Uncanny resemblance.

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Darth Cloaked Guy
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Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Darth Cloaked Guy »

I discovered Outsider only a few days ago, possibly less than a week. What I found was awesome, yet unnerved me to the core.

You see, I've been developing my Cemu setting for some time now, years at this point, as a casual hobby. It was basically my D&D high fantasy setting advanced into outer space. Many of the races were races taken from that setting, evolved, and output into a sci-fi fantasy realm.

The halflings and gnomes together became the Sahrea.
The orcs became the stone-skinned Doluri.
The feline natureborn and catfolk became the Kitai Murrani and Kitai Tokali.

What's unnerving about this?

Well, you see, Elves also reached the stars. Inspired by a picture on Space Empires V, I decided that they were blue-skinned, at least the lower caste.

Okay, blue-skinned space elves with a genetic caste system. That's an odd number of similarities, right?

It gets worse. Much worse.

The plural of the race was Lorikin. -kin being a plural suffix in their language, that leaves one of them being a Lori. One letter away from Loroi.

So mine aren't psychic.

So mine don't control half the galaxy.

Still. Eerie. I would like to request that any misunderstandings be resolved here, so that no legal issues (unlikely, but possible) will occur from this similarity. Please respond if you read this, Arioch.

I can back up my claim somewhat with this blog of mine (which, although old and hasn't been updated in forever, is still younger than the setting itself by some period of time). I never got around to adding information of the species names, but still: http://cemuuniverse.wordpress.com/

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Arioch
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Arioch »

These kind of unintentional similarities are very common. Nearly every writer or artist has had that teeth-gnashing moment when he or she realizes that an element being worked on is uncomfortably similar to something that's already out there.

All ideas have been used before. There is no shortage of "space elves" in science fiction, and I could name you at least a dozen blue-skinned aliens with at least some kind of psychic or empathic ability. But what's really important is the detail in how you construct the culture and technology of your own aliens, and how you use them in your story. That's what makes the creation your own.

The name "Lorikin" is indeed uncomfortably similar. I would recommend using a different name if you're serious about developing your story into something commercial, if only because I'm sure you don't want people confusing your product with mine. I can't tell you how many times I've changed names of things in my own stories because they were too close to something already out there (which is why doing Google searches on names you intend to use can be very helpful). But that is your choice... it's not something that concerns me.

dfacto
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by dfacto »

Know what else is uncanny? Everyone has been ripping off Tolkien for 50 years and getting away with it.

Don't worry about it too much. If there's no direct plagiarism people won't care, or probably even notice.

Darth Cloaked Guy
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Darth Cloaked Guy »

I suppose great minds truly do think alike (if I am, in fact, a great mind. You are, clearly, and people tell me I am, though I'm still not sure if I believe them).

Still, I am not good with names. Lori sounded vaguely Elven enough to be Elven, but not blatantly obvious... and, frankly, if it's okay with you, I'd really like to label this one as "too late to change", as I just can't come up with any other name for them, now that this one has been burned into my brain for so many years (it's been, what, five now? That's a quarter of my life so far!).

Still, it's unlikely that I'd ever successfully market anything, given my inability to produce anything worth even commenting on, so I don't think this will be an issue. If I do, though, I will put in my FAQ (even if it isn't a frequently-asked question) that Lorikin are not the same as your universe's Loroi. Clears up the confusion, and free advertising for you.

Work for you?

Karst45
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Karst45 »

Arioch wrote:There is no shortage of "space elves" in science fiction, and I could name you at least a dozen blue-skinned aliens with at least some kind of psychic or empathic ability.
*take a pens and paper* hmm hmm please proceed
The name "Lorikin" is indeed uncomfortably similar. I would recommend using a different name if you're serious about developing your story into something commercial, if only because I'm sure you don't want people confusing your product with mine.
Or do like Gene Roddenberry, Take name of earth not-so-know city / tools


Like every one else said, dont worry about that anyway people will find/make their own link to something they know even if there is no link at all here *shake fist at his Philosophy teacher*

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Arioch
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Arioch »

Darth Cloaked Guy wrote:Work for you?
As I said, that is totally up to you. What you do with your own musings is none of my business.
Karst45 wrote:*take a pens and paper* hmm hmm please proceed
Off the top of my head:
  1. Amani (Warcraft)
  2. Andorians (Star Trek)
  3. Asari (Mass Effect)
  4. Dark Elves/Drow (various sources)
  5. Delvians (Farscape)
  6. Divas (The Fifth Element)
  7. Draenei (Warcraft)
  8. Elerians (Master of Orion 2)
  9. Na'vi (Avatar)
  10. Nakai (Stargate Universe)
  11. Phantom Tribe (El-Hazard)
  12. Syreen (Star Control 2)
  13. Vineans (Yoko Tsuno)
  14. Zotrians (Ulysses 31)

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Timefly
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Timefly »

dfacto wrote:Know what else is uncanny? Everyone has been ripping off Tolkien for 50 years and getting away with it.
And George Lucas (Star Wars) ripped off Tolkien, and Tolkien ripped off Beowulf, and Beowulf ripped off even older stories. All story tellers "recycle" ideas and concepts to one degree or another. In fact, Albert Einstein said that "creativity is the art of hiding your sources."

Ultimately it is the emotional element of the story that actually matters. If you (Darth Cloaked Guy) find that you've picked too similar a stage or setting, you should be able to change that without changing the story itself. If your story depends on the fact that your space elves are named Lorikin and have blue skin, you're probably getting stuck on details rather than story.

Tash
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Tash »

Timefly wrote: Ultimately it is the emotional element of the story that actually matters. If you (Darth Cloaked Guy) find that you've picked too similar a stage or setting, you should be able to change that without changing the story itself. If your story depends on the fact that your space elves are named Lorikin and have blue skin, you're probably getting stuck on details rather than story.
Bam.

To put it another way, take your story, remove all the space elves from it.
Insert, say, pale gelatinous space octopi with glowing eyes.

Does the story still work? Then the story is on the right track.
Designing species is fun, but ultimately, you should be able to copy/paste anything into your plotline and have it work.

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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Darth Cloaked Guy »

Tash wrote:To put it another way, take your story, remove all the space elves from it.
Insert, say, pale gelatinous space octopi with glowing eyes.

Does the story still work? Then the story is on the right track.
Designing species is fun, but ultimately, you should be able to copy/paste anything into your plotline and have it work.
Sorry, no, gelatinous space octopi with glowing eyes would be unable to fill the Lorikin role in the narrative.

Specifically, that of answering the question of "what happened to the elves?"

I suppose they COULD, in THEORY, be some sort of extradimensional horror that replaced the space-elves after being somehow summoned there through experimentation, except that

A: That really doesn't fit the Elven mindset.
B: That would be Orz.
C: That's just plain not as much fun.

Of the non-human races, I've put more work into the Lorikin than any other save perhaps the Sahrea. My senior project was rendering a Lori Starfighter in Blender.

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manticore7
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by manticore7 »

I think it depends on the reader, Arioch has been up front about his inspirations so its cool with me. I enjot the story and can't wait to read the ending.

speaking of inspirations untill I looked at Ariochs chart I was wondering why Fireblade reminded me a bit of Washu from Tenchi Muyo.
"Worlds governed by artificial intelligence often learned a hard lesson, Logic doesn't care"
Andromeda season 2 episode 6 All too Human

Karst45
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Karst45 »

Arioch wrote:
Darth Cloaked Guy wrote:Work for you?
As I said, that is totally up to you. What you do with your own musings is none of my business.
Karst45 wrote:*take a pens and paper* hmm hmm please proceed
Off the top of my head:
  1. Amani (Warcraft)
  2. Andorians (Star Trek)
  3. Asari (Mass Effect)
  4. Dark Elves/Drow (various sources)
  5. Delvians (Farscape)
  6. Divas (The Fifth Element)
  7. Draenei (Warcraft)
  8. Elerians (Master of Orion 2)
  9. Na'vi (Avatar)
  10. Nakai (Stargate Universe)
  11. Phantom Tribe (El-Hazard)
  12. Syreen (Star Control 2)
  13. Vineans (Yoko Tsuno)
  14. Zotrians (Ulysses 31)
i was more thinking along the blue elf with telepatic power rather than blue telepatic creature... that should teach me not to fully read a sentence.

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Mjolnir
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Mjolnir »

It happens. I created a "living ship" character for an RP at the old forums which the Narada from the recent Star Trek movie (released several years later) has an uncanny resemblance to. A rough sketch of her in her "resting" posture would be indistinguishable from a rough sketch of the Narada. She had a flexible, dynamically supported structure instead of the rigid spines of the Narada, but the resemblance otherwise was shocking.

And I've been working on a first person tank shooter game with a realtime raytracing rendering engine, and had developed a visual look to the game...lots of dark glass, mirrored surfaces, shiny blue stuff, etc. Anyone looking at it now will think it's based on Tron 2.0. (It's really an extension of the look of an old game called Spectre VR to take advantage of raytracing, and the look of that was based on the games that Tron 1.0's look was based on, so the convergence makes sense, but it irks me that it's certain to be misinterpreted.)

(a couple screens for reference:
http://arklyffe.com/files/rtrt/screen42.png
http://arklyffe.com/files/rtrt/screen56.png)

TrashMan
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by TrashMan »

Karst45 wrote: i was more thinking along the blue elf with telepatic power rather than blue telepatic creature... that should teach me not to fully read a sentence.

*Points towards anime*

You got no shortage of space elves there.

elizibar
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by elizibar »

TrashMan wrote:
Karst45 wrote: i was more thinking along the blue elf with telepatic power rather than blue telepatic creature... that should teach me not to fully read a sentence.

*Points towards anime*

You got no shortage of space elves there.

The Ahb (sp?) aren't blue, but they are space elves, yeah

Voitan
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Voitan »

elizibar wrote:
TrashMan wrote:
Karst45 wrote: i was more thinking along the blue elf with telepatic power rather than blue telepatic creature... that should teach me not to fully read a sentence.

*Points towards anime*

You got no shortage of space elves there.

The Ahb (sp?) aren't blue, but they are space elves, yeah
Their hair is blue, but their skin being so pale as to appear blue while in a low light enviroment, such as when they are lit by the light from their info screens.

Such as this:

Image

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Arioch
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Arioch »

Except that only Abh of the royal family have pointed ears.


Darth Cloaked Guy
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Darth Cloaked Guy »

My thoughts on that list are twofold:

One: AWESOME I think that's a Loroi up there in the top left

Two: What the heck is an Asgard doing there?

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icekatze
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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

I think they're judging elves both on appearance and typical behavior. The Asgard fall into the behavioral elves category.

I found it hard to buy the line that the Abh were benevolent conquerers, given how many of them with actual screen time were absolutely nuts. Refueling station guy, I-wanna-be-fabulous guy and captain kill-them-all were particularly noteworthy. But it just goes to show that not all elves are as fair as Tolkien's.

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Re: Uncanny resemblance.

Post by Karst45 »

Voitan wrote:Their hair is blue, but their skin being so pale as to appear blue while in a low light enviroment, such as when they are lit by the light from their info screens.
I think it more of a way to represent low light/night by using more blue shading than it is the hair reflecting on the skin.
Darth Cloaked Guy wrote:My thoughts on that list are twofold:

One: AWESOME I think that's a Loroi up there in the top left

Two: What the heck is an Asgard doing there?
Well yes type 1-B blue space elf actually link to outsider page 50

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