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Gyrojet Pistol 
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Post Gyrojet Pistol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98c2t_uK5Uo


Reliability and accuracy problems aside, the loading and firing mechanism is laughable.

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Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:55 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
I love that thing, such a hilarious weapon. Though I think I recall reading about how such concepts were considered for an astronaut gun.


Last edited by NuclearIceCream on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:32 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
NuclearIceCream wrote:
I love that thing, such a hilarious weapon. Though it is an interesting concept for an astronaut gun.

Maybe, except normal guns work in space. All the oxidiser they need is already there in the bullets.

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Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:40 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
RedDwarfIV wrote:
Maybe, except normal guns work in space. All the oxidiser they need is already there in the bullets.


Yeah but most guns have a good amount of recoil. My understanding was that these gyrojet gun had very little.


Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
hi hi

That gyrojet pistol and its rifle counterpart were pretty much the only gyrojets ever mass produced. As a first generation weapon of its type, I'd say it was respectable. I would imagine that a second or third generation gyrojet weapon would have been more reliable.

Normal bullets work in space, but that's not to say that normal guns would necessarily work in space. Complicated gas operated actions may have issues with the greater pressure differential, vacuum would make many common lubricants boil off, extreme cold followed by high temperature firing might crack important components, and a lack of radiators would make overheating an issue with repeated firing.


Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:16 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
Makes sense now.

Although when exactly an astronaut would need a sidearm whilst on EVA, I have no idea.

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Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:57 am
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
At the time it was designed they probably made some good innovations but that does still have a lot of issues. If they were going to design a gyrojet round these days it would be done differently and probably within other industry standards. I do know that you can get gyrojet rounds for a standard 12 gauge shotgun for example, though they aren't common.


Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:36 am
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
Weren't those Gyrojet rounds in fact small rockets instead of conventional bullets?

The Soviets however, build those guns for their Cosmonauts: Link and a picture.
Ever heard of those, too?

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Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:24 am
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
RedDwarfIV wrote:
Although when exactly an astronaut would need a sidearm whilst on EVA, I have no idea.

I don't either, but this pistol would be useless even in that situation. It has a 6-round non-removable magazine, and no bullet catch; it must be loaded manually and the spring will eject the bullets unless you hold them in with your finger; if you just open the breech, all the bullets are ejected. Trying to load it or clear a jam while wearing spacesuit gloves would be next to impossible.

Those problems are specific to the gun/launcher, but the fatal flaws are inherent to the ammunition and really couldn't be overcome. Because the bullet has a muzzle velocity of only about 10 feet per second, any movement of the gun while firing or wind near the gun will have a much larger impact on the bullet's trajectory than a high-velocity bullet, making it inherently less accurate than a conventional gun. Also because of the low muzzle velocity, the rocket projectile needs about 8 feet to build up lethal velocity, making it useless at very close range.

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Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:18 am
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
RedDwarfIV wrote:
Although when exactly an astronaut would need a sidearm whilst on EVA, I have no idea.


When the Cosmonauts showed up to fight them of course.


Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:08 am
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
On our stations ("Almaz" program) was used space modifications of NR-23 gun.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... cannon.jpg
Gun TP-82 included in rescue kit of Soyuz ships.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... -TP-82.jpg


Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:28 am
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
RedDwarfIV wrote:
Makes sense now.

Although when exactly an astronaut would need a sidearm whilst on EVA, I have no idea.


think back during the cold war and the space race between USSR and and USA and you may have a reason to carry a side arm that could work in space.


Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:01 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
Karst45 wrote:
RedDwarfIV wrote:
Makes sense now.

Although when exactly an astronaut would need a sidearm whilst on EVA, I have no idea.


think back during the cold war and the space race between USSR and and USA and you may have a reason to carry a side arm that could work in space.


Exactly. Though I think a better astronaut gun would be one the astronaut couldn't drop.


Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:05 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
NuclearIceCream wrote:
Karst45 wrote:
RedDwarfIV wrote:
Makes sense now.

Although when exactly an astronaut would need a sidearm whilst on EVA, I have no idea.


think back during the cold war and the space race between USSR and and USA and you may have a reason to carry a side arm that could work in space.


Exactly. Though I think a better astronaut gun would be one the astronaut couldn't drop.


sometime simple weapon are more effective than complex one. for example an sling shot or if we look at similar environment, Harpon. may be only a one or 2 shot but still should make quite a lots of damage once it hit.

Actually i wonder, if you were in orbit at ISS altitude and were to shoot a crowbow bolt retrograde. would it deorbit? now i want to shoot satellite with a crowbow!


Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:36 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
Karst45 wrote:
Actually i wonder, if you were in orbit at ISS altitude and were to shoot a crowbow bolt retrograde. would it deorbit? now i want to shoot satellite with a crowbow!

It would just fall into a lower orbit... unless it was an unimaginably powerful crossbow. ISS orbital velocity is 7700 m/s, while a typical crossbow bolt is about 90 m/s.

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Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:41 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
a buddy of mine had this strange idea, gyrojet is not exactly stupid really, but you need some space age tech and out of the box thinking for it to shine....
gyrojet smart missile sniper rifle....mini missiles, could have a effective range of.....several km, and guided it would not have the 'target moves after shot is fired' problem.
the biggest problem really was thinking too short ranged.


Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:14 am
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
discord wrote:
a buddy of mine had this strange idea, gyrojet is not exactly stupid really, but you need some space age tech and out of the box thinking for it to shine....
gyrojet smart missile sniper rifle....mini missiles, could have a effective range of.....several km, and guided it would not have the 'target moves after shot is fired' problem.
the biggest problem really was thinking too short ranged.


well... at this point you better have laser guided rocket no?


Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
Guidance would probably be provided by fins or a rolling-airframe thruster, so you could have a conventional bullet be guided just as easily as a rocket bullet. The rocket bullet might have slightly longer range and do slightly more kinetic damage than a conventional bullet (because the velocity peaks during flight rather than at the moment of firing, but I doubt that would overcome the reliability advantage of the conventional method of firing a bullet.

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Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:43 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
If youre willing to throw conventional thinking out the window, you could use a standard explosive propellent in the barrel with a rocket assisted sabot on exit. Overly complex for the actual intended use... sounds perfect someone call Congress.

More seriously, there is no reason to use something as complicated as a rocket pistol, or rifle for that matter. Its a neat gadget, but its a hanger not a banger.


Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:58 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
hi hi

A rocket pistol is really no more or less complicated than a conventional gun. The gyrojet pistol here is actually significantly less complicated than most modern handguns, with a breech loaded internal magazine and a single action trigger. The ammunition is still simply primer, powder and projectile.

The gyrojet was not a "banger," because it was relatively quiet to fire. The rockets made a faint hissing sound, but nothing even close to the bang of a conventional gun.


Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:21 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
Pardon, the hanger/banger description might be a bit niche. Its meant as wall hanger versus shooter, something to look at or a conversation piece rather than a working weapon. Standard firearms are described this way, with wall hangers usually either being faulty from use or poor design. Its nothing to do with the sound itself per se. A weapon with a built in silencer would still qualify as a "banger" if it functioned well.

Any rocket projectile is more complicated in actual use than it looks on paper. First up is the cost to put lead down range. One cannot understate how important cheap ammo is if you want practice time. Then there are the basic issues covered above; dead zone close in, wild variance due to windage or unsteady grip etc. all complicated by the lack of practice. A standard firearm is a simple point and click interface out to a hundred or so yards. Past that some small measure of hold over is required to combat bullet drop.

Conversely, sitting behind my desk within arms reach I have a spam can of $0.22 a round Cold War 7.62x54r for my 1943 Mosin-Nagant that works right as rain. Berdan primed ammunition like that will outlive transuranics. Just sight and shoot. And that matters. Big time. People stay away from manufacturers with reputations for unreliability, like Hi-Point or Cobra. Its the reason revolvers are still made at all, too many things can go wrong with an automatic. For a carry weapon, a proper side arm, you need to trust it will work just by pointing and pulling. Anywhere, anytime, any reason.


Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:55 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
hi hi

I would posit that if history had gone differently, we could be having this conversation in reverse. The infrastructure exists for conventional weapons, pretty much by definition. Just because Betamax was superior to VHS, doesn't mean it was destined to be used, and just because the F-22 is an incredible piece of technology doesn't mean that it is going to proliferate. It is best not to conflate logistical arguments with technical arguments.


Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:27 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
Rocket ammo is technically complicated, which means the logistics are always going to fall one way.


Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:39 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
hi hi

With proper machining, there really isn't a significant difference. In fact, there are bullets today that are more complex than the gyrojet's mini rocket. Some of them are a lot more complex.


Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Gyrojet Pistol
Now Now. Thats not exactly apples to apples is it. You can do similar things with guided munitions and rockets, with similar added costs, complexities, failure rates etc. The proper machining, propellents, quality control levels will always favor the simpler bullet.


Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:20 pm
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