Page 3 of 4
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:03 am
by Bamax
Arioch wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:35 am
Demarquis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:43 am
I still suspect that she could have surrendered, and then been rescued before the Umiak could remove her from the ship... assuming the current operation goes successfully.
I think you underestimate both the effectiveness and the brutality of Umiak interrogation techniques.
And perhaps overestimate the Loroi estimation of their own chances of success.
Attention to detail here will not be in a space elf's favor.
Death by suicide is preferable to whatever the Umiak would do.
Since they are known for being overly thorough... meaning if they intend to torture you for information... you will wish you had died long before you actually do and just say anything to make it stop.
But that would not necessarily work because if the Umiak are not satisfied the torture would continue.
I know Umiak do have a concept of mercy... all civilzations do, but until they get what they want or until the prisoner becomes worthless for that the torture would continue.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:14 am
by gaerzi
Demarquis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:43 am
I still suspect that she could have surrendered, and then been rescued before the Umiak could remove her from the ship... assuming the current operation goes successfully.
Cloud's literal suicide mission was a deception operation. The aim was to hide the presence of the rest of the crew by letting the Umiak believe she was the sole person on board.
Not committing suicide would have endangered this, even without bringing in Umiak interrogation techniques. I'm sure that by now, they're used to Loroi crew preferring death over capture. Deviation from this pattern would have induced increased scrutiny.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 11:16 am
by CrimsonFALKE
Arioch wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:32 pm
- Tempo arranges a series of cascading failures which culminates in a blowout
- Before triggering it, she rushes through the crew quarters messing up all their beds
- 50% of the crew lose consciousness and die from hypoxia while manically trying to make their beds
High end OCD is the leading cause of crustaceans.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:34 pm
by Snoofman
gaerzi wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:14 am
Demarquis wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:43 am
I still suspect that she could have surrendered, and then been rescued before the Umiak could remove her from the ship... assuming the current operation goes successfully.
Cloud's literal suicide mission was a deception operation. The aim was to hide the presence of the rest of the crew by letting the Umiak believe she was the sole person on board.
Not committing suicide would have endangered this, even without bringing in Umiak interrogation techniques. I'm sure that by now, they're used to Loroi crew preferring death over capture. Deviation from this pattern would have induced increased scrutiny.
We have thus far seen the loroi in a positive light. But do you think we will eventually see their more ruthless qualities?
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:40 pm
by spacewhale
Snoofman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:34 pm
But do you think we will eventually see their more ruthless qualities?
Our boy gets psychically tortured for information, and it's implied that he could have been spaced at the whims of an insane commander with Vegeta hair. There will probably be some space-puppy kicking to come.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:29 am
by Moon Moth
Snoofman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:34 pm
We have thus far seen the loroi in a positive light. But do you think we will eventually see their more ruthless qualities?
I am eagerly waiting until our merry crew joins up with the Barsam and Neridi on the
Prophet's Reason, and we get to hear what they think about the Loroi.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:31 pm
by Cthulhu
spacewhale wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:40 pm
Our boy gets psychically tortured for information, and it's implied that he could have been spaced at the whims of an insane commander with Vegeta hair. There will probably be some space-puppy kicking to come.
You forgot about the possibility of gruesome
experiments, aiming to see how this artifice actually works. I mean, everything's fine as long as it is possible to patch this pink alien man-thing back up?
Snoofman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:34 pm
We have thus far seen the loroi in a positive light.
Positive? Tempo words this in a very nice way, but essentially, it's "
join or die".
Snoofman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 10, 2022 12:34 pm
But do you think we will eventually see their more ruthless qualities?
Like two xenocides? Maybe, after seeing the "cloaking device" up close, they may decide that a third one is in order.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 7:26 am
by Snoofman
Cthulhu wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:31 pm
Positive? Tempo words this in a very nice way, but essentially, it's "
join or die".
Positive.........ish?
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:19 pm
by Demarquis
If Umiak interrogation techniques invariables work successfully within minutes of capture, the Loroi should have lost long ago.
Though I suppose *both* sides might possess this capability.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:32 am
by Arioch
Demarquis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 21, 2022 10:19 pm
If Umiak interrogation techniques invariables work successfully within minutes of capture, the Loroi should have lost long ago.
The time elapsed between pages 204 and 217 was something like four to six hours. That's a long time to allow oneself to be tortured, whether or not you end up giving up any relevant information in that time. And if the Loroi assault fails...
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:42 am
by CrimsonFALKE
What do the umiak do for torture?
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:18 am
by Bamax
CrimsonFALKE wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:42 am
What do the umiak do for torture?
There are a limited number of ways to torture without killing, but that still leaves an awful lot of ways.
Going medieval on someone is a popular phrase for unmitigated brutality.
Think about it.
You really don't want it to go further than this.
Hint: Look at the table.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JrBdYmStZJ4
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:01 am
by QuakeIV
Yeah I don't know if its a great idea to bet that the people stuck on the shuttle, who will desperately try to board the umiak ship due to having no choice, will definitely win and rescue you.
Seems like from our perspective its obviously got to succeed for the plot to more forward, but thats not necessarily that great of a bet if you don't realize you are in a narrative.
fastedit: To be honest, it would actually be an interesting twist if the attempt fails and this is how Jardin gets introduced to the umiak (seems like its not really going that direction though, bunch of fairly developed characters that will presumably all die in that event, plus there has been a fair bit of setup to explain why they have what they need for the attempt to succeed).
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:27 am
by Bamax
QuakeIV wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:01 am
Yeah I don't know if its a great idea to bet that the people stuck on the shuttle, who will desperately try to board the umiak ship due to having no choice, will definitely win and rescue you.
Seems like from our perspective its obviously got to succeed for the plot to more forward, but thats not necessarily that great of a bet if you don't realize you are in a narrative.
fastedit: To be honest, it would actually be an interesting twist if the attempt fails and this is how Jardin gets introduced to the umiak (seems like its not really going that direction though, bunch of fairly developed characters that will presumably all die in that event, plus there has been a fair bit of setup to explain why they have what they need for the attempt to succeed).
Arioch prefers that his heroes earn their victories rather than rely on deus ex machina or unforseen occurence to save them.
He stated as much in his comment about how the lord of the rings movies final battles seemed... like too easy of victories.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:38 am
by QuakeIV
I'm not saying that, I'm saying I think that the conclusion to date that Cloud totally shouldn't of committed suicide is based on information could does not have. In other words I accuse people of applying narrative reasoning to the situation and expecting the character to act based off of it. I proclaim to you that from cloud's perspective, the outcome was uncertain and the chance of failure high.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:10 pm
by CrimsonFALKE
Bamax wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:18 am
CrimsonFALKE wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:42 am
What do the umiak do for torture?
There are a limited number of ways to torture without killing, but that still leaves an awful lot of ways.
Going medieval on someone is a popular phrase for unmitigated brutality.
Think about it.
You really don't want it to go further than this.
Hint: Look at the table.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JrBdYmStZJ4
I would think the shells would be crueler than the Matrix machines. Although torture to a psychic race would have to be way more than just an old iron lady.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:38 pm
by G. Janssen
CrimsonFALKE wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:42 am
What do the umiak do for torture?
They make you listen to Umiak opera.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:20 pm
by avatar576
CrimsonFALKE wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:10 pm
Bamax wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:18 am
CrimsonFALKE wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:42 am
What do the umiak do for torture?
There are a limited number of ways to torture without killing, but that still leaves an awful lot of ways.
Going medieval on someone is a popular phrase for unmitigated brutality.
Think about it.
You really don't want it to go further than this.
Hint: Look at the table.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JrBdYmStZJ4
I would think the shells would be crueler than the Matrix machines. Although torture to a psychic race would have to be way more than just an old iron lady.
I get the impression it's more like a combination of
Unit 731 and
Tuol Sleng/S-21. Brutal experimentation that is partly to try and figure out Loroi plumbing and wiring, partly to terrorize the populace, and partly "just for fun." Of course, however brutal it might be, propaganda and the telling and retelling of eyewitness accounts will only add to the terror.
<<You remember Seren?>>
<<Yes.>>
<<It'd be like that, but
worse.>>
And keep in mind, there is a survivor of the Seren genocide on board the shuttle. No doubt she has told some of the younger Loroi some...stories.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:11 pm
by raistlin34
G. Janssen wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:38 pm
CrimsonFALKE wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:42 am
What do the umiak do for torture?
They make you listen to Umiak opera.
Until they discover human Internet, that is.
Re: Page 218: The Volunteer
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:55 pm
by G. Janssen
raistlin34 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:11 pm
G. Janssen wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:38 pm
CrimsonFALKE wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:42 am
What do the umiak do for torture?
They make you listen to Umiak opera.
Until they discover human Internet, that is.
The internet and televised detergent commercials are why there's a Fermi paradox.