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Page 103 discussion. 
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Post Page 103 discussion.
Woohoo! Glad to see the comic continuing and looks like our long patience paid off.

Sounds like whatever it was the Umiak commander was talking about may have begun after the convoy they are rendezvousing with left Azimol.

Also....

Image



and... first! :D


Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:07 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
hi hi

In other news, Beryl stocks skyrocketed today when a member of the observer caste managed to read a human's mind without using any telepathy whatsoever, effectively finishing his sentence. Crowds reportedly erupted into applause and cheering upon witnessing the event. In addition, events further confounded the age old question of whether curiosity is a virtue or a vice. ;)


Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:35 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
I created an account just to say that I am very pleased to see the comic back on the track. This will be a master piece, I just know it!


Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:45 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
A new Page! I'm so happy!

I think I remember Arioch saying there were some problems with the shuttle's geometry at some point...?

If that's the case, good to hear that those issues got resolved.


Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
You can choose any seat you want, and I'm going to sit RIGHT next to you no matter which one you choose!~


Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:47 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Darn it pinheadh78 I wanted to post that gif lol.

AS to Beryls reactionImage

Also, Arioch those look like some damn fine chairs. :D
Congrats on working out the shuttle difficulties.

Here's hoping that things will flow much smoother for a little while. :?


Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:51 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
The Prophet of FBT approves of this development...

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Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
Time to get the fan theories rolling to see what we can sus out and guess at before the next update.

Jardin's group started in Naam and it's been a week and several jumps on their way to Seren.
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider098.html

After reviewing the map
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/image ... r_map2.gif

They could have had a short trip to Azimol directly OR they took the long way around via the steps OR actually passed through the Azimol system and continued towards Seren.

If the supply fleet they linked up with "just came from Azimol" then Jardin's group is only a jump or two (IE a couple days) from Azimol. It's been a week plus since the Naam battle and the Umiak's boasting about Azimol being in danger 'as we speak' so IF something was actually happening surely someone has heard something about it.

Either the Umiak really was bluffing about the current danger to Azimol and the war OR the hammer hasn't dropped yet OR the supply convoy left just before hostilities at Azimol and having traveled a few days to link up with Jardin's supply group is un-aware of an attack.

More likely the map just isn't an exhaustive map and there are jump-points and systems not represented between the major locations that account for the jumps, time, and lack of info.

@Username: sorry :), I've had that one locked in the chamber ready to fire for a few months now and I habitually read the outsider-forums daily.


Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:30 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
Obviously you take the seat at the back of the space bus, even though there's no other coolkids to share it with. Also:

Image

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Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:48 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
pinheadh78 wrote:
snip


You forget one thing, farsense communications. The convoy may not have a farseer onboard but Tempest surely has.

If an Umiak breakthrough happened then I am sure that an emergency Farseer communication would have been sent to every available fleet with farseer capabilities.

Unless I have hit the mark and the Umiak have also managed to jam farseer to farseer comms.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:17 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
They actually don't communicate. I used to think they did as well, but they can only sense at range, not speak.


Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:30 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
fredgiblet wrote:
They actually don't communicate. I used to think they did as well, but they can only sense at range, not speak.


From the Loroi Timeline:

http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/loroi_timeline.html

Quote:
803 CE Farseers on Deinar make telepathic contact with their counterparts on Perrein.


And from the Loroi Caste Title:

http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/loroi_ranks.html

Quote:
Mizol are also prohibited from taking direct command of a vessel, but the senior Mizol usually fills a role (in addition to that of diplomat) across between an intelligence officer and a political officer, and is often in a position to deliver Admiralty-level commands to the ship's captain (sometimes through Farseer contact).


If they can't talk then Arioch has to change the above, or at least make it clear what kind of communication they are able to do in that distance.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:42 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
Wow... Christmas has come early this year! :)

Edit: On the topic of farseer communication: why would they need all those messenger ships, if all they need would be a bunch of farseers?

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:50 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
Suederwind wrote:
Wow... Christmas has come early this year! :)

Edit: On the topic of farseer communication: why would they need all those messenger ships, if all they need would be a bunch of farseers?


My 'explanation' of this 'hole' will be that they can only send very limited messages, a few sentences at best in a span of hours, before the farseers lose the connection/concetration at that distance.

EDIT: Something Like this message: Emergency Alert, go at [coordinates] and intercept enemy forces.

Would be enough for short orders but detailed campaign orders and detailed intelligence reports would need a classical form of communication.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:06 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
dragoon: even if we assume farseers could communicate without effort at conversation speed, did not need to sleep, was 100% accurate in transmission retention and writing it down all at the same time, it would not be 'fast enough' for strategic intelligence, maybe if we add in digital compression protocols...as far as i understand it, none of those assumptions are true though.


Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:21 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
discord wrote:
dragoon: even if we assume farseers could communicate without effort at conversation speed, did not need to sleep, was 100% accurate in transmission retention and writing it down all at the same time, it would not be 'fast enough' for strategic intelligence, maybe if we add in digital compression protocols...as far as i understand it, none of those assumptions are true though.


Very limited messages should be retented by the farseer or one of her attendants even.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:28 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
If I remember that correctly, a message send by a farseer over such distances would be lethal for others, standing around the sender and people standing in the "target area". However, I am not sure if thats correct.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:04 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
Image

UOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:08 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
hi hi

Telepathic contact does not necessarily involve 2 way communication. It is my understanding that the contact between farseers was more like. "Hey, there's another mind over here, and it feels Loroi to me. How odd is that?"


Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:55 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

Telepathic contact does not necessarily involve 2 way communication. It is my understanding that the contact between farseers was more like. "Hey, there's another mind over here, and it feels Loroi to me. How odd is that?"


That would go against what is written in the loroi ranks entry in the insider.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:44 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
hi hi

On the differences between receiving and transmitting:
Quote:
Given enough power and instrumentality, it is possible to mechanically amplify an ordinary Loroi individual's telepathic transmission so that it may be readable at interstellar distances, but this is not usually done. Keep in mind that during the pre-starflight Loroi period of internecine warfare, amplified telepathic transmissions were used by the Loroi for the purpose of attacking the minds of their fellow Loroi, and the telepathic amplifiers worn by Mizol and Teidar are for the purpose of attack, not communication. If you imagine trying to amplify an audio signal generated from Chicago so that it could be heard in New York, and consider what that might do to the hearing of people in the surrounding areas, you get an idea of why this is potentially dangerous to unintended recipients. A telepathic signal can be focused in terms of "frequency" to attempt to limit the contact to an individual Loroi, but there are limits to how effective this focusing can be. Using telepathy at interstellar FTL communication is possible, but limited to unusual situations in which the target is a known amplified Farseer who can detect a transmission at a specific "frequency" and low enough power that it will not potentially lobotomize nearby ordinary Loroi, or where transmitter and receiver are in a "safe" location free of nearby vulnerable listeners, or else in such a desperate situation that the sender is willing to accept such a risk to telepathic bystanders. Warning an outpost of an incoming Umiak strike may not be worthwhile if you destroy the minds of the majority of the people you are trying to warn.
- Arioch

Quote:
Ship-to-ship telepathy would have to be amplified; you'd either have to have Farseer-level telepaths on both ships (who could send messages directly to each other), or the message would have to be broadcast loud enough for everyone on the target ship to hear, which would be disruptive (especially to those on the sending ship).
- Arioch

Quote:
Farseers are not living FTL radios. A Farseer's ability (and her available instrumentality) is centered around reception, not transmission. Broadcasting an amplified telepathic transmission that could be received (even by a Farseer) at interstellar distance is dangerous to nearby Loroi, and so (except in an extreme emergency) can only be attempted from specially prepared, safe locations. This means that FTL messages can be sent from HQ to Farseers in the field, but generally not the other way around.
- Arioch

On the initial contact:
Quote:
The development of powerful telepathic amplifiers allowed Farseers on Deinar to detect their counterparts on Perrein, about whom they had been completely unaware. The question of Loroi origins had always been a matter of great debate, so it became a matter of prime importance to make contact with these lost relatives.
- Arioch

There are some other limitations on the capabilities of Farseers to communicate as well, including how quickly they wear out. A breakthrough at a strategically vital position might warrant farseer communication in certain circumstances, but it is not a given. Furthermore, the Umiak seem to have some understanding of farseers, and the Umiak commander said that their divisions would have bypassed the Azimol citadel. If that is a place that has strategic sending capabilities, the Umiak may have left it alone and gone around.

That, along with the fact that -unless we're in for a surprise- there is no farseer on Alex's shuttle, I think there is still plenty of reason for Beryl to think that her curiosity will go unsatiated.


Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:52 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
Looks like I am going to have to make some minor adjustments to a later chapter...

EDIT: Which actually are even smaller than I thought...

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Last edited by dragoongfa on Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:57 am
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
icekatze wrote:
There are some other limitations on the capabilities of Farseers to communicate as well, including how quickly they wear out. A breakthrough at a strategically vital position might warrant farseer communication in certain circumstances, but it is not a given. Furthermore, the Umiak seem to have some understanding of farseers, and the Umiak commander said that their divisions would have bypassed the Azimol citadel. If that is a place that has strategic sending capabilities, the Umiak may have left it alone and gone around.

That, along with the fact that -unless we're in for a surprise- there is no farseer on Alex's shuttle, I think there is still plenty of reason for Beryl to think that her curiosity will go unsatiated.


Even if Kikitik-27 spoke the truth about a new telepathic masking ability of the Umiak, it would be unlikely for whole divisions to enter Union-owned star systems completely undetected. There's still the myriad ships&sensors outside the so-called 'citadel' systems within the Union. Not only from the Loroi, but their allied races as well. No way none of those would have succeeded in sounding an alert to a citadel, from which point the ball goes rolling so to speak. No, Kikitik-27 was merely bluffing.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:08 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
I think that the battle of Naam was the 'field test' of the telepathic masking ability. Whenever a new kind of weapon is introduced the following two phases always happen:

1st: Familiarization of the equipment by the personnel who will use it and testing if the equipment is properly integrated into the existing systems.
2nd: Once familiarization and integration are at acceptable levels, field testing of a large scale is carried out.

If the field test is successful then the gloves are off.

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Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:25 pm
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Post Re: Page 103 discussion.
*Berlygasm*

Finally!

Interesting she is showing more emotion....
Yes, I am looking forward to this flight..
Maybe some human nerve calming techniques...


Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:48 pm
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