Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

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dragoongfa
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Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by dragoongfa »

Now, this is both an observation and a lead in to a couple of questions towards Arioch.

The greatest comic artists have a saying: Don't tell when you can show. I have to say that the comic does a great deal of showing.

Let's start with the beginning of of Chapter 1 where Alex wakes up screaming at page 19. The first reaction we see is from Fireblade and her expression coupled with the body language is a mix of surprise and confidence. Meanwhile the other Loroi in the room are a mix shock and fear, especially Beryl who may have quickly moved herself behind Fireblade for protection. All of the Loroi must have screamed WTF? in Sanzai at that point.

At page 20 we see Fireblade looking sideways towards Beryl taking an expression of mockery towards the fear of the others, undoubtedly reminding them that Alex is restrained in Sanzai speak. In the third panel Fireblade stares at Alex with a somewhat threatening expression, probably reassuring Beryl in Sanzai as Beryl speaks to Alex.

At Page 21 in the second panel Beryl's body language is still weary but has a small degree of confidence. I love the expressions at panel 4 between Beryl and Fireblade, the whole panel screams that their exchange in Sanzai is something along the lines of 'You got to be kidding me'.

Now I believe that the next big show is with the first introduction of Still-Storm at page 22, her whole demeanour screams of confidence and authority, with some hints of cold heartedness. It's a great first introduction but something feels off with the way she commands her guard to stand at the door. The gesture of pointing at the ground is very human, that gesture of 'stay here' is something that a human would easily understand but the Loroi have Sanzai, that gesture is somewhat extravagant unless of course Sanzai has similar limitation to spoken speech in which case too many words spoken in Sanzai would be cacophonus and given what was happening in the med bay it's easy to guess that there were a lot of Sanzai speaking going around. Giving an order through gesturing would be better in such a case.

To finish this, let's jump to page 25 when the order to mind probe Alex is given. Beryl looks back with regret as if saying goodbye; Fireblade is composing herself while the purple haired unseathed has a particularly determined expression. Stillstorm is of course angry in this page but in page 26 when we see her back we do see a degree of tension on her (unless I am imagining it). All of the above of course pass the message that what was about to happen would be nasty but the details are making me ask this:

If this mind probe happened at a non human would it be lethal to the recipient?

The medics leaving the room, the expressions of everyone, the tension on Still-storm's back, even the expression of resignation Fireblade had in the first panel of page 27. Did Stillstorm order the Unsheathed to kill Alex in order to get answers?

If this is true then the Unseathed are far more dangerous since they can fry someone's brain if they touch that someone's head. If true this also gives an other meaning to the psychokinetic incident at the lift, a subtle reminder to Alex that she can still kill him with her brain, after failing to kill him before. The fact that she is unarmed would also be an addition to this, as in passing the message to Alex and other Loroi that she doesn't need a weapon to take care of him.

Of course all of the above are my suppositions and the real question I wanted to ask after thinking all of the above is this:

Alex was able to read part of the above situation because humans have the inherent capability to subconsciously do a partial cold read of other humans. Loroi have the same expressions as humans but their Sazai ability allows them to quickly read the moods and feelings of other nearby Loroi, they never needed to develop cold reading for themselves. The diplomat caste may have some cold reading tricks since they regularly speak with aliens but are those tricks to the same level to human trained cold readers?

If true the Loroi are at a disadvantage in their interactions with humans since their expressions would be read easily and their inability to read the expressions of humans would put them way behind in future negotiations. In short, do humans have it easier to bluff Loroi than other humans?

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Siber
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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by Siber »

The fact that they look at each other's faces when conversing suggests to me that they have some ability to read body language, though I'd definitely expect their diplomats and spies to be better at it than your average commando.

I also doubt that the mind probe was expected to be lethal, but it seems like it might be equatable to torture. That fits the behavior of the Loroi as well, as far as I can tell.
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Mr.Tucker
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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by Mr.Tucker »

They seem similar to humans, so they probably have the same range of body language as humans do (even if most of their communication is mental) . They probably would have a lot harder time bantering, bulling or cowing us into submission because the're not USED to not being able to read their counterparts minds. More of a psychological disadvantage than a physiological one.

Also remember that in a comic-book most of the storytelling is visual, so expressions may be exacerbated :D

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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

I figured that the Loroi performing the mind probe didn't actually care, one way or another, how Alex felt. I don't think they were trying to torture him, but I didn't get the impression that they were very concerned about not causing him distress. I figured they were just putting all their efforts on breaking through whatever mental block he had in place, cooperation not required.

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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by Mr.Tucker »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

I figured that the Loroi performing the mind probe didn't actually care, one way or another, how Alex felt. I don't think they were trying to torture him, but I didn't get the impression that they were very concerned about not causing him distress. I figured they were just putting all their efforts on breaking through whatever mental block he had in place, cooperation not required.
I'd guess it was more like getting the answers without his permission. It may be that they didn't even expect it to be painful. We don't know how such an intervention might affect other species. Perhaps a Barsam wouldn't even notice his mind was being probed, but a human's apparent natural resistance would offer (painful) opposition. Kinda like how a hypothetical space-squid would try to bend a human arm without taking bones into account.

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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by Arioch »

The Loroi are a visual people and body language is an important element of communication to them, as it is to us. It's often redundant with telepathic communication, but it's also largely redundant with spoken communication, and that doesn't stop some humans from "talking with their hands." The Loroi can read such cues about as well as we can (otherwise, such physical communication would have no use), so I wouldn't say that Alex has much of an advantage in that area. The Loroi generally make little effort to hide their feelings, and so a human actor with fine control over his mannerisms might have an advantage; but as he admits himself, Alex hasn't got much of a poker face. But it's true that their inability to telepathically read Alex puts the Loroi ill at ease.
dragoongfa wrote:If this mind probe happened at a non human would it be lethal to the recipient? The medics leaving the room, the expressions of everyone, the tension on Still-storm's back, even the expression of resignation Fireblade had in the first panel of page 27. Did Stillstorm order the Unsheathed to kill Alex in order to get answers?
No, telepathic probes are generally not physically harmful. However, the Loroi were already aware that they were having trouble reading Alex, and so when Alex refused to answer questions, Stillstorm left the three Teidar with instructions to break through his resistance, using any means necessary -- including telepathic and telekinetic pressure. As has been mentioned, this is tantamount to torture, and so there was some apprehension in the room, and everyone but the three Teidar was ordered out. Alex's subsequent convulsions and inability to breathe were not telepathic effects, but the result of telekinetic pressure. He eventually blacked out from lack of oxygen; this was, in essence, telekinetic waterboarding.
dragoongfa wrote:If this is true then the Unseathed are far more dangerous since they can fry someone's brain if they touch that someone's head. If true this also gives an other meaning to the psychokinetic incident at the lift, a subtle reminder to Alex that she can still kill him with her brain, after failing to kill him before. The fact that she is unarmed would also be an addition to this, as in passing the message to Alex and other Loroi that she doesn't need a weapon to take care of him.
Fireblade has telekinetic power sufficient to exert almost a ton of force; she could kill Alex at any moment she wished by crushing his skull like an overripe peach.

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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by dragoongfa »

Arioch wrote:The Loroi are a visual people and body language is an important element of communication to them, as it is to us. It's often redundant with telepathic communication, but it's also largely redundant with spoken communication, and that doesn't stop some humans from "talking with their hands." The Loroi can read such cues about as well as we can (otherwise, such physical communication would have no use), so I wouldn't say that Alex has much of an advantage in that area. The Loroi generally make little effort to hide their feelings, and so a human actor with fine control over his mannerisms might have an advantage; but as he admits himself, Alex hasn't got much of a poker face. But it's true that their inability to telepathically read Alex puts the Loroi ill at ease.
Makes sense, although I would really like to see Alex get a better Poker Face just to troll certain people a little better.
No, telepathic probes are generally not physically harmful. However, the Loroi were already aware that they were having trouble reading Alex, and so when Alex refused to answer questions, Stillstorm left the three Teidar with instructions to break through his resistance, using any means necessary -- including telepathic and telekinetic pressure. As has been mentioned, this is tantamount to torture, and so there was some apprehension in the room, and everyone but the three Teidar was ordered out. Alex's subsequent convulsions and inability to breathe were not telepathic effects, but the result of telekinetic pressure. He eventually blacked out from lack of oxygen; this was, in essence, telekinetic waterboarding.
Makes sense and you even answered a question I would ask later: 'how fine is their telekinetic control'.
Fireblade has telekinetic power sufficient to exert almost a ton of force; she could kill Alex at any moment she wished by crushing his skull like an overripe peach.
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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by sunphoenix »

Arioch wrote: No, telepathic probes are generally not physically harmful. However, the Loroi were already aware that they were having trouble reading Alex, and so when Alex refused to answer questions, Stillstorm left the three Teidar with instructions to break through his resistance, using any means necessary -- including telepathic and telekinetic pressure. As has been mentioned, this is tantamount to torture, and so there was some apprehension in the room, and everyone but the three Teidar was ordered out. Alex's subsequent convulsions and inability to breathe were not telepathic effects, but the result of telekinetic pressure. He eventually blacked out from lack of oxygen; this was, in essence, telekinetic waterboarding.
OHHHH! Now that explains a lot! Thanks for that insight Arioch! Was always wondering about that reaction... I had thought the telepathic probe was somehow causing a neural muscular seizure somehow!
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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by fredgiblet »

dragoongfa wrote:Makes sense and you even answered a question I would ask later: 'how fine is their telekinetic control'.
Variable. Fireblade for instance can certainly lift herself quite easily, but trying to fly would have a result similar to Tony Stark's first attempts with the Mk 2 Iron Man suit. Other loroi (Mothwing IIRC?) have the power AND control necessary to lift themselves and actually properly direct their motion.

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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by Karst45 »

fredgiblet wrote:Variable. Fireblade for instance can certainly lift herself quite easily, but trying to fly would have a result similar to Tony Stark's first attempts with the Mk 2 Iron Man suit
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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by cacambo43 »

Fascinating information about body language and the Loroi! But I wonder how much we are seeing what we want to in the artwork. *I* have maintained that while Fireblade at times looks annoyed regarding Alex, I see concern in her expression a lot too and not a lot of ill-will (despite his sarcasm and baiting).

*shrug*

I guess we'll see SHORTLY (RIGHT, ARIOCH??? ;) )

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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by fredgiblet »

Pretty sure I've said before that I think that Fireblade is less hostile to Alex than she appears to be and that most of it is just her doing her job. I expect that once Alex is cleared by the diplomats and no longer needs a guard they will [probably get along better.

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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by sochnedo »

As has been mentioned, this is tantamount to torture, and so there was some apprehension in the room, and everyone but the three Teidar was ordered out. Alex's subsequent convulsions and inability to breathe were not telepathic effects, but the result of telekinetic pressure. He eventually blacked out from lack of oxygen; this was, in essence, telekinetic waterboarding.???

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Re: Reading Loroi Expressions and Cold reading the Loroi

Post by Zakharra »

sochnedo wrote:As has been mentioned, this is tantamount to torture, and so there was some apprehension in the room, and everyone but the three Teidar was ordered out. Alex's subsequent convulsions and inability to breathe were not telepathic effects, but the result of telekinetic pressure. He eventually blacked out from lack of oxygen; this was, in essence, telekinetic waterboarding.???

Telekinetic pressure out on his chest and stomach (and maybe the throat too). He probably literally could not breath, so he passed out and they relaxed the pressure so the automatic breathing system could work.

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