Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

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Mr.Tucker
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Mr.Tucker »

What's funny is that by the time those ships or projectiles reach their intended target systems the war could be long over :) .

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junk
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by junk »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

Mr. Tucker, that figure also includes labor and bureaucracy, just like the 450 million per launch figure. It is beginning to look like some of the Umiak's greatest industrial achievements may have been in cutting down the costs of labor and bureaucracy.

At least the Umiak don't build torpedoes that go out, drop a payload, then come back to pick up another. (I know their engine is their payload, but still...) ;)

15% and 30% does seem like a pretty significant difference. Perhaps that is also part of why the Loroi don't see very many Umiak super-heavies on the offensive?
Another thing to consider - similar to stuff like jet fighters or warships is the cost of RnD. Generally the more of something you build, the lower the per unit costs.
a) you can standardise component creation and actually mass produced some
b) your per unit cost comes down as you spread the RnD cost around. Which is for instance why the f35 seems to fluctuate so wildly in price.

Sweforce
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Sweforce »

I have been lurking about a few days and finally registered.

So what can we offer the Loroi? Certainly not military power, I seen so many contrived suggestions about how the Terran warships can be of use but look at it like this, there is a military use for crossbows even today but they see only an very limited use for very special situations. It is a waste of time looking for those special situations.

Sure the railguns are powerful but they are only useful for orbital bombardment really, short of assisting in some mopping up operation or suppressing rebellions on overtaxed, overworked member worlds in the empire I see no use for this and most likely, the Loroi already use their own obsolete ships for these kind of missions.

What we can contribute with are logistic support, especially if we keep our slow fusion engines so we do not use up precisions anti matter fuel. Any anti matter fuel on Terran ships would be cargo. Further considering everything needed to produce a Loroi warship I suspect we can contribute with some parts, even if it's just nuts and bolts.

Still I suspect we better concentrate on other wares like consumer goods. 25 years of war must be straining on the populations patience and they need their new washing machines, Barsam dolls and coffee. Anything to help keep peoples spirits up. Entertainment in the form of reality tv shows, flashy Hollywood productions and dirty magazines.

And finally, the security implication of a telepathically inactive people are immense. No risk that we overhear things we are not supposed to overhear and we are not going to accidentally spread what we do know just by thinking about it. This makes us the perfect clerks really. Weed out the sleep talkers and we are all set keeping secret what needs to be kept secret.

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Mr.Tucker
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Mr.Tucker »

Sweforce wrote:And finally, the security implication of a telepathically inactive people are immense. No risk that we overhear things we are not supposed to overhear and we are not going to accidentally spread what we do know just by thinking about it. This makes us the perfect clerks really. Weed out the sleep talkers and we are all set keeping secret what needs to be kept secret.
Why would humans be better at that than the Barsam or Neridi? It's not like these species can read minds as well. Only the Loroi can do that. I also HIGHLY doubt the Loroi would allow a telepathically UNSCRUTABLE species to fill such roles in their society. While not beligerently xenophobic, they do seem passively so. I think trust issues will be major for Loroi-TCA relations.

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icekatze
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Humans would be better than a Barsam or Neridi in those regards, because another Loroi cannot walk up and probe their minds to find out what their boss has been saying.

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Mr.Tucker
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Mr.Tucker »

But they can just walk around the boss himself for that.

EDIT: At least that's how I understand it. I might be blissfully missing something :oops:

Sweforce
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Sweforce »

Mr.Tucker wrote:But they can just walk around the boss himself for that.

EDIT: At least that's how I understand it. I might be blissfully missing something :oops:
There will be a security apparatus around the boss and in really sensitive cases, the boss will be someone that have been trained to mask her/his thoughts. Do it right and those guards will be human to and thus unscannable. Beside a human may be neutral regarding internal Loroi politics, thus human mercenaries can be useful in the same way that the Byzantine empire hired vikings for some sensitive guard duty.

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Mr.Tucker
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Mr.Tucker »

Sweforce wrote:
Mr.Tucker wrote:But they can just walk around the boss himself for that.

EDIT: At least that's how I understand it. I might be blissfully missing something :oops:
There will be a security apparatus around the boss and in really sensitive cases, the boss will be someone that have been trained to mask her/his thoughts. Do it right and those guards will be human to and thus unscannable. Beside a human may be neutral regarding internal Loroi politics, thus human mercenaries can be useful in the same way that the Byzantine empire hired vikings for some sensitive guard duty.
Some points to consider:
1)if the boss can hide his thoughts, the security details would not know anything either. Guards are there to guard. On Earth, human bodyguards are not really told anything high level that they don't need to know to do their jobs. The Loroi are different, since the guards may hear the boss' thoughts. If the boss has lotai, the guards hear nothing. No use scanning them. If the boss doesn't, ANYONE around can hear them (with range depending on telepathic sensitivity). And the boss WILL be close to his direct subordinates at times ( analogy: the president's bodyguards don't stop the secretary of state from meeting him).
2)The Byzantine Emperors used the varangian guards because they were trustworthy (and the Loroi DO NOT TRUST anything they can't mind-probe), and because they were better fighters than court guards. Human soldiers are in no way, shape, or form superior to the Unsheathed.
3)Trust again. The Loroi have a reputation or being somewhat xenophobic. Not belligerently xenophobic, but still uneasy around other sentients. They're not gonna seed their administration and bureaucracy with unscannable aliens they've barely met.

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dragoongfa
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by dragoongfa »

Mr.Tucker wrote: 2)The Byzantine Emperors used the varangian guards because they were trustworthy (and the Loroi DO NOT TRUST anything they can't mind-probe), and because they were better fighters than court guards. Human soldiers are in no way, shape, or form superior to the Unsheathed.
3)Trust again. The Loroi have a reputation or being somewhat xenophobic. Not belligerently xenophobic, but still uneasy around other sentients. They're not gonna seed their administration and bureaucracy with unscannable aliens they've barely met.
Unless they realize how absurdly easy it is to gain the loyalty of human males :P

Of course that goes both ways but you can't have everything :P

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Mr.Tucker
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Mr.Tucker »

dragoongfa wrote:Unless they realize how absurdly easy it is to gain the loyalty of human males

Of course that goes both ways but you can't have everything
Observing reactions on these forums, and using advanced techniques and equations of statistical extrapolation, I've concluded that the TCA is doomed......

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dragoongfa
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by dragoongfa »

Mr.Tucker wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:Unless they realize how absurdly easy it is to gain the loyalty of human males

Of course that goes both ways but you can't have everything
Observing reactions on these forums, and using advanced techniques and equations of statistical extrapolation, I've concluded that the TCA is doomed......
We never had much chance did we ? :lol:

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Razor One
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Razor One »

dragoongfa wrote:
Mr.Tucker wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:Unless they realize how absurdly easy it is to gain the loyalty of human males

Of course that goes both ways but you can't have everything
Observing reactions on these forums, and using advanced techniques and equations of statistical extrapolation, I've concluded that the TCA is doomed......
We never had much chance did we ? :lol:
Conquest changes the conqueror as much as the conquered though. :P

"We surrender!"

"But we come in peace, humans!"

"We don't care, we surrender!"

"Um, okay?"

The human tears his shirt off.

"We are prepared to become a servile species. One question though."

"What?"

"Your ratio of females to males is 8:1, yes?"

"Yes?"

"And the males of your species require regular... accommodation?"

"Yes..."

"Hooray for servitude!"

"What are you doing?"

"Flexing my muscles."

"You look strange and disgusting. Stop that."

"But..."

"No, continue, I find his proportions fascinating."

"Sister!"

"Now now, this alongside a delicacy called 'chocolate' has me rather enamoured with this new and servile race."

"But..."

"And by inducting them fully into the Loroi Union as a junior member we've effectively increased the ratio of males to females from 8:1 to 3:1."

"T-three to one you say?"

"Stop biting your lip, sister."

"Sh-Shut up! And pass that chocolate!"
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Mr.Tucker
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Mr.Tucker »

Quod erat demonstrandum! :D

(runs off into the distance)

Sweforce
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Sweforce »

Our military history may bring some useful insights that the Loroi themsef may have missed. Military advisers can thus be of use bringing another point of view to the table. I also suggest an in deep cooperation with the scout corps. Accurate starmaps with jumpzones are useful. I also suggest a modern version of the U2 program. A specially constructed spy vessel with excellent jump drive to allow for jumps far into a system. Really powerful acceleration of 40 of more g's and large fuel tanks and sensor packages. Skip weapons, armour and shields and just dive into enemy systems taking pictures and leave before interceptors can catch up. If it is suspected that the Uniak somehow have acquired their own faarsers, then use human crews exclusively. Besides I suspect that humans are more tolerant of cramped conditions then the loroi prefer on their own vessels.

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Cy83r
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Cy83r »

You suspect? ;)

Sweforce
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Re: Speculation: What can Humaniti offer the Loroi?

Post by Sweforce »

Once it become obvious that the Soia used humans as their basic blueprint for the loroi doctrine will have to change. Basically the barsams are right or at least less wrong. Anyway, there may actually be some ancient soia artifacts in our solar system. We need to start looking. With a bit of luck we may even find out that Ceres isn't really a planetoid/asteroid.

If there is a risk that that loroi space may be overrun by the umiak's, there may be a need for backup colonies way away from loroi union space. There may be a suitable world in the human sphere of influence ore on the other side of it.

Edit: fixed some spelling errors and expanded the post somewhat.

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