[Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror (Completed)

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Grayhome
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Grayhome »

Loving these speedily delivered chapters! Awesome work, as always.

Krulle
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Krulle »

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dragoongfa wrote:Chapter 18, part 3

It was obvious that the Mizol’s intended to fully humiliate her. She started by deciding, on her own accord, to give the humans Silverspear’s regenerator and now she was having her be a part of this ‘good will’ charade that she and the human captain came up with. First he would visit Silverspear, as if a Union warship, even at its unsalvageable state, is some short of tourist attraction. Darkwing didn’t like it but it was part of the deal that the Mizol struck with the aliens and as thus she didn’t have any choice on the matter.
Two possible corrections here: "as such", or "thus".... I'll leave it up to you, but "as thus" just sounds.... But that may be my non-native English speaking mind.

[...]

He did have questions though, an endless amount of them as a matter of fact but the Listel answered them all. Their endless jabbering had managed to give Darkwing a headache long before they boarded the human shuttle that would bring her and the Listel to the human ship for her part of the ‘goodwill visits’. She found the whole concept stupid and a waste of everyone’s time considering the circumstances but the human asked for it and since their mission hinged on their goodwill she couldn’t say no. If only he and the Listel would just stop talking.

[...]

“Matveyev arriving!” The Commander bellowed as he offered some short of salute with his right hand and at that moment the sound of a bell ringing four times was clearly heard above the usual noises of an active shuttle bay.

[...]

“Now if you will please follow me, I would like to start your tour by showing you the accommodations that you and your crew will be using while we transport you to the rendezvous point. As a scout ship we don’t have much space but we believe that things will be tolerable for you and your crew.” Captain Asteios said as he gestured them to follow hism down a corridor.

[...]

“Figures…” The human said with a chuckle and paused for thought before continuing. “Matveyev is a family name and I don’t know if it has a meaning in Russian, the language from which it is derived from. The ship itself was named so to honor Arkadiy Matveyev, one of the pioneering Scout Corps explorers. He was a man of few words, who got things done without much fanfare or politicking; an explorer who wanted nothing else than to be in space and uncover its secrets.” He chuckled again at that. “It’s funny but he never believed that he had done enough for the honor of having a ship named after him, so he was a little unconventional at the ship’s christening ceremony. Instead of having a speech written down he just took out a list with all of the noteworthy Matveyevs he could find in the historical archives. There were dozens of names in that list and he went through all of the names and noteworthy thinkgs that they had accomplished. First there was a statesman who was a close confidant to the Russian Emperor and led the Russian Imperial guard, after that it was his son who was the distinguished diplomat who was the reason behind the first instance of state recognized diplomatic immunity. Many warriors, including two pilots that were posthumously granted the title of ‘Hero of the Soviet Union’ for their actions during world war 2, many artists, athletes, artisans and scientists. His name was last and when he finished reading he first looked at the assembled audience and then at the ship before saying ‘This ship is not named Matveyev because of me, it’s named Matveyev because it will be just one more name in this damn list.’”
I like this part very much.
The interaction between the Loroi and Humans, a short show of how different we are culturally.

Thank you, once again.
I hope I will be able to read many more of your stories.

And I personally think, that if Outsider ever gets printed, this story would make a very nice gift to be added as an extra. If by then your elements do not contradict canon elements in an obvious way.

I like your story so much, that I really need to remind myself that some of the elements you used are not canon (yet).
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

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dragoongfa
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by dragoongfa »

Chapter 18, part 4:

As Matveyev approached the jump point Captain Asteios couldn’t get out of his mind the fact that he had forgotten something important but couldn’t figure out what that was. They hadn’t forgotten anyone, all 58 Loroi survivors were aboard and the bodies of Matveyev’s 13 crew members were safely stored in the freezer. The physical evidence of the whole incident had been covered as best as they could in the little time they had available, the Loroi ship was scuttled by its crew who used their remaining antimatter missiles to do so while the Umiak ship had been buried by having all three shuttles divert a number of asteroids in order to cover it; no Umiak would find anything unless they knew exactly where to look at and since they would have to search a few dozen star systems the odds of them finding the ship were astronomically low even if they were able to divert a fleet for the search and rescue of a ship that could have suffered a number of fates; including being lost due to a misjump, the ever present danger of modern star travel.

The equipment they took from the Umiak ship was also safely stowed aboard accompanied by the Loroi regenerator which was part of the deal for taking the survivors to the rendezvous point. Torimor Shadowcloud had also provided the data necessary for them to get to the rendezvous without running into an Umiak ship while she and Listel Sininran Sulfur were busy writing down information about the Loroi Union and the equipment they had taken from the Umiak ship; Shadowcloud had also given them a set of coordinates near the Loroi border for a staged ‘first contact’ in a few months’ time, in case another scout hadn’t made contact already, so it wasn’t that either. Nothing mission related came in mind so he checked the ship's status again.

All systems were green and there was always someone on the lookout for the Umiak malware so it wasn’t that either. He found what he was looking for when he opened up the star charts to double check the data; the automatically assigned alphanumerical name of the system they were still in stuck out like a sore thumb, with the note ‘nothing seems appropriate’ written right below it.
He erased the note and pondered if he should write a temporary name or leave it as is since anything about this mission would be classified to high heaven, including the temporary names for each and every star systems that Matveyev passed through. It was meaningless but he couldn’t help but feel that he should write down something anyway.

Pondering about a name he couldn’t help but remember the instance in which Torimor Shadowcloud realized that humans were predominantly right handed while the Loroi were left handed. She initially got the impression that humans were ambidextrous because of how Lieutenant Allerberger wore his weapon holster on the left side and was dexterous with both hands but the marine was the usual left handed exception and became ambidextrous through training in order to apply for AST training and thus join the TCA Marine Corps.

Inverted but nearly identical, like a mirror image… Can I use that? He thought and simply shrugged since the whole gesture was meaningless to begin with. An unseen weight was lifted from his shoulders as he named the system Mirror before coming up with an explanatory note he thought no one but him and his crew will ever read.

Chapter 19, part 1: http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 950#p22950
Last edited by Guest on Wed Feb 03, 2016 12:58 am, edited 5 times in total.

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dragoongfa
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by dragoongfa »

Chapter 18 is now official done with.

One more chapter plus an epilogue left.

Absalom
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Absalom »

dragoongfa wrote:Drones are the easiest things to spoof with modern Electronic Warfare, the Iranians practically highjacked a state of the art Stealth drone that the Americans were using to spy on them.
If it's the case I'm thinking of, then actually they took advantage of an unencrypted data stream. The recent stuff is semi-autonomous, and they have been paying attention to the security issue.
Siber wrote:What I find improbable is not that evolution can produce novelty, but that they can preserve the novelty while changing out the biochemistry. I've no applicable expertise, but as a fan of sci-fi who has done some reading after being annoyed by how lots of sci-fi treats biotech, it'd be my assumption that any change on that level would probably invalidate important portions of the rest of the genome, and by the time you fixed everything you probably don't have a smaller task than just recreating the desired qualities from scratch elsewhere. And that probably wouldn't make Loroi that look quite so appealing to the human eye.

But that is just my intuition talking mostly.
Soia documentation on the subject is not known to exist, and it is not known when it happened: are you certain that they really preserved what interested them, especially the first time around? There were enough surviving Loroi for three viable populations, they might have been a test run, but they were at least in late beta stage, not alpha.
Tamri wrote:
dragoongfa wrote: "Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates."
- F.E. Adcock, British classical scholar
This statement says only that those who are planning the strategy and fighting do not participate in it themselves, but instead others die.
Actually, the meaning is that choices made on the battlefield by those closest to the action most often decide the course of the battle. This is less true today, but in heavy fighting it is still the truth. You can certainly use troops without autonomy to win wars, but the Soviet experience in WW2 demonstrates that this is not particularly efficient.

Jack
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Jack »

Absalom wrote:You can certainly use troops without autonomy to win wars, but the Soviet experience in WW2 demonstrates that this is not particularly efficient.
Explain your thoughts, please?

Krulle
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Krulle »

SpoilerShow
dragoongfa wrote:Chapter 18, part 4:

[...]

All systems were green and there was always someone on the lookout for the Umiak malware so it wasn’t that either. He found what he was looking for when he opened up the star charts to double check the data; the automatically assigned alphanumerical name sticking out like a sore thumb, with the note ‘nothing seems appropriate’ right below it.
He erased the note and pondered if he should write a temporary name or leave it as is since anything about this mission would be classified to high heaven, including the temporary names for each and every star systems that Matveyev passed through. It was meaningless but he couldn’t help but feel that he should write down something anyway.
Another one I like.
Mirror is an apt name, IMHO.

Again, thank You for sharing!
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

Absalom
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Absalom »

Jack wrote:
Absalom wrote:You can certainly use troops without autonomy to win wars, but the Soviet experience in WW2 demonstrates that this is not particularly efficient.
Explain your thoughts, please?
If soldiers do everything according to orders instead of adapting the orders to the immediate situation, casualties and fatalities rise. It's important for soldiers to obtain the goal of the campaign or battle, but it's equally important that they adapt their techniques to the situation without forcing officers to get involved, since that comes with meaningful time delays, thereby allowing the enemy to take advantage of your army's slow reactions.

This was one of the targets of American planning for wars against the Soviet Union: crippling the Soviet Army by destroying the channels of communication required for Soviet military groups to take action. Correspondingly, the American military at the time (and to some extent probably today too, due to the recent urban combat in Iraq) intentionally attempted to make itself resistant (or even immune if possible) to the same sort of attack, by allocating planning responsibilities for an operation to the same units that the actual operation itself was allocated to.

It also provides a way to give officers training, by giving them experience with all of the levels of combat in sequence.

And yes, I can think of some possible reasons for the use of poorly trained soldiers by the Soviets in WW2: I have read some mention of the poor quality of Russian artillery strikes in WW2 and the reasons behind it, after all.

Jack
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Jack »

Action, right from the point of view of a soldier and the unit may be wrong in terms of the overall strategy.

The US military plans against the Soviet Union began with 200 nuclear bombs in 1946 and 1960 reached 10,000 strategic warheads and one unit of tactical nuclear weapons in every Soviet tank platoon in the Western Group of Forces of the USSR. Then it became clear that our planet is too small for an all-out nuclear war, and all the plans outright war between the US and the Soviet Union after 1970. - ritual dances and "mind games.".

JQBogus
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by JQBogus »

A command culture that is too 'top down' is likely to really reduce or eliminate an army's ability to exploit transient opportunities.

Also, as Absalom was intimating, a military culture that has too much permission seeking is pretty vulnerable to disruptions of its command structure. Can't ask permission, won't do anything.

Jack
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Jack »

Everything has a price. For coherence large forces have to pay.

Do not confuse the subordination, in Russian is a military term, and lack of initiative.

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peragrin
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by peragrin »

JQBogus wrote:A command culture that is too 'top down' is likely to really reduce or eliminate an army's ability to exploit transient opportunities.

Also, as Absalom was intimating, a military culture that has too much permission seeking is pretty vulnerable to disruptions of its command structure. Can't ask permission, won't do anything.
At one point i heard that a USA army lieutenant had more leeway in dealing with and executing orders than an Egyptian Colonel.

The USA military structure is very loose, in fact with drone feeds and live feeds from soldier mounted head cams, generals are having a hard time resisting giving the on the ground commanders live advice.

The very fact that it has been mentioned and they are working on it shows that the USA is going to continue it's independent streak for a while.

Zakharra
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Zakharra »

peragrin wrote:
JQBogus wrote:A command culture that is too 'top down' is likely to really reduce or eliminate an army's ability to exploit transient opportunities.

Also, as Absalom was intimating, a military culture that has too much permission seeking is pretty vulnerable to disruptions of its command structure. Can't ask permission, won't do anything.
At one point i heard that a USA army lieutenant had more leeway in dealing with and executing orders than an Egyptian Colonel.

The USA military structure is very loose, in fact with drone feeds and live feeds from soldier mounted head cams, generals are having a hard time resisting giving the on the ground commanders live advice.

The very fact that it has been mentioned and they are working on it shows that the USA is going to continue it's independent streak for a while.


Yup. Giving the lower ranks (officer and enlisted) some leeway in how they fulfill their orders gives that military a flexibility that is hard to overcome by a more rigid military. The US and other western nations trust their lower officers and enlisted/ non-commissioned officers to do the job at hand within the guidelines. Other militaries are more rigid and don't give their lower ranks that freedom. All of the power and control rests in the hands of the higher ranking officers. That limits those armies quite a bit.

This article =might be a little dated now, but it outlines the problems with some militaries, in this case, Arab ones. http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

Jack
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Jack »

You are confusing the army discipline and subordination, and the lack of initiative among subordinates.

It is known that the Arab modernity turns out badly with the construction of armies. However, Yemeni Huthis quite successful fight against the League of Arab States, despite the fact that the Arabs themselves.

Modern war size limit, they are called "local wars". They are, as a rule, there is no need for a concerted action of a large force. What makes the tactical flexibility to choose the optimal strategy junior officers preferred.

Zakharra
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Zakharra »

Jack wrote:You are confusing the army discipline and subordination, and the lack of initiative among subordinates.

It is known that the Arab modernity turns out badly with the construction of armies. However, Yemeni Huthis quite successful fight against the League of Arab States, despite the fact that the Arabs themselves.

Modern war size limit, they are called "local wars". They are, as a rule, there is no need for a concerted action of a large force. What makes the tactical flexibility to choose the optimal strategy junior officers preferred.

It is all inter-connected and comes into play. It's never just one thing, but having trust in the military, well rounded cross trained soldiers/sailors and airmen and a freedom to work within orders from the bottom to the top and letting the lower ranking officers and enlisted, especially the NCOs have somewhat of a say and be allowed to use their initiative, makes for a superior and well motivated military. Being expected to slavishly follow orders regardless and keeping the lower ranks in the dark harms combat efficiency.

Of course even in the article, there were some exceptions, but with Arab countries, those are the exception, not the rule. The Yemenis Huthis look to be somewhat of an exception. To use another example: if the Arab countries had well trained and competent militaries, Israel wouldn't exist. However Israel has a competent military and more of the nations around them don't.

majorminor
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by majorminor »

There is also the internal issues that influence Arab countries as well, tribal and religious divides. A big complaint that I've heard is a lack of loyalty to the nation as a whole or more loyalty to ones family or tribe, even if that group is in opposition with the national government. Plus there is the issue as to how the military involves itself in the county's operation, such as the deep state in Egypt [removed statement since double checking research showed a messier situation in Iran with economic corruption]. This means that being in the military is a chance at the easy life and people are willing to bribe their way into service and overall general corruption issues related to such activities.

Also as probably stated before, it comes down to how top leadership (civilian and military) runs things and the issues they may face. Concerns for coup should the military be strengthened to a point (historically seen from military coups in Africa, Middle East, South America with and without support foreign support), How security is structured in the region (under full government control or are non government forces such as militias/freedom fighters/terrorists/separatists involved in security), Military history and training regime ( When was the last time they put their forces to a real test in both war and FTXs). There are alot of factors that can influence the abilities of any military force.

Jack
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Jack »

You send the unit to a frontal attack on the enemy, assigning a specific time of the attack. "No, to frontal attack, this is stupid!" - Decides the unit commander. The unit spends time on the bypass and attack the enemy from the rear. That's just the problem of this attack was to draw enemy reserves in this part of the front at the right time. And more effective attack from the rear, carried out later - the main task is not finished.

You tell the unit commander that his task to distract the enemy attack in a strictly called time. Unit again prefers to circumvent the enemy, but now the attack time. However, aviation officer was ordered to conduct a diversionary attack on their own immediately after the attack ground units. And highlight some of its forces to isolate the battlefield. As a result of attack from the rear unit comes under friendly fire of their own aircraft.

In large operations, while there are hundreds of units: ground, air, naval, support, supply. To ensure efficient operation of the joint is only possible implementation of stringent orders.

In small operations against the underdeveloped opponents may use the concept of "common information space of the battlefield." But as the experience of the conflict in Georgia in 2008 and some operations after a major operation in any forward units will fall under the influence of electronic warfare and fall out of the "CIS".

The level of combat capability of the army, and it adopted the concept of order execution - different concepts.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by majorminor »

That is why you inform your sub commanders your intent Jack. If you tell them your mission is to act in a manner that you are directly attacking a hardened position as to influence the enemy's actions, those sub commanders will be more willing to engage and plan their missions and usage of allotted resources to achieve that goal. Straight up telling a platoon/company/battalion commander "attack this hardpoint head-on apply directly to the forehead", don't be surprised to have alot of questions as to why is it being done this way from both your sub commanders but even the ones above you.

Krulle
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Krulle »

The more units participate, the more coordination is necessary.

The less soldiers/commanding officers like their country, the more likely is a coup, and the stricter are the commanding lines and less initiative allowed...
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

JQBogus
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by JQBogus »

Hm.. I posted a reply earlier, but it doesn't seem to have made it to the board.

Well, Majorminor covered part of it, but here's the other:


Could it be that countries that have short term conscription to fill out their ranks tend more toward "top down" command structures? If many/most of your troops have a 2 year obligation* then they're out of there, it might not be very efficient to spend time and effort training them for anything other than the most basic soldier skills of "here's how your weapon works" and "Do as you're told".


*Or less. In 2008, Russia apparently moved to requiring only 1 year of mandatory service. This could be because they're just shifting to a smaller military or it could be that they're shifting to a model that emphasizes retention and broader skills.

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