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Outcast Quest [Updated 25/9/16 - Turn Thirteen Results] 
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
Oh yes, bring on that sweet science annex!

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Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:19 pm
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]
Razor One wrote:
Martial:
[X] Combat Exercises: Commander O'Malley wants to run a series of combat simulations aimed at determining how best to defend the colony in case of an incursion by Urkuk or something worse.

Cost: 0, Time: 1 Month, Chance of Success: 40%, Reward: A better idea of how you'll fare in a worst case scenario.
I do not understand this obsesion with whales. They can wait until the colony is actually prepared to deal with them and profit from them.

Razor One wrote:
Diplomacy:
[X] Working Relations: Until recently you've kept the Loroi under guard and interacting with your military personnel only. With your recent successes in introducing them to your civilian population and their general itch to do something, it may be time to offer them some work on a purely voluntary basis.

Cost: 0, Time: 1 Month, Chance of Success: ???, Reward: ???
I sort of prefer Colonial Authority, but that probably can wait for now.

Razor One wrote:
Stewardship:
I'm not going to engage in planning right now.

Razor One wrote:
Intrigue:
Probably sonar.

Razor One wrote:
Learning:
[] Loroi Biochemistry: Doctor Campos would like to do a more detailed study into Loroi biochemistry to determine with certainty what foods the Loroi can handle as well as derive what nutrients they require to fully recover from their ordeal in addition to what medicines they're able to consume.

Cost: 0, Value Needed: 454 / 650, Difficulty: Medium (2d100 + Learning), Reward: Knowledge of what is and is not toxic to Loroi biochemistry.

[snip]

[] Drone Design: Some of your civilian engineers want some time to continue designing those sensor drones they proposed to you.

Cost: 0, Value Needed: 264 / 500, Difficulty: Hard (1d100 + Learning), Reward: Disposable sensor drone capable of extending your sensor range.
Both of these should be researched soon.

Razor One wrote:
Personal:
Don't really care right now.

Razor One wrote:
A sudden craving for cheese has swept through the colony. You are not immune.
It should be possible to approximate from sugar, water, fat, and yeast. Not as good as the real stuff, but tolerable. For stronger flavor, add more yeast.


Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:26 pm
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
I see that Razor put in some minor changes in our stewardship options, made docks cheaper and quicker while making drydocks longer and more expensive. This works well for our building budget.

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Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:23 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
We do have a supply of milk, in fact we have about 128 milk producing assets right now. However I doubt that they would like to be industrially milked.

Also @Absalom; where can we get fat though?

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Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:25 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]
Absalom wrote:
I do not understand this obsesion with whales. They can wait until the colony is actually prepared to deal with them and profit from them.


Our last round of whaling gave us effectively four turns of free research, doubled the effectiveness of a building we already intend to build, and unlocked the ability to improve our travel times through the nebula by more than a factor of eight. I'd say that's pretty worth wanting a second helping of, especially since right now we can do whaling twice as quickly as we normally would be able to.

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Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:19 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
Also, whaling is now effectively free.

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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
I second Dragoongfa's plan. I also would like to introduce an expansion to our agriculture center in order to - 1. introduce pollination plants for better honey, 2 diversify our crops even more, and 3 increase our food surplus for trade and travel purposes.

Additionally, we're going to have to make some defenses for the colony when the ship is gone, right now the ship constitutes the bulk of our firepower (and it's sort of lightly armed as well). We really need to think about how to include beefing up point defense, missiles, and lasers (and perhaps the introduction of drones) before being comfortable leaving the colony for what may be a 3 month trip.

What do you guys think. Finish warehouse, then an additional agri-center, meanwhile build a missile factory or CIWS? Also, how should we upgrade our ship's defenses?

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Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:36 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
We don't have a lot of time before the 1 year period that we gave to the Loroi children expire. In fact round 20 marks its end. Right now we need 5 months without a hitch for L-amour to be fixed up with the corkscrew engines.

CIWS needs 3 months to be built up and it will be somewhat expensive

Droning is also a valid avenue but it will be turns that don't go for the cure's research.

EDIT: Also we don't have pollination plants at our disposal and our crops are diversified with all that we have while our surplus is very good right now and its going to be even better at turn 15. With this in mind an Agri Center should be at the bottom of our priority list.

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Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:58 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
I see. I didn't realize we didn't have plants that need bees to pollinate... which seems strange since we have bees? Isn't that kind of a huge oversight when planning a trip?

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Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:54 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
Mea Culpa on that, thought that the staples needed bees but we realized that they didn't after the fact. Still not a huge problem and it is something that is unique to us for later trading.

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Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:03 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
Yes, true it's not so important. I had another thought when I was thinking about the necessary things to bring along on the trip to the Loroi. We should bring along a cultural exchange device of some kind as well as a diplomatic gift of respect. Obviously, we're doing them a huge favor by bringing back their kids and we don't want to appear weak or too much like a supplicant but forethought could give an appearance of strength as well as tact and intelligence. Also, when you give a gift usually you get one back ^_^.

What do you guys think?

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Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:24 pm
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
Its a good idea but we will discuss it when the time comes, probably with Lieutenant Izumi.

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Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:57 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
dragoongfa wrote:
We do have a supply of milk, in fact we have about 128 milk producing assets right now. However I doubt that they would like to be industrially milked.
That stuff's thin anyways.

dragoongfa wrote:
Also @Absalom; where can we get fat though?
It'll have to be separated out of yeast. Algae is a better source, but not by that much.

At any rate, fat is a literal requirement of the human diet, to the extent that you die without it, so the colonists better hope that they have enough in their diets (and the doctor surely would have told the captain if it was in short supply). Also, base material for one of the simplest soap recipies, so sooner or later it'll need to be produced in small-scale lab or industrial volumes. Probably super-critical extraction will be the best option, since CO2 both does a good job in that situation, and largely prevents oxidization (also, likely easy to remove).

Did you guys buy oaks? Acorn fats have enough flavor to produce distinctly different pork, so it might be useful for a difference in flavor.

Shrewfoot wrote:
and 3 increase our food surplus for trade and travel purposes.

Additionally, we're going to have to make some defenses for the colony when the ship is gone, right now the ship constitutes the bulk of our firepower (and it's sort of lightly armed as well). We really need to think about how to include beefing up point defense, missiles, and lasers (and perhaps the introduction of drones) before being comfortable leaving the colony for what may be a 3 month trip.
Now this is the line of thinking that I think should be followed right now. If the plan is to leave on time, then all resources should be focussed on that, not on larking off on quests that won't be important for quite some time afterwards.

Shrewfoot wrote:
I see. I didn't realize we didn't have plants that need bees to pollinate... which seems strange since we have bees? Isn't that kind of a huge oversight when planning a trip?
The majority of the population in post-industrial countries is supposedly at least three generations removed from the farm. That, and the hints I left were apparently too subtle.

Shrewfoot wrote:
Yes, true it's not so important. I had another thought when I was thinking about the necessary things to bring along on the trip to the Loroi. We should bring along a cultural exchange device of some kind as well as a diplomatic gift of respect. Obviously, we're doing them a huge favor by bringing back their kids and we don't want to appear weak or too much like a supplicant but forethought could give an appearance of strength as well as tact and intelligence. Also, when you give a gift usually you get one back ^_^.

What do you guys think?
It's mostly guaranteed that we'll try to get something in exchange for the collars, especially since the Loroi children already know about them (makes us seem less hostile if we're willing to let go of them). Beyond that, the only thing that seems both safe and actually interesting to let go of at the moment is whatever honey might be produced before the expedition begins (chocolate is currently irreplaceable, whereas honey will be produced in ongoing, albeit likely small, amounts for the forseeable future). If we can trade for something that produces a nectar analogue, then superior honey can likely be produced thereafter. The same applies if the fruit trees are developed (though not the cocoa trees! Those require flies!).

Cheese and milk will not be a good trade goods at this point, and cheese at least probably shouldn't even be tried in any serious fashion until the lab is operational, and even then will be mediocre for some time afterwards. Also, it'll probably stink up the entire place.

Alcohol is much the same: you can't really produce much in the facilities casually available right now, so it won't be made in quantities sufficient for trade, and even if it was it usually takes a fair bit of experience before the brewer upgrades their skills from "dreadful" to "passable".


Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:54 pm
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
@Absalom We do have Oak Trees, Orange Trees, Cocoa Trees and Insects for genetic samples

The problem is that we need the Bio Lab to get them out.

But that's for later, I echo the sentiment to get our defences beefed up, in this turn I do want Whalers but from the next we will have to invest in CIWS for the colony which when doubled with the laser battery should be enough to fend off a small Urkuk flotilla.

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Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 3/8/16 - Tactical Turn Results]
Siber wrote:
Absalom wrote:
I do not understand this obsesion with whales. They can wait until the colony is actually prepared to deal with them and profit from them.


Our last round of whaling gave us effectively four turns of free research, doubled the effectiveness of a building we already intend to build, and unlocked the ability to improve our travel times through the nebula by more than a factor of eight. I'd say that's pretty worth wanting a second helping of, especially since right now we can do whaling twice as quickly as we normally would be able to.
The improvement to the recycling center is nice, but the only other thing that could have a near-term impact is the +10 to whaling operations: cyclic benefits are only truely benefits when they somehow contribute to something else, and right now the colony is running towards a deadline. The main benefit to whaling right now is that it's only cost is 1 action.

dragoongfa wrote:
@Absalom We do have Oak Trees,
Good. Between whiskey/etc. barrels, acorn flour, and acorn oil, that will provide an improvement to the diversity of the flavors available to the colony.

Incidentally, I don't know if corn is being grown at the moment, but if it is, then a sugary syrup can be extracted from the stalks. Hopefully one of the palms will have a full "bootstraping sample" in the data drives. Looking around, I somewhat regret the absence of Sycamores (for a butterscotch-like sap flavor), but it's not like that was an option (they grow to be huge anyways, where would a new colony fit one?).

dragoongfa wrote:
Orange Trees, Cocoa Trees and Insects for genetic samples

The problem is that we need the Bio Lab to get them out.

But that's for later, I echo the sentiment to get our defences beefed up, in this turn I do want Whalers but from the next we will have to invest in CIWS for the colony which when doubled with the laser battery should be enough to fend off a small Urkuk flotilla.
I still favor Combat Exercises first. If there are any deficiencies it should help identify them, if it fails we'll probably get some small bonus to future attempts, and if done before investing in defenses it'll likely make CIWS & similar either cheaper, more effective, or both. If directly useful resources could be extracted from the whales then it would be a different matter, but whales are just a shot in the dark right now. If it were possible to use them like sled dogs in the forseeable future then it might be worth a shot in my book, but I don't think that's likely to happen until they've been observed in the wild for quite some time (mantas would probably be more practical, anyways).

Edited in: I think I should remind you that the Urkuk are not a likely threat: the Hadrekak or Nafen are far more likely to show up, and this link implies that only the Hadrekak might be amenable to negotiations (regretfully, I think it was implied a few posts ago that one of the other sites, specifically the Fortress, was the only that might have a Hadrekak encounter, thus limiting this one to Nafen).


Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:08 pm
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
The main argument in favor of getting the whales one more time is the fact that they don't seem to suffer from jump sickness. Getting a sample that somehow helps with that may cut down the research time significantly. Also the corkscrew engines are now a thing which is why the drydock is a priority in my plan, as it will cut the travel time significantly.

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Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:54 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
It might even be faster spending a turn or three to finalise reasearch and drydocks and still be faster getting the Loroi kids home...

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Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:16 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
dragoongfa wrote:
The main argument in favor of getting the whales one more time is the fact that they don't seem to suffer from jump sickness.
Several of us have already pointed out that getting a cure to jump sickness from the whales isn't realistic, and when you went with Whale Brain on the theory that it would provide something it went towards hunting instead. Among other things the whales would need to be researched in a biolab to even try to figure out why (or if, since they may just push through it) they're immune to jump sickness because we haven't really been able to study jump sickness before, and we haven't even built a science annex yet so we don't have a biolab. Mantas won't help on that either, it's a big problem which calls for at least a biolab. On top of that, we don't need whales and mantas for the immunity issue, because Razor has pointed out that Colonel Pierce is immune, and he's human so anything learned from him is directly relevant to the crew, while anything from the whales will have to be completely translated between two completely unrelated species (Humans and Space Whales). If you really want to get jump sickness fixed fast then aim for a biolab, and possibly a physics lab (it's possible the dispersed nature of whale brains is their solution, in which case we'll need a physics solution because humans can't use that solution), not for whales. Finally, if whales can help with Jump Sickness, it will require researching Human jump sickness first, which we haven't done.

Whales are a blind-fire distraction, and we have no reason to think that they will help with jump sickness.

If you want to focus on Jump Sickness, then focus on Science Annex, then decide between Physics Lab and Biolab: both are applicable, they simple approach the problem from different angles. Also Science Annex both provides better research, and apparently allows a second research project to go on at the same time.

At the same time, start researching Jump Sickness and don't stop until it's finished. The math says that there's only a 2/3 chance (or maybe 1/3? Probabilities have never been a point of attention for me.) of finishing it before turn 20 without the Annex, so if you want it done before leaving, then it must be reasearched starting now, and never stopping until it's finished. One the Science Annex is up, I'd advise Jump Transit for the second slot, since it's fast (50% chance of being finished at 3 turns, possibility of being finished in 2 turns) and directly relevant (so might contribute to Sickness research). Loroi Biochem is more of a long-shot, and is more relevant to the possibility of future envoys than to Jump Sickness.

tl;dr:

At any rate, since you're going to ignore anything that you don't like anyways, if you have to hunt down whales then at least research the Pulsating Membrane, and Vile Cysts, since one of those might be related to inertial control or something, and therefor of possible relevance to jump sickness. It's a shot in the dark, but the rest of it (e.g. brain) won't realistically be of help, or is too much of a shot in the dark.

And for goodness sake, don't research Loroi Biochemistry right now if you mostly care about Jump Sickness. Science Annex + Biolab means that we'll only have to average 38 on the rolls to get it in 1 turn even without the computers auto-researching for us, it can wait a lot easier than Jump Sickness.


Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:49 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
Science Annex is under plan already and currently whale hunting is a completely free action as No RUs are needed while it has 70% +10 chances of success which will translate to numerous other critical breakthroughs that may be related to a lot of stuff that will help on critical areas before we leave. Even if Jump Sickness isn't among them we may find something else critical important.

As for defenses we have two choices at turn 14 (three if you count whales): Either CIWS or Combat exercises (I doubt that the whales will stay longer than this). CIWS costs 5000RUs which puts us overbudget in the RU department. This leads me to push for combat exercises at turn 14 as I doubt that the whales will stay put into that turn.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

As for research: Loroi Biochem might help with the jump sickness or it might just save one of our guests if an accident happens, with a single turn and the rest being let at the computer we cover all our bases.

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Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:41 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 29/8/16 - Turn Thirteen]
Survey is up, Please vote here.

Apologies for the delay. This last week has been hectic with multiple birthdays all falling in the same week. I also need to renew both my passports, my license, and organise a visit to a friend interstate whilst tiptoeing around my boss, since this is a bad time to be taking time off.

Of course, if I manage to actually get that time off, the only excuse I'll have to dither on updating will be personal laziness. :P

Regarding the honey production, the quality is quite poor at the moment. It's basically just an expensive sweetener and it's keeping your bees on life support for now. You could trade it, but most compatible life forms would probably prefer the sugar you're getting from decomposed maltose and using as feedstock to what your bees are producing right now. Get some flowering plants that won't kill your bees, and the quality of the honey will get better.

The flowering plants thing was a player oversight during the planning stages. Berries were included to cover for that as both flowering plants and as conserves for both food production and trade, but players opted out of that. Granted it may have been a bit opaque a decision from a gameplay perspective.

From an in-universe perspective, you were a resupply vessel. The colony you were going to already had flowering plants in need of bees, either from a prior supply mission or one due to arrive after yours. Earth's offworld colonies enjoy support from more established regions for a long time before they're able to function independently, and even after they're at that theoretical threshold, often remain dependant on offworld supply networks since it may well be cheaper to buy things offworld than to manufacture them locally.

All told, you're working with extremely limited supply and population and you're doing very well. That being said, it would be of an enormous benefit to you to establish trade links with developed economies to help yours along.

And regarding trade, I had this in my old notes:

Current
L'Amour Units
Raw Materials 8000
Medical Supplies 0
Chocolate 900
Mining Equipment 0
Potatoes 0
Yeast 0
Industrial Equipment 2500
Data Drives 500
Scientific Equipment 1000
Bio-Containment 3000
Passengers 0
Crew Errata 250
Total 16150
Capacity 30000

Granted, that's not 100% current. Here's what it would look like now:

Current
L'Amour Units
Raw Materials 6000
Medical Supplies 0
Chocolate 900
Mining Equipment 0
Potatoes 0
Yeast 0
Industrial Equipment 0
Data Drives 500
Scientific Equipment 1000
Bio-Containment 3000
Passengers 0
Crew Errata 250
Total 11650
Capacity 30000
Available 18350

Basically an itemised list of your current cargo hold and available space. The L'Amour was a dedicated military transport, so you've got quite a bit of room. If you leave as soon as possible it's doubtful you'll be able to fill out the hold. On the other hand, even if you try to max out, it's doubtful you could fill the hold and keep your promise to Spear.

Regarding the whales: their young appear to require a bit more nursing before they can leave. Current growth rate projections pin the earliest date they can leave at Turn 15 or 16, though whether they choose to leave ASAP or linger is up in the air as you don't know a whole lot about their life cycle at present other than "massive egg, enormous spawning grounds".

If there's any mistakes in the vote, let me know.

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Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:29 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 12/9/16 - Survey Up]
Voted:

Whalers
Working Relations
Science Annex
Docks
Keeping an ear out
Loroi Biochem (for the last time, whether it finishes or not)
Time with Spear

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Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:20 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 12/9/16 - Survey Up]
Dragoongfa seconded. Moar research!

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Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:07 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 12/9/16 - Survey Up]
Well, I voted before I saw any replies here, and am replying now, as it seems that I accidentally voted all the same as dragoongfa did.

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Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:35 am
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 12/9/16 - Survey Up]
I have also voted.

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Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:21 pm
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Post Re: Outcast Quest [Updated 12/9/16 - Survey Up]
Pardon my intrusion, but why research Loroi biochem? That will be researched all by its own, in time. The captain seems to have a little bit of an unhealthy fixation on those blue space elf kids. ;) The most important thing is to deal with the jump sickness that's crippling you before it gets even worse. I also find it exceedingly strange that no one EVER even considered going through the sensor logs to find out what happened. Is it just the intellectual impairment of the jump sickness, an unconscious defence of shying away from that trauma or something more sinister? Are the Loroi controlling our leaders so that they focus all energy on getting them home instead of their own survival? :shock:


Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:50 am
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