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Page 105 discussion 
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Sweforce wrote:
Another possibility is that they need to flee the Tempest during an ongoing battle and just keep their cool to not worry Alex to avoid having a panicking prisoner to deal with.


Havent tought about that one. This is quite plausible. would also explain why Talon is the pilot. An ex fighter pilot now piloting a shuttle.... (yes we haven seen her yet but i remember Arioch telling about this once.


Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:34 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
dragoongfa wrote:
5 hours and 20 minutes actually (which is what 19200 Solon should translate to).

In order for a boarding action and/or unfortunate accident to happen in space one will either need cloaking or the full cooperation of the entire fleet.


you right sorry misscalculated that :D


Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:36 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
hi hi

Perhaps the Umiak are currently accelerating to overtake the fleet while the Loroi are being forced to maintain a steady trajectory for the jump, and Stillstorm is planning on turning part of the fleet around in order to screen for the outgoing ships. Who knows? I'm sure we'll get a glimpse of what is going on eventually.


Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:55 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Head restraints and air bags are designed to prevent injury from sudden deceleration in a front-end crash; you don't see such things in aircraft, where the goal of the restraints is just to keep you in your seat in the event of small accelerations in any direction. For the rest, it's a pretty standard 5-point harness as is used in race cars and military aircraft (that don't have an ejection seat). The groin strap is attached to the back of the seat cushion and comes up from under the body, so there is no issue of the pelvis sliding forward.

dragoongfa wrote:
5 hours and 20 minutes actually (which is what 19200 Solon should translate to).

It's closer to 6 hours. The solon is longer than a second (1.092 seconds, to be precise).

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Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:24 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Arioch wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:
5 hours and 20 minutes actually (which is what 19200 Solon should translate to).

It's closer to 6 hours. The solon is longer than a second (1.092 seconds, to be precise).


So 5 hours and 49 minutes; which means that Alex will be caught between Beryl's curiosity and Tempo's agenda for that long while suffering from an empty stomach and lack of proper sleep.

I would hide behind Fireblade for some peace and quiet but that joke earlier has surely pissed the Teidar off. If only there was a curious shuttle pilot to distract Alex from whatever ails him.

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Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:46 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Good ol' Alex, alienating all the people close to him (get it, "alienating")

If anything happens to their intended escape ship, maybe hopefully they'll hitch a ride on Black Razor. :mrgreen:

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Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:02 pm
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
rewik wrote:
RedDwarfIV wrote:
Or Arioch thought it would look weird if the seat belt was the same design as humans use. Sometimes you need a reminder that aliens think differently.

But they are using the same design as humans use. Had they not used the harness at all, I'd have no objections - I'd assume the inertial dampers would take care of the job. But now that they're securing him into the seat, a number of questions crop up.

Source? Page 6 shows the Bellarmine's bridge bunnies having no seatbelts at all.

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Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:04 pm
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
A large vessel doesn't need seatbelts; the inertial dampers can handle any planned change in acceleration, and any unplanned change in acceleration will be very minor due to the mass of the ship. A kinetic impact that could alter the momentum of a million ton starship enough to throw you out of your seat would do catastrophic damage to the hull. The same is not true for a ~300 ton shuttle that could experience all manner of bumps on its way out of the hangar, to say nothing of reentering atmosphere. Hence the seat belts on the shuttle.

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Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:41 pm
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Arioch wrote:
A large vessel doesn't need seatbelts; the inertial dampers can handle any planned change in acceleration, and any unplanned change in acceleration will be very minor due to the mass of the ship. A kinetic impact that could alter the momentum of a million ton starship enough to throw you out of your seat would do catastrophic damage to the hull. The same is not true for a ~300 ton shuttle that could experience all manner of bumps on its way out of the hangar, to say nothing of reentering atmosphere. Hence the seat belts on the shuttle.

Bellarmine couldn't have been much more than 20,000 tonnes. Why no bridge bunny bench bindings? They were at action stations.

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Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:57 pm
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
RedDwarfIV wrote:
couldn't have been much more than 20,000 tonnes. Why no bridge bunny bench bindings? They were at action stations.


The Bennet class chief designer is sold on an ancient TV series called Star Trek? ;)


Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:48 pm
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
RedDwarfIV wrote:
Bellarmine couldn't have been much more than 20,000 tonnes. Why no bridge bunny bench bindings? They were at action stations.

I'm not sure where you're getting the 20,000 ton figure from, but let's take that as an example. A 20,000 ton corvette outweighs a 300 ton shuttle by a factor of six two orders of magnitude. A bump that wouldn't even unseat you from such a 20,000 ton ship could be potentially lethal in a 300 ton shuttle.

Comparing starships with small craft doesn't make much more sense than comparing fighters with carriers.

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Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:02 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
It is interesting that the shuttle is filled with seats when it is configured for cargo. I though it was configured for short range trips for crew rotation. That is, some of Tempest crew get rotated of, to less dangerous assignments or even some R&R for a while. Like in how most normal militarizes do, even in wartime as much as possible to combat battle fatigue. Well actually , it is possible that "cargo" configuration" mean that they didn't bother to finish a passenger conversion and only throw in the seats for the crew rotation thing since it was only for a short trip to a meeting convoy. As such, Alex may have to pee in a bottle.


Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:01 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Arioch wrote:
RedDwarfIV wrote:
Bellarmine couldn't have been much more than 20,000 tonnes. Why no bridge bunny bench bindings? They were at action stations.

I'm not sure where you're getting the 20,000 ton figure from, but let's take that as an example. A 20,000 ton corvette outweighs a 300 ton shuttle by a factor of two orders of magnitude. A bump that wouldn't even unseat you from such a 20,000 ton ship could be potentially lethal in a 300 ton shuttle.

Comparing starships with small craft doesn't make much more sense than comparing fighters with carriers.

I once compared spacecraft to seacraft and I'm pretty sure you said spacecraft were heavier. So I took the mass of a seacraft of similar length, doubled it, and did not assume that was the actual mass, just a guess. Insider doesn't give the masses.

My point was, Bellarmine probably would shake around a lot if hit, because it's not a million ton starship. When hit by the Plasma Focus, Alex was thrown off his feet. But still no seatbelts.

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Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:10 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Sweforce wrote:
It is interesting that the shuttle is filled with seats when it is configured for cargo. I though it was configured for short range trips for crew rotation. That is, some of Tempest crew get rotated of, to less dangerous assignments or even some R&R for a while. Like in how most normal militarizes do, even in wartime as much as possible to combat battle fatigue. Well actually , it is possible that "cargo" configuration" mean that they didn't bother to finish a passenger conversion and only throw in the seats for the crew rotation thing since it was only for a short trip to a meeting convoy. As such, Alex may have to pee in a bottle.


I think that the difference between the configurations Tempo alludes to is between a first class passenger plane and a dual role cargo plane.

Stillstorm is for all intents and purposes a high ranking Torrai and an influential one at that, even if at odds with the Emperor. That allows for some benefits and privileges, what we imagine as a military passenger shuttle is a sturdy and relatively austere vessel tasked with carrying a large number of personnel quickly and safely. Generals and Admirals are expected to use such transportation during wartime without making any fuss about it because for us a warrior's life is full of austerity.

Loroi are different however, they are a society in which the warrior castes have enhanced privileges and the higher one's caste and rank is the more privileges one has. It should be common for a Torrai Lashret to have a personal shuttle, it is a high status symbol, allows for easy transportation between ships/stations/planets for inspections/official visits and provides an excellent craft for a flag transfer when the command ship is unable to perform the functions of a flagship (i.e. when it is about to blow). Human admirals and even fleet admirals wouldn't have this perk and would rely on the standard shuttles of a ship to go about their business (provided that the fleets of the future follow current and most past trends).

Now let's take things to the next logical level and consider the possibility that the various Torrai's that have such personal shuttles have the right and leisure to equip and decorate them as they please without suffering any short of backlash. The amenities that Tempo alludes to could as well be the Loroi equivalent of first class seating and various other extravagant items that only the Torrai Lashret and her closest confidantes would indulge into.

If this is the case then Stillstorm chose to treat her personal shuttle as just an other fleet asset (unlike other Torrai's of similar rank) and converted it into a passenger and cargo runner instead of just using it as some short of limo.

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Last edited by dragoongfa on Sat Sep 19, 2015 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:29 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
RedDwarfIV wrote:
I once compared spacecraft to seacraft and I'm pretty sure you said spacecraft were heavier. So I took the mass of a seacraft of similar length, doubled it, and did not assume that was the actual mass, just a guess. Insider doesn't give the masses.


Another way to do it : Scale down from one of the other ships in the insider where mass is given.

Example : Vortex II (tempest) is 1200kt, and 750m long. Bellarmine was 190m long. A proportional Vortex 190m long would mass 1200kt * (190m/750m)^3 = 19.51 kt.

A different route to much the same answer.


Sat Sep 19, 2015 6:37 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Karst45 wrote:
am i the only one who were thinking: She touched him! she touched Him!!!!! in the second panel.

Beryl is touching him upon his uniform clothing...

Likewise when he was being escorted out of the bridge, both Fireblade and Beryl was touching him upon his uniform outfit..

I suspect that their 'mind-melding' capabilities work better when they are touching the skin of the person they are trying to get a mind-feel of what they are thinking...

Tho Beryl did look kinda miff that commander Tempo? is coming along, she appears to have calm down enough to do her duty strapping Alec down for their launch toward their destination.....

And Alec likewise looks quite miff at Fireblade as he looks behind him and notices where his military escorts are sitting...


Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:59 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
RedDwarfIV wrote:
My point was, Bellarmine probably would shake around a lot if hit, because it's not a million ton starship. When hit by the Plasma Focus, Alex was thrown off his feet. But still no seatbelts.

That was a hit that cut the ship in two, and Alex was standing, not sitting down. The bridge crew would still have been in their seats when they were killed only moments later by a loss of air pressure.

Realistically, would the bridge seats have lap-belts just in case? Probably. Looking at pages 3 and 6, I don't see any visual evidence that they didn't have such belts. :D

Sweforce wrote:
It is interesting that the shuttle is filled with seats when it is configured for cargo. I though it was configured for short range trips for crew rotation. That is, some of Tempest crew get rotated of, to less dangerous assignments or even some R&R for a while. Like in how most normal militarizes do, even in wartime as much as possible to combat battle fatigue. Well actually , it is possible that "cargo" configuration" mean that they didn't bother to finish a passenger conversion and only throw in the seats for the crew rotation thing since it was only for a short trip to a meeting convoy. As such, Alex may have to pee in a bottle.

It "was" configured for cargo. On short notice they bolted in some passenger seats as you would on the cargo deck of a C-17, but it lacks amenities that one might expect on a commercial airliner, such as additional restrooms, a galley, or in-flight entertainment. There is a small toilet in the cockpit if Alex needs to relieve himself, but they won't be serving him peanuts and a beverage.

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Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:54 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
dragoongfa wrote:
Now let's take things to the next logical level and consider the possibility that the various Torrai's that have such personal shuttles have the right and leisure to equip and decorate them as they please without suffering any short of backlash. The amenities that Tempo alludes to could as well be the Loroi equivalent of first class seating and various other extravagant items that only the Torrai Lashret and her closest confidantes would indulge into.
Hmm... hey Arioch, how common was it among the Loroi in peace-time for admirals to get laughed at for the equivalent of fitting their shuttle with a jacuzzi?


Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Arioch wrote:
RedDwarfIV wrote:
My point was, Bellarmine probably would shake around a lot if hit, because it's not a million ton starship. When hit by the Plasma Focus, Alex was thrown off his feet. But still no seatbelts.

That was a hit that cut the ship in two, and Alex was standing, not sitting down. The bridge crew would still have been in their seats when they were killed only moments later by a loss of air pressure.

I thought Bellarmine was cut in two by a second shot? The Damage Control tablet only showed a large amount of damage in the centre of the vessel.

Actually, scratch that. Looking back at the comic, it seems that the tablet was just showing significantly less damage than it should have. No shaking around to indicate a second hit.
Arioch wrote:
Realistically, would the bridge seats have lap-belts just in case? Probably. Looking at pages 3 and 6, I don't see any visual evidence that they didn't have such belts. :D

That would make sense. At the very least, if the spacecraft lost its artificial gravity, they wouldn't have problems with floating away.

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Sat Sep 19, 2015 5:39 pm
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Absalom wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:
Now let's take things to the next logical level and consider the possibility that the various Torrai's that have such personal shuttles have the right and leisure to equip and decorate them as they please without suffering any short of backlash. The amenities that Tempo alludes to could as well be the Loroi equivalent of first class seating and various other extravagant items that only the Torrai Lashret and her closest confidantes would indulge into.
Hmm... hey Arioch, how common was it among the Loroi in peace-time for admirals to get laughed at for the equivalent of fitting their shuttle with a jacuzzi?

Laughing at top-ranking officers in a military dictatorship is probably not good for one's career (or health).

The personal shuttles are more for showing off for VIP's than for personal enjoyment. If a sybaritic admiral wanted to doll up her surroundings, she'd probably do up her personal quarters and washroom/bath rather than the shuttle, which she wouldn't spend very much time in.

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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Actually from rereading pages 12-13 of the Prologue, the first shot cut the Bellarmine in two, while the second ignited her fuel tanks.


Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:52 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Quote:
Laughing at top-ranking officers in a military dictatorship is probably not good for one's career (or health).


No equivalent of the presidential roast then, drat.


Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:50 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
Southern Cross wrote:
Actually from rereading pages 12-13 of the Prologue, the first shot cut the Bellarmine in two, while the second ignited her fuel tanks.

That's what I meant when I said "scratch that". I was confused by the Damage Control tablet, which appeared to show only a large area of damage through the neck area, with lighter damage around it.
Image
There is at least one area of the neck with no indicated damage. That's why I thought it was severed by a second hit offscreen.

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Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:38 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
hi hi

I suspect that the automated sensors that detect damage on what had originally been a peacetime scout ship may not have been designed with such catastrophic damage in mind. It's possible that the damage sensors were designed around micro-meteor impacts and routine system failures, and may have just registered the total loss of signal from the rear half of the ship as a glitch rather than an actual loss.


Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:04 am
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Post Re: Page 105 discussion
It's partly deliberate misdirection (it's supposed to be a surprise that the ship has been cut in two), but partly realistic, I think. There are going to be a finite number of physical sensors distributed around the ship, and after the initial moment of the hit, many of them in the damaged area are going to go off-scale high and then fail, so you're not going to get a perfectly clear picture of the damage as you might in a videogame.

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