you may have something to work with. If it does not, you have potentially wasted a lot of resources on a fool's errand. There is a chance that the ship will reach someplace, but if it is not a star in your territory, or one the ship's crew or AI can navigate back from, given enough normal jumps...you will never know. Or at least not until such time as your sphere of influence extends to wherever the lost ship went.

[CrimsonFALKE]

What do the Hardtroops eat do they simply recharge in a wall socket?

[dragoongfa]

What do the Hardtroops eat do they simply recharge in a wall socket?

Their electronic parts probably have a rechargeable and easily exchangeable battery pack. Their fleshy parts, that would depend what they found best; either they kept their internal digestive track (tongues, stomachs, intestines and etc) and thus have some sort of a hidden mechanized mouth or they completely removed the digestive system and supply their needs intravenously.

The former is far better in terms of logistics as they will eat the same food as every other Umiak and would allow them to feed off the land in case of logistical problems. The later would allow them to be active on the battlefield for extended periods of time without issue as they would simply insert a fresh 'nutri pack' in their system in a few seconds whenever required and be able to keep going for far longer than if they kept their digestive systems and their requirements for sustenance, however this would require an uninterrupted supply chain for the specially prepared 'nutri packs'.

[Arioch]

What do the Hardtroops eat do they simply recharge in a wall socket?

[Gudo]

FTL travel in real-space is not possible, as far as we know...

Current understandings of physics suggest it may be plausible IRL. The Alcubierre drive is a concept for an IRL FTL drive developed in the early 90s that is compatible with Einstein's work. The drive functions by compressing real space in front of the craft and expanding real space behind the craft. While the craft does not actually travel faster than light in it's local reference frame, it can complete a journey through the space it distorts faster than light could if the space was undistorted.

It seems clear that tech like that isn't used in Outsider though, and there seems to be three in-universe possible explanations.
1) The drive is not actually physically possible. Perhaps it is invalidated by some grand unified theory, or other later physics discoveries.
2) The drive is possible, but not constructible at the current tech level. It might require the manipulation of dark energy, which is beyond TL10.
3) The drive is both possible and constructible, but impractical. Maybe the energy requirements are simply too great to send worthwhile amounts of mass, or the ship may not be controllable once traveling in distorted space, or any other number of possible wrinkles could be true.