[Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror (Completed)

[dragoongfa]

It's an assumption people make due to the dangers of childbirth, which is considerable even for modern women while using modern medicine, maternal mortality even today is rampant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maternal_death

In Africa childbirth related deaths range from 10% to 30% of births on some nations. The Stone age being what it is I doubt that the women of the time fared much better than their modern African equivalents.

It's possible that the larger cranium of the Neanderthals wasn't the reason behind their low numbers but if it made childbirth just a bit more dangerous then it would have a quite visible impact on the females chances of surviving birth.

[Absalom]

The tools are a different matter. Homo neaderthalensis existed for at least 100000 years, so their tools developed over time, as one would expect. The last stone tool "culture" they developed is called Chatelperronien and its not too different from the "culture" of homo sapiens living at the same time, called Aurignacien. Not entirely on the same level, but not that far off. But that is a very complicated matter and the asociation of findings between sapiens and neanderthalensis isn't always that easy, because of many reasons (for example soil in caves can get mixed by frost).

Another thing to complicate it is that Neanderthals are suspected to have specialized in thrusting spears, while we specialized in throwing spears. Supposing that it's accurate, this is probably the most significant reason for us being able to maintain a higher population in Neanderthal areas: you're less likely to die from throwing a spear at an elephant, than by thrusting one.

There are many theories why the Neaderthals died out: climat changes, a plague, competition with sapiens, etc... But the one about Neanderthal woman having trouble with childbirth was always the most implausible to me.

Latest theory that I've heard is that we just zerg-rushed them. Supposedly there were just so many of us that as long as we continued into Neanderthal territory, we were guaranteed to eliminate them as long as we either applied pressure on them, or bred with them.

[Krulle]

Or harvested and hunted anything they could've used and needed for food.

We were too similar, up to the point that each European still has some neanderthal genes.

[Arioch]

All non-African modern humans have Neanderthal genes. They didn't really "die out" as much as they were absorbed.

[Tamri]

dragoongfa, Frankly, there are written strange things.

1) If Soya bioconstructs planned to use on the basis of the telepathic mechanism hominids as psionic weapons and support, it is unclear why they concern for physical aspect of power? The most logical to optimize and enhance the resilience of the biology of every negative phenomena within the task, rather than trying to cultivate a universal super-soldier.

2) Provision of loyalty through the control of one of the fundamental aspects of the society in the form of the second half of the reproductive couple? Really!? Species/association can without unnecessary casualties and violations of jewelry to block the only aspect of the newly opened highly developed form, and then bring bioengineered constructs inheriting a distinctive feature of the above type of feature, and either transferred without loss, or even modified (both options involve at least a basic understanding of the mechanisms this work will be more, likely - depth) - cannot provide this kind of loyalty with a more robust and reliable tools such as genetic programming or banal cyber-\bioimplants!? Logics!? - no, have not heard...

3) For bioengineered soldiers within existing theories of life sciences and military theory, require: a) high speed reproduction (natural or replicator); b) limited autonomy (only in the framework of the task); c) the absolute fidelity to the creators (it is clear why); d) the maximum efficiency in the performance of their tasks. Everything else in the design does not matter, since, on the one hand, increases the complexity of the implementation, on the other hand - it is not necessary, because first of all this bioconstructs is military weapons. Tool. Who should have the necessary properties exclusively in the performance of the doctrine rather than a randomly set the properties for prinitsipe "cram everything fit."

4) No one is able to shape the future of the natural evolution. You can estimate "by eye", but exactly - you doesn't. Basically, because it firstly, random, and secondly - greatly depends on the conditions of the surrounding world. In the tundra and desert evolution is scarcely not diametrically opposite roads and to predict changes in environmental factors and their impact on development can be a very small degree of accuracy.

In addition, Loroi ORIGINALLY very much different from people: hemocyanin instead of hemoglobin, a completely different biochemistry, great (from the original sample) appearance and, partly, the structure - apparently, Loroi made by anyone else but the then hominids to operation in the Soya. Perhaps the prototype served as one of the species-creators, and resemblance to modern humans left because of some unknown to us features of the transmission mechanism hominids mentalistik, or due to a lack of understanding of the theory of telepathy, which is why most of the "source" had to endure whole unchanged parts, modifying only that defied understanding.

5) The brain is important not only by cortical and subcortical, but their structure and its functions. Dolphins brain is even larger and more complex ours, but it is mainly engaged in the analysis and interpretation of complex echoes. The development of thinking and the ability to complex social behaviors are a side effect. The fact that older people's brain was simpler - an empirical fact, since the development of how intelligent species, is exponential, and for the further development of the required increase in the complexity of the problems and, respectively, the complexity of thinking. Up to a certain limit, which has already formed an intelligent species capable of developing their own. Given that, according to your theory, the telepathic device was only blocked by external influence, but continued to work, it can be assumed that he also developed running in parallel with the human species, unless in the course of, say, empathy, developed intuition and\or the flexibility of thinking, as side effects . In addition, it is likely that it adapts to work in continuous jamming, in the case of removal of the field will cause a connection to the dynamics of the resonator.

[dragoongfa]

@ Tamri

1) The Soians had several bio-engineered species; three of which are known: The Loroi, the Barsam and the Neridi. The function of the first two is warfare; the Loroi have demonstrated their superior space naval capabilities while the Barsam are obviously monstrous ground fighters. If I had to warrant a guess as to why the Loroi are that much physically weaker than the Barsam, when in fact two Cavemen could theoretically pose a threat to a Barsam; I would say that both species were keeping the other in line. Barsam on Soian ships would keep the Loroi in line while telepathic Loroi and Soians would ensure that the Barsams on the ground would be loyal. If the Barsam marines were equipped with some equipment to combat telepathy they would be golden on the telepathic front but if the Loroi could physically overpower them the Barsam wouldn't be much of an insurance. So having the Loroi be physically weak does make sense in this regard. The only problem would be telekinesis and I doubt that the Soians didn't take measures about it.

2) I don't understand what you are saying. If you are saying that it's improbable that a male or a female would remain loyal for their mate's shake I have to point out the very Human concept of male conscription for the army. The whole concept of conscription is based on the deeply biological inclination that a man's duty is to protect his mother, his wife and his children; to protect one's nation is to protect those and all of the pro-conscription propaganda in the world revolves around the protection of a man's home (thus family) and religion (The Barsam being so religious in favor of the Soians isn't a coincidence imho).

However the Soians would have ample reasons not to trust the Loroi just on this but ask yourself this: Are the Loroi the final product of the Soian experimentation? The Loroi may think so but that doesn't make that belief true. That's where the implant comes in and I am not going to explain my thinking behind that because that's something I will explore in an other story.

3) The Loroi fill the space sailor niche nicely; sailors who are perfectly able to communicate and coordinate with each other with no technological aid, who can identify enemy fleets from interstellar distances and who can actually be used to annihilate advanced telepathic species without destroying their infrastructure. The only thing that the Soians could do to make them 'better' in this sailor aspect would be to find a way to give them a natural predisposition to 3D movement and high tolerance for heavy G movements.

4) Estimates are always guesses and most of the evolutionary work for the anatomically modern human was already done 275000 years ago, in fact the oldest known fossils of anatomically modern humans are 195.000 years old (The Omo remains). In short I believe that the Soians did guess the extremely minor physical changes that happened to humans in that time frame (although the Omo remains were still thick hunter gatherer bones). Most of these changes revolving around the streamlining of our skull and brains and the lowering of the bone density; which are evolutionary attributed to the shift from hunter gatherer to agricultural (tool using) societies. One doesn't need strong bones and as thick skulls when farming while farming tends to provide a far more balanced and steady diet which is what is needed for advancing a species cognitive abilities over many generations.

5) I don't understand your point. No one knows how telepathy in the Outsider universe actually works, the only thing that is certain is that all life leaves out a telepathic signal thus life is inherently linked to telepathy for some reason. The rest is my supposition that all advanced species managed to survive by not breeding their early telepaths while humans did the opposite which is ultimately what led them to be telepathically blinded by the Soians.

[Tamri]

dragoongfa

1) Type of holding at the application level, telepathy and the accompanying abilities without need of physical strength. On the contrary, for greater resistance to high accelerations desired set of parameters for life on planets with higher gravity: low growth, strong bones, endurance and stronger muscles. But not their size and not their weight. Under conditions of increased gravity less weight - the better. Again, if I took something to change in the original anatomy, I have a slightly reduced growth, and corrected the structure of bone and muscle structure and nerve fiber for greater strength - this is quite enough. For mutual control (what a strong psionic heavy infantry is needed as a fifth wheel a cart - until we) would be enough to make Barsam vulnerable to suggestion as an light version for Golim feature. And Loroi sew something like an instinctive respect for the great and horned)) This option would make them even more effective interaction (if there was at least some sense).

2) At this level development of biotechnology, which is actually possible to synthesize any desired your genetic code and jewelry manipulate without causing cascades of unwanted mutations and adverse effects, programming instincts and the creation of implants influencing the psycho-mental state and higher consciousness must already be run and routine industry (simply because without it, these technologies are extremely limited use). And if they are, to lay all the right instincts and a guarantee of loyalty will be much easier and more reliable than to suffer garbage, planning social policy of military type as a lever deterring and guarantor of their loyalty. Not to mention the fact that it is extremely unreliable, and a two-edged lever - today they humbly carry out your commands, and tomorrow without any hesitation hit in the back that would protect themselves from the consequences of your control. To make itself more reliable probability of such an impossible thought.

Barsam may be religious for the same reasons that people - this is another mechanism civilize and contain natural aggression, and it may well be their own invention. And Soya as the object of worship just turned up and conveniently fit into the pantheon. In the end, a lot of people today believe in all sorts of Forerunners, Creators and other nonsense. Why don't the aliens have similar cockroaches, the benefit they even have a decent excuse.

3) I still don't see any reason to shove into their design things that they obviously don't need or even harmful. In this task, in addition to the changes already described, I would also give them a good spatial coordination mechanism (which, in principle, in hominids and so good) and increased telepathy. Dot. All the rest - garbage that for the performance of their tasks is not absolutely necessary.

4) Yeah, but it Soya worked for hominids with 500k-year-old, not 200-300k. The then hominids to modern humans were similar enough remotely. Modification of the terms of technical civilization is quite reasonable, but the chance that they are so guess with physiology and exterior - is low until the statistical error, especially given that they did their "under itself" and therefore personal tastes creators somehow had to impose on design of its mark.

5) What is true? Everything would produce produce signals in the local Limb / Warp and telepaths they are able to catch?)) In this case, any intelligent species must have some psionic potential, like as in the human body can be found virtually all known in the world physical effects, and the presence of some form of telepathy would be quite an ordinary occurrence in highly species, including the possibility of having the rudiments of telepathy in higher animals. And in our observable universe these kinds of reason already two, the second, on the basis of your hypothesis, based on the first. That is, in fact only one species. Ockham says that something is wrong here.

[dragoongfa]

snip

Ok let's start with the easy ones:

4) The fall of the Soians happened 275.000 years ago. The Loroi have no physical evidence whatsoever of existing prior to the fall of the Soians. Whether the fall is a coincidence of the Loroi coming into existence or not is up to the imagination.

5) All living organisms are sensed through telepathy, that's canonical. The Golim have little to no resistance to Loroi telepathy, in fact resistance to telepathy varies greatly to all known species with the Mannadi being particularly hard to detect at range. My supposition and base of the Human Telepathy is that telepathic talent in living species starts manifesting during the transition from animalistic instinct to sentience which is a process that takes millions of years and on itself has ridiculously low odds of happening (Out of all species that we know to have ever existed on Earth we are the only sentient). This transition is already difficult to happen on itself since the brain evolving the necessary cognitive abilities requires that the species that evolves to be a constantly successful predator; telepathy would theoretically help with the success of predators if said predators would manage to keep themselves sane through it. Judging by the way Loroi society is structured to avoid the pitfalls of telepathy it is impossible for highly intelligent animals to thrive with it without going insane or extinct.

As for Ockham's razor: That's the whole point of the theory, that humanity won the telepathic Lottery that the Soians thought impossible.

1) The Loroi have slightly better tolerance to acceleration that humans already, G tolerance is mostly related to bodily fluids and as far as I know to humans the greatest barrier is our blood flow. Unless one manages to create a living organism without blood then any enhancements to bone and muscular mass are moot since such enhanced mass needs more blood to function. One could make the Loroi shorter in order to ease the blood flow but unless the Soians were themselves short they wouldn't see any benefit to have a second super short Soia-Liron species, remember that the Loroi were to act like crew with everything that entails, if the Soians were tall then the Loroi wouldn't be able to fulfill several function on Soian ships.

As for the Barsam being susceptible to telepathy ala Golim, the whole point is to have the Barsam act as physical guardians of the Loroi. The Loroi and Soians would be able to read Barsam thoughts but the Soians would at no point want the Barsam to fall under the spell of the Loroi like the Golim do; they would want the Loroi to be susceptible to telepathy but that is a huge double edged sword.

2) The Loroi don't have any evolutionary garbage on their genetic code and as thus unwanted mutations are extremely unlikely, the Proto Loroi were for all intents and purposes pristine in the regard of their genetic code, subsequent generations 'evolved' but nowhere close to have useless evolutionary garbage which are the driving forces of random mutations in advanced lifeforms; nevermind the fact that all produced Loroi would obviously go through multiple screenings anyway. Canonically the Soians created the entire line of Soia Liron organisms which are all far superior to anything created naturally, for some reason they also created sentient servants, its unknown if these servants were responsible for the fall of the Soians.

I don't believe that you actually took the religious angle seriously. EDIT: I think that the Barsam being obsessed with the Soians is instinctual hence the religion.

3) What is harmful and what is that the Loroi don't need?

For all intents and purposes the Loroi are perfect for interstellar warfighting. They actually fought back an Empire with far greater industrial strength, far greater population and somewhat better technology. Their telepathy doesn't need to be enhanced any further and if I was a Soian I would certainly look for ways to make them less able in interstellar warfighting in order to keep myself sure that I will be able to stop a potential rebellion.

[Tamri]

dragoongfa

4.1) Did you make the assumption that Loroi based on earlier hominids, but not me. If have the same late Neanderthals and Homo erectus - they certainly have much closer to modern humans, both in terms of development and in structure/exterior. In fact, evidence of the existence of certain earlier died along with the empire, so significantly that no one finds out, well, maybe Historians something saved.

5.2) If I understand correctly the Insider, all the organisms in the universe Outsider have some degree of susceptibility to telepathy, allowing them to pinpoint Loroi and interact with them, something like the reflected radar pulses. But there is no mention that every being is a source of mental disturbances. And this is the main thesis of your hypothesis, if I understand correctly. Loroi can be a source, and the other only resonate in the waves emitted by them, each according to their physiology and mentality. Humans can also have an even more powerful flame inside - but it is securely locked within the body, not spread beyond that as a side effect it gives a complete impermeability to Loroi. A similar source can be a very rare mutation or an evolutionary branch - for example, in the world for its history there was choppy, but strong enough psi-field, which some time ago began to wane. Due to it the higher terrestrial organisms formed resist natural mentalistik and most developed form of adaptive and able to develop at a similar capacity for the generation and modulation of this field. The source can be a want, for example, the presence of certain substances in the Earth's crust, and especially terrestrial biology, or radiation of the star due to some impurities coming from outside the kernel.

This formulation fits into both the thesis (hypothesis and Insider) and Occam's razor is held at the specified path you. A statement about the presence of every rational focus psy - no. Stumbling is a razor.

1.3) Stronger bones are necessary to keep the body weight under high g-forces, if the power of the bone is insufficient, they are simply broken or cracked. Stronger muscles and endurance, together with a similar modification of nerve tissue blood supply to solve the problem by themselves (as the heart - is also a muscle, and the brain - nerve tissue, eslicho). They will deform less under load and keep longer overload. Yet it is desirable to make a stronger blood vessels to prevent bleeding during prolonged overloads. Smaller growth is optional, but desirable, since it will lower the center of gravity to reduce the area and bone mass, and muscle mass required to maintain the whole structure in a vertical position. When you save a "high" strength and tolerances reserve will allow with minimal adjustment to significantly increase strength and endurance.

I'm not talking about the complete susceptibility of only increased. Coupled with artificially grafted sympathy from Loroi in which case will be able to quickly and without losses to brake Barsam and inculcate bit of respect and sympathy will not allow this opportunity to grow into a total control over them. In conjunction with the programmed unconditional loyalty of both its creators and actually get the perfect and harmonious combination.

2.4 and 3.5) "Garbage" in this case would be all that would not be helpful to them to effectively perform their tasks. Like trying to increase their muscle mass for physical competition with Barsam, that does not give them significant advantages, but their resistance to worsen congestion and the overall strength of the body, because the weight and the body needs to grow, and the bones and ligaments become stronger not. Another plus for both the subordination of the military kind, will excessive independence and depth of thinking. Their mission - to quickly, accurately and with minimal distortion to follow orders and not to breed philosophy and imagination to include the most inopportune moments. Think in combat - the commander of the task, not a soldier.

What Hi - this is the answer.

[dragoongfa]

I think that the language barrier is a serious detriment to this discussion:

1) I did not say that the Loroi are a 1 to 1 adaptation of early hominids, you asked why the Loroi look identical to humans and I offered the fact that 275.000 years ago our human ancestors were already very much like anatomically modern humans and it would be easy to estimate how the human bone structure would adapt in a tool based technological society and how their brain and skull structure would develop accordingly.

2) You are reading too much into this and you forget the main fact that no one in the Outsider universe is supposed to KNOW how telepathy works, the only ones who truly knew were the Soians. The hard facts that we do know about its workings is that all life is detectable, that telepathy is FTL, that certain all species have varying degrees of susceptibility and that humans are completely immune to it; everything else is Loroi personal interpretation of the phenomenon. To offer an explanation to the inner workings of telepathy is willingly breaking the universe defining fact that telepathy cannot be explained by anyone below the tech level of the Soians. I wanted a plausible explanation that would increase tension in the story, that's what I came up with; I don't believe that it is 'canon' nor I am willing to openly contradict the established Lore and actually break the tension of the story that derives from it. I think that the evolutionary explanation is plausible enough while allowing enough room for the reader to shape things in their mind as they will.

EDIT: Hell, I was uncomfortable with the frequency explanation because of this very issue. Still it doesn't really explain telepathy as much as it adds more questions to it, while still being mostly a Loroi interpretation.

3) Everything you describe falls short on the fact that enhancing all that actually makes the Loroi far more complex, with a slower maturation rate and needing a higher caloric input. Furthermore a modern human will fall unconscious due to blood not reaching their brain long before their bones begin to shatter or even their blood vessels beginning to pop, everything on the human body can withstand more Gs than the brain which just blacks out from low blood flow. Just making the Loroi shorter would add more G tolerance without needing to make the Loroi more expensive but the Soians didn't do that for some reason. Then there is the fact that the Soians don't need an other physically strong species, they already have the Barsam.

EDIT2: This is why the best way to get some extra G tolerance is by using liquid breathing. Beyond the limited blood flow which happens when one changes the direction of the acceleration and thus taking multiple positive and negative Gs of acceleration (see fighter pilots) one has to take into account the lungs as well. Under acceleration the lungs have difficulty processing air due to air itself being rapidly compressed and as thus oxygen isn't properly passed onto the blood. Liquid breathing allows the blood to carry a nominal amount of oxygen at all times regardless of acceleration which means that it will take longer for the pilot to pass out since the little blood that reached the brain carries the proper amount of oxygen for it to keep going. Being fully immersed in water also adds more tolerance but this adds other issues.

In short it would be far better to have the Loroi become amphibious and having them breath in a liquid environment when under heavy acceleration than just enhancing ones muscles and bone mass..

4) The whole concept is to have the two different species police each other, one is a telepathic species that is physically weak but numerous while the other are physical monsters that are non telepaths. Why increase the strength of the telepaths when it is their physical weakness that offers an advantage to their counterweights?

One needs high cognitive abilities and freedom of thought in order to be a warrior, there is absolutely no way to make someone to be smart enough to fight and win wars by themselves and not have then think on their own free will.

[Absalom]

@ Tamri

1) The Soians had several bio-engineered species; three of which are known: The Loroi, the Barsam and the Neridi. The function of the first two is warfare;

Five are apparently known, but two are extinct. And hey, maybe the Neridi were actually a combat species as well, optimized for space ships (Neridi are much smaller). Or maybe Corp of Engineers.

One doesn't need strong bones and as thick skulls when farming while farming tends to provide a far more balanced and steady diet which is what is needed for advancing a species cognitive abilities over many generations.

One note: farming is usually more reliable, but diet is usually superior with the non-agrarians, because they eat more variety. The Barbarians were apparently noticably taller than the Romans for this reason.

[dragoongfa]

One doesn't need strong bones and as thick skulls when farming while farming tends to provide a far more balanced and steady diet which is what is needed for advancing a species cognitive abilities over many generations.

One note: farming is usually more reliable, but diet is usually superior with the non-agrarians, because they eat more variety. The Barbarians were apparently noticably taller than the Romans for this reason.

That is not 100% accurate; the northern 'barbarians' (Goths and etc) also had their own agriculture but had also maintained a distinct hunting mentality which was fueled by the large number of animals on their country side. Northern Europe at the time was rife with elks which are an excellent source of red meat and it was a 'man's job' to hunt and kill the food that would be put on the table; a mentality that is kept even now in Germany, England, Scandinavia and Russia where hunting is still on high esteem.

Southern Europeans (Greeks, Romans, Spaniards) and Mid Easterners didn't have prey animals in such abundance and focused on fulfilling their dietary needs with agricultural products, fishing and the few stocks of herd animals they kept as most of the fertile land was used exclusively for agriculture.

The main dietary differences between the populations was the over abundance of red meat in the north, which is a great source of the proteins needed for muscle and bone growth; on the other hand the main protein source of the south were fishes which are not as good protein suppliers but they do fulfill the protein needs of brain development perfectly.

The recent change of diet in southern europe to favor more red meat is the reason why the population got distinctively taller as well.

[Tamri]

dragoongfa,
The language barrier is there, but obviously in the sense that I can not to you to convey my thought clearly. Your calculations I basically understand properly.

1) Again, the question arises - why? Why Soya do Loroi identical (at least outwardly) to people? Aesthetically? But they aren't people, they have the aesthetic stereotypes of men hardly have anything in common. Functional? Our anatomy and structure is not the most ideal and versatile, to say the least. And in terms of xenophobia, it would be much easier to contemplate someone like them, not to us in the form of hominid 300k-year freshness externally or modern form, not the essence. Not adjust the phenotype, because it is related (somehow) with the mental talent? Spesies, perfectly capable to select and implement the desired characteristics in the finished complex genetic and design intelligent species of high complexity - couldn't adjusted such a trifle? Don't amuse my slippers.

In short, everywhere solid unclear situations on this item.

2) However, we also firmly (well, empirically, at least) know that a strong mind is essentially a kind of source of energy \ waves. Blade on pages 18 and 28, it was perceived as Alex a fiery tangle\silhouette. The rest of Loroi, he could not see because: a) they are far; b) they are weaker mentally and "radiation" are weaker and passes through the field (possible combination with p.(A)); c) at the time they did not try to actively rootle in his mind (standing next to the Marines on page 28, it is also not particularly noticed, though Arioch they could just not show). Based on this hypothesis, people because silencing field in box can be for these waves "blackbody" which doesn't represent anything. It also explains why they are able to "feel" a reasonable distance greater than they can clearly identify - dispersal of the "wave" makes the reflection is too vague for the "receiver." If each species was a source of psi-waves, but only Loroi had a "receiver" - Alex would or obviously did not notice, because otherwise it turns out that its sensitivity of its "receiver" is comparable to that of the "seers", since he them through the field killing someone spotted it, or he would have calmly seen everyone else, regardless of the type.

3) Since, as I said, the muscles will be stronger, and nervous tissue - endurance, heart and lungs can operate at high accelerations, if necessary, creating more pressure in the blood vessels (because of what and they need to be increased strength), and the brain and the nerves will be able to more easily transfer the overload (the brain is essentially the same liquid, not a piece of iron eslicho) and spend more time at oxygen starvation. But it is possible some other compensatory mechanisms to incorporate, if desired. Changes do not have to be fundamental - simply modify existing tipped. Not necessarily all of this will require more machinery of power, especially if you reduce the growth - the volume of the body greatly reduced, so that energy can even fall in comparison with us. To achieve similar results without a fundamental process all of the musculoskeletal system will have to replace the fundamental things - the composition of bones, muscles, the principle of the organization of neurons ...

4) Telepathist , owning psychokinesis, don't need "physical monsters" the word of "all". Why do you need a huge and muscular partner, if you can by thought delete any opponent in a powder? If so needed extras, much more logical to put the drones - they are relatively small and don't lack firepower, and no need to worry that they have do something wrong. And most importantly - they are much cheaper than living soldiers. In all senses.

Practice shows that two and a half World Wars and many conflicts before them, have to be smart only commander, soldiery can be arbitrarily blunt. If only they possessed the necessary skills. And the ability to think about something beyond the orders of the soldiers generally contraindicated!))

[dragoongfa]

snip

I am going to try this again in far more simple terms:

1) Because the story is about genocidal blue female elves who happen to be telepaths. As for a plausible explanation: 275.000 years ago humans looked very much like they do now anatomically as the evolutionary path had more or less reached its end, we would recognize a human from back then and we would also be recognized as humans by them as well.

2) Again, you are looking too much into this and forget the fact that you are not supposed to get a firm answer on how telepathy works. That's a core trope of the story. Fireblade is a very strong telepath who cannot control herself as others do. If she is strong enough to pass through Alex's Lotai when every other Loroi isn't, then that could be explained in a myriad of ways but the best answer that I can give is that she is just that strong. In this fan fic I contemplated adding something similar but I decided otherwise because Fireblade's signature could be down to problematic training. This chapter however does have a minor explanation in regards to what aliens who are touched by Loroi sense.

3) All of these changes require more of everything: greater metabolism, greater food consumption, greater maturation time, greater everything. The Loroi are evidently designed to be mass produced. The reason, whatever it may be, is unknown but their reproduction rate is monstrous. I will repeat again that the Loroi may not be the end product and could just be a stepping stone to the next stage which could include something like what you describe.

4) Very few Loroi are telekinetics and of those few are monsters like Fireblade or Shadowcloud. Few can crush a Barsam to a powder and many are not able to damage internal organs. Because of this those telekinetics are going to the Mizol caste who use them as cloak and dagger specialists. For all intents and purposes the Loroi cannot hope to physically contend with rampaging Barsam backed by Soia weaponry and anti telepathic equipment which is why I assume that the Barsam were to act as Loroi guards as well.

Also, drones can and will be knocked out with electronic warfare; that's why no one on Earth is planning on using them on anyone other than rag tag terrorist groups.

Practice shows that two and a half World Wars and many conflicts before them, have to be smart only commander, soldiery can be arbitrarily blunt. If only they possessed the necessary skills. And the ability to think about something beyond the orders of the soldiers generally contraindicated!))

Are you serious about this?

There is so much wrong to the assumption that a soldier has to be just smart enough to follow orders that I cannot even begin to form an answer. Especially the kind of soldier that has to operate tech heavy equipment.

[Krulle]

With the "dumb soldiers" you have one problem:
they only follow orders.
A good soldier recognises issues and chances, and acts accordingly.
But on a very low level. In the battle at location X.
He simply lacks the information to evaluate whether this local opponent really is worth fightng again, or whether your own majors and generals are the real issue. Or whether he would be better implemented at battle location Y.
For this he must beleve his major, who must believe his general; due to lack of information.
But that the local battle is unwinnable due to the materièl used by the opponent, or due to unexpected other issues, is something that must, as an information, be transported upwards before the soldier can be reassigned for better purposes. Until then his task is to find the gap in the opponents defence. And for that he does need to think.

[Tamri]

dragoongfa
1) How this is about people here!? Whether at our place even though mantises - Loroi on them too would look like? Too much "gladiolus" here. If Soya understood mechanism of telepathy - what to do Loroi humanlike? It is simply not rational, if not stupid. Even primitive robots, we all try to do like himself, and here we are talking about the kind that will be side-by-side with them to fight, perhaps, centuries. Ergonomics where? And if they do not understand - why Loroi did from us are very different, which in the history of the results of preliminary experiments, which ran in the theory and how sideways here and do all the other Loroi in particular, especially if they are only a "stage of the experiment?" One assumption is the other, and none gives a coherent picture than "because gladiolus".

Unless Soya do not like us - then part of the picture becomes clearer, but there is a bunch of new questions.

2) Option, also adjusted: it is not the past for Alex Lotai, but almost burned his brains. In any case, the hypothesis of universal psionic talent is anyway not dock. Because otherwise he could ignore the rest at least when his paw - because the "bridge". People, Loroi, other alien - all. And not just one particular telepath, under specific conditions.

3) The maturation of an organism does not depend on its complexity - only on development mechanisms. But considering the physical parameters of Loroi, unless their digestion and energy storage mechanisms were not recycled overhaul - obviously not the case, and they had used some other principle. Agreed.

4) Nevertheless, a lot of them to form an army of them, and even mediocre amplifiers psychokinesis could turn into a threat. And each of them is in the fight of tens, if not hundreds Barsam. Where is the point?

Combat Drone, if the base is not protected against EMP and attempts to break the enemy, and not having a program of battery life - useless cans, designers who need to drown in the toilet. In addition, control of the swarm can be carried out with the surface, and a powerful short-range transmitter to jam as much more complicated.

Are you serious about this?

There is so much wrong to the assumption that a soldier has to be just smart enough to follow orders that I cannot even begin to form an answer. Especially the kind of soldier that has to operate tech heavy equipment.

Yes, I am quite serious. Of course, mental retardation in the army do not take, but even that would cope with modern technology (which is incomparably more complex than even the weapons of the SWW, not to mention earlier times) Soldier great mind is not necessary, important skills and training. A former soldier from the required minimum at all - the ability to lift a spear, a bow and pull system to keep. Classes are challenging, but the mind is not particularly demanding. A commander may well be a clever 3-5 hundred soldiers, lack of mental discipline subordinate to compensate. Since then much has changed, but the basic principles remain. Actually, as humans. Capitation intelligence is needed in all sorts of special forces, intelligence, military engineers, and with the bulk of the demand is low. In this case, given that all these places are clearly occupied by someone else, the potential "meat" very sophisticated and flexible mind, and should not be different.

[dragoongfa]

1) I don't understand anything of this.

2) According to the word of god: Fireblade and the other two Teidars used telekinesis to suffocate Alex, they didn't use telepathy at all.

3) Humans and Loroi are physically almost identical. I worked with that.

4) Then ask the Soians why they thought that it would be a good idea to create the Loroi at the first place if you don't believe that they couldn't use someone else to police them.

Drones are the easiest things to spoof with modern Electronic Warfare, the Iranians practically highjacked a state of the art Stealth drone that the Americans were using to spy on them. At advanced tech levels the whole concept of relying on drones for anything besides base intelligence gathering becomes stupid.

As for the soldiers and the need for intelligence, there is a famous unattributedquote that has been true for millennia:

"Battles are sometimes won by generals; wars are nearly always won by sergeants and privates."
- F.E. Adcock, British classical scholar

If the rank and file is unable to show free thinking and unable to take the initiative in low level combat then they will lose all of the firefights. You need smart sergeants and you need smart troopers if you are to have a proper war machine.

[Siber]

I'm having trouble understanding 1) as well, but it seems to be questioning why the Loroi should look so human, and rejecting the rule of cool as a reason. So going from that assumption...

I think the creation of the Loroi most likely went something along these lines.

1. The Soia are very good at bioengineering. They're good enough to alter a species to use significantly different biochemistry.
2. Despite this mastery, evolution on a galactic scale can still produce useful novelty, and reproducing these useful features from scratch is impractical.
3. The Soia use engineering to uplift new peoples for their empire. If these new people are slaves or equals is impossible to say from the information available.
4. The uplifts are adapted to a common preferred biochemistry for convenience and efficiency. If everyone can eat the same food, logistics are easier.
5. Each uplift brings something unique to the empire, but overlap is possible. Loroi and Barsam could both be alternate options for a warrior race. They could even be rivals, produced by different Soia factions. Or their original purposes could be completely different in one or both cases, and they adapted to war after the fall.
6. Humanity has a special quality, most likely a partially developed psi ability, that the Soia recognized. The Loroi were created based on humanity for that reason.

Honestly the only particularly improbable part of this chain of events is the second point for me, but not so improbable that I consider it a problem.

In thinking about this I had a related thought that I don't think I've seen proposed before... the Soia had technology that interacted in some ways with psi, and the Loroi have some kind of cultural aversion to cybernetics. What if the Loroi weren't a warrior race, but an organ farm? Loroi mature, have some kids, then get harvested to have their brains stuck in communications relays and the like for an empire that can manipulate psi but not recreate it outside of a Loroi/human brain. It's nasty, but with the right culture the benefits of FTL communication could be seen as worth it. The cultural aversion to cybernetics, assuming it isn't a more recent occurance due to the war with the umiak, could be a distant echo of that horror.

[Grayhome]

The Barsam worship the Soia as gods, maybe they created sentient life forms to worship themselves. Look at it from a religious angle.

[Krulle]

2. Despite this mastery, evolution on a galactic scale can still produce useful novelty, and reproducing these useful features from scratch is impractical.
[...]
Honestly the only particularly improbable part of this chain of events is the second point for me, but not so improbable that I consider it a problem.

It could well be that the Soian found it impossible to calculate what can be achieved.
I mean recombining genes, or creating artificial ones isn't that different, if you know what the end result must be.
But going from a desired result (e.g. superior psi abilities) and not even knowing they exist makes it very hard to calculate or guess the correct order of molecules you need to combine.
Having a template makes this much easier.