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VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's 
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Post VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
Arioch, man, you're killing me here- give me a number, an estimate, weekly, monthly, yearly, daily, rough or otherwise; what do I need to pay you to get my Outsider fix on a schedule (a dependable one)?


Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:43 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
do not bloody jinx it! we wait patiently on this forum, by the way historically asking for deadlines or other more classic methods of pressuring(aka whining) arioch have created more delays in the past, so just DO NOT!

the pages will get there when they get there, just be happy that they WILL get there, eventually.


Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:37 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
Discord, shush.

It better not be Valve Time.

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Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:18 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
I only ask if I can... alleviate any... economic stressors to Arioch's pursuit of this comic, this artistic endeavor of his that we all so much enjoy to a great degree, BECAUSE I've been waiting for over a year, I think, since the last update.

I'd rather not be introducing my grandchildren to the start of the second chapter at the rate things are being achieved.

Actually, that's a good question, does Arioch have a patreon or is Arioch willing to submit to the responsibility of a patreon account? Hell, at this point, I'd be happy with a combined time & donation tracker to the next expectation of a page's output based on how much our contributions provide Arioch with time to work on Outsider and free him(?) from normal work cycles.

Seeing as I make about... 350 each week at my factory job, I'd assume that baseline of $1600 a month for... three? four? pages- I'm not really sure where Arioch is at on the background resources and production streamlining of the comic, but as we are, I'd be happy with one page a quarter under the above funding figure until his cgi resources are sufficiently built up and then we could expect a page every two months at a minimum if not a very optimistic page-a-month or even biweekly updates.

If I were to become a dedicated patron, I'd say I could provide 1/16th of the monthly load for that sort of projection, since I'm struggling through a full time job and long-travels to class (I really don't know how people manage more than two or three part-time jobs at once, I'm about ready to terminate as it is), so- regardless, 16 dedicated middle-class podunk patrons could hypothetically support Arioch's art at a very basic level of production. I think we have the equivalent economic resources here, assuming we're all willing to promote his art, not forgetting there's a wider community on the net quite well acquainted with beards on space elves and would no doubt be enthused if not supportive of a production initiative. I mean, shut me up if I'm just lounging in the buzzwords here, but I think I have a point. The principle obstacle to good artists on the net these days is us, the fans, not pushing initiative when we see good work languishing, unkempt, without the support of an incorporated body such as a publishing house or just the disposable income of several investors.

The only other issue would, again, be whether Arioch would be willing, desiring (and able, as picky as employers are these days) to accept the... demands... such support entails for as long as we are able/willing to support the comic's production and for as long as the comic would run.


Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:53 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
cyber: problem there is arioch has a well paying day job that he actually likes(last time i checked) no money problems at all, it is more a time management issue, what fun thing is he going to do now?

if we start complaining this project seems less like fun and more like 'job/duty' which makes it less likely to happen....this is my guesstimate anyway.


Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:09 am
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
The comic updates on Blizzard Time. Blizzard Time includes such terms as Soon, When It's Done, Very Soon (not to be confused with Soon), Soon-ish, etc.

In all seriousness, I'd guess that the primary bottleneck for updates is time, not money, and contrary to the saying, money is not time's equal here. If you can find a way to put more hours into each day, share the secret with Arioch post haste and send it my way too. :P

If I had to guess a potential day for the comic to update though, Monday would seem a surefire bet. It's Arioch's historical update day and it'd be just about two years to the day since the last update. Seems fairly auspicious.

Otherwise, check for an update on Monday's and go on with your life as normal. It's the only healthy response that doesn't descend into nagging for updates.

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Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:01 am
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
Ooooh, alright, I know how that is, needing a time machine to get to everything I don't have the time for. :mrgreen:


Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:49 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
Once upon a time, I worked full-time as a software engineer. I had plenty of money, and it was just a question of allocating free time to work on the comic.

I no longer have that cushy job. Currently I'm trying to get by working as an illustrator and working on the Stars and Shadow game. Money is very tight, and so there are times when I have to work on something that pays rather than working on the comic. This is part of the reason why it's been tough lately on the comic updates. I've gotten past the hurdle of creating the new 3D sets for the shuttle, so that should help. One of the benefits of doing more artwork regularly is that I'm getting better and more reliable with the hand-drawn parts.

So now it's the case that if I can find a way to make the comic pay, at least a little, that could help a lot. I'm looking into setting up a Patreon page, and into what other venues might help. In the meantime, if you want to help out, you can always make a donation from the site via PayPal. Any help will always be appreciated.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:22 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
I'm not sure how the logistics would work out, but I'm probably not the only one that would be willing to buy a physical copy of the prologue and first chapter if you could get it printed for a reasonable price. As far as donations go I'm presently underemployed but I have cash reserves so I'll see what I can do.


Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:33 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
I would buy such a copy, too. As long as the price and shipping fees to europe are not too high.
Sadly, my salary is not very high at the moment, so I can not donate as much as I would like.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:49 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
I think that a 'per page' Patreon is your best bet for the time being, it covers both you, the creator, and the donator since money is exchanged each and every time a new page is up. This ignores a lot of the drama with Patreons that are paid a lot of money but end up producing jack shit. Personally I think that if you can push yourself for semi regular updates that you can partially emulate the success of the Goblins webcomic:

https://www.patreon.com/Goblins

Taking out taxes, Patreon's cut and hoax donations, Thunt gets 2.000$ out of two pages each month. The reason I mention him is that he also came out of a HUGE hiatus recently as well as a Kickstarter project where he was scammed by a person he trusted. It took him a few months to get to this level though.

A printed run of the comic sounds good but it requires a size able up front investment and any potential profits will take some time to arrive.

Donations are also a little tricky, they are unreliable both for the creator (not a steady stream of income) and the donator (not knowing if they get anything for that money).

My advice is to start a Patreon and then try to get regular updates for the comic running.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:11 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
Arioch wrote:
So now it's the case that if I can find a way to make the comic pay, at least a little, that could help a lot. I'm looking into setting up a Patreon page, and into what other venues might help. In the meantime, if you want to help out, you can always make a donation from the site via PayPal. Any help will always be appreciated.


I'd certainly be ready to give some some money.

The fun thing about artwork easily distributable is that the scale economies are monstruous. The more you can achieve a readership, the cheaper it is for you to gain a substantial return; and the cheaper it is for us to read it. For a confortable income of 50K$/year, you'd need to gather people to pay you 4200$ per month.

While a readership in the hundreds is forbidding, gather 4200 people to pay you one dollar a month and you have it fair and square. Your story certainly has potential, as it is graphically gorgeous (to me, at least) and conworldwise highly promising.

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Fri May 01, 2015 1:12 am
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
You know I've never actually LOOKED at Patreon before now, I've heard it mentioned a few times but never checked it out. I'd do $1 per page.


Fri May 01, 2015 2:30 am
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
fredgiblet wrote:
You know I've never actually LOOKED at Patreon before now, I've heard it mentioned a few times but never checked it out. I'd do $1 per page.


One of my favorite artists, plague of gripes, recently did a patreon and is now in his own words successful. To my knowledge he didn't really have a very massive following when he did it either.
If Arioch can get keep a good schedule and we the fans can get him some viewership them I could see a patreon earning him some massive dosh.
Especially if alot of people are willing to part with a dollar every page.


Fri May 01, 2015 12:26 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
THAT is the main problem, and always has been with Outsider. It's a chicken and egg thing, you can't amass a large following without steady updates, but if you have a real job it can be hard to do steady updates without the income of a mass following.


Fri May 01, 2015 12:31 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
Hello, this is from a long time lurker of this forum who has created an account for this sole post after reading these forums for more than a decade.

I love the idea of supporting Arioch on Patreon. I support several of my favorite artist through it and honestly I probably actually check Arioch's site and forums more often than them regardless of his update schedule. I don't think i'm the only one either who finds themselves so dedicated to reading this even after all this time of erratic updates. Outsider fans are probably some of the most dedicated fans I have ever seen seen.


Fri May 01, 2015 1:14 pm
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Post Re: VALVE Time -OR- Late on Valentine's
Hello
I'd also like to voice my support for a patreon donation of about $1 - $2 a month.

Just to give a reality check, don't expect allot of money out of these. There is a webcomic http://freefall.purrsia.com/ that has been going since 1998 and has a large and very loyal fanbase. Only 156 those loyal fans are active patreon doners for a total of of $531.75 per month before taxes and fees (info from clicking the patreon link on the page). Then there are the success stories like Thun's from Goblins as others have mentioned who manages to support himself and help the family income (I think his wife works too) and he's been through all kinds of heck this past year or so.

Personally I don't think Arioch (if your reading this) needs to worry or stress about updates. He's always been very active in the forums and Insider updates which is all the reassurance I need that the comic isn't dead and we (the denizens of the forum) have time and again demonstrated patience. I'm also open to format changes with perhaps a basic picture to convey the setting or action and the mostly text to advance the story which may help reduce workload per comic.

btw, go read Freefall; its a great comic covering the development of AIs and human society....plus the shenanigans of one space-squid and the long suffering but upbeat lupin employee Florance.


Fri May 01, 2015 10:24 pm
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