Stars in Shadow

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Arioch
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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by Arioch »

Carl Miller wrote:I'm not sure what surgery Talon needs in order to stop coughing up hard drives, but it sounds expensive, especially since hospitals in this world, not being the TdSmR-verse, don't have stocks of loroi blood. :mrgreen:
Unfortunately I lost a lot of data, as I had been using my backup drive to transport files during my recent Canada trip, but on the bright side I'll be replacing the hard disk with a much faster SSD, so Talon should be a better performer when all is done.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by dragoongfa »

Time for a first impressions review about Stars in Shadow after spending about three hours on it and without reading anything about it previously.

Its an above average early access game in terms of functionality and approach-ability; it is mid beta in terms of missing or unfinished portions of the game. The UI needs streamlining and there are some missing elements in regards to ground fighting, missing texts and some minor bugs here and there. When compared with the rest of Early Access games this entry represent what early access should have been: Highly functioning and approachable games pushed out of the door for a variety of reasons, whether financial need or streamlining after player input.

Visually the game scores exceptionally well when compared with the vast majority of indie games out there, it stands out on this department and the unique look allows it to dodge the comparison with AAA games.

On the Gameplay front its a run of the mill 4X game, if you have played other 4X games you will recognize all strategic gameplay mechanics almost instantly. Beyond the somewhat non-intuitive UI it does function properly which allows the player to focus the game's strong point: The turn based tactical combat which is expanded by the ship building system.

I haven't delved into the mechanics much but the potential of an awesome turn based strategy battle system is there and so far the AI seems competent even on low difficulty levels, hopefully with larger fleets and competent AI the TBS aspect of the game will allow for some much needed longevity to the game itself.

The game suffers on the sound front, the music is good but repeats and will get stale after a while. The UI sounds need some expansion for some much needed feedback and there need to be some short of minor theme music for each race when conversing with them via diplomacy and even when battling them.

Overall its a competent 4X game that satisfies the itch but it still needs work, streamlining and by the looks of things some finalized end game content.

As it stands now it is a 7 out of 10. 4X Fans will appreciate it and spend hours on it but the UI needs to be streamlined very soon if the first players are to return to it quickly after the initial rush is finished.

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Arioch
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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by Arioch »

dragoongfa wrote:Time for a first impressions review about Stars in Shadow after spending about three hours on it and without reading anything about it previously.
Thanks for the feedback.

We have a long list of TODO's in terms of improving the UI, but I'm interested to know what bits specifically you found unintuitive or felt are in need of streamlining.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Arioch wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:Time for a first impressions review about Stars in Shadow after spending about three hours on it and without reading anything about it previously.
Thanks for the feedback.

We have a long list of TODO's in terms of improving the UI, but I'm interested to know what bits specifically you found unintuitive or felt are in need of streamlining.
Is this an acceptable place to put such? I haven't gotten to play it yet - tinkering on a D&D homebrew campaign is hard, then someone distracted me by saying "Heroes?" and I went to play a siege tank dropping hellfire on primitive screwheads whilst archangels, demons, and protoss dueled all around me, but I'll get to it.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by dragoongfa »

Arioch wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:Time for a first impressions review about Stars in Shadow after spending about three hours on it and without reading anything about it previously.
Thanks for the feedback.

We have a long list of TODO's in terms of improving the UI, but I'm interested to know what bits specifically you found unintuitive or felt are in need of streamlining.
I will delve in the game some more before putting some feedback down but the most glaring issue for the time being is having to refit each ship separately which is something that you guys are already working on.

There are some more pet peeves of mine but I will see if I missed something obvious before saying that they need work.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Just started things up.

First impressions:

The font and icons used for the title screen and informing the player that their maps are being generated may be offputtingly cartoony to some players. It bears an unfortunate resemblance to Comic Sans, and years and years of memeing have left Comic Sans and fonts which resemble it as the butt of a joke, the punchline of which is typically a sense of slipshoddiness.

Additionally, I think some players may be highly offput by humanity being the "Hardmode gonna get shrekt!" option, because a lot of first-time players are likely to gravitate towards the human race, which in video games is traditionally the "no special bonuses or penalties" race. Also, aesthetically speaking, I think a lot of players would be biased towards a human, or humanoid (think Star Trek rubber forehead alien) race, than the distinctive not-very-humanlike other races on offer. I'm not saying the other races in question are bad, or even bad looking, I just think some players might not like to play them, and might be offput by being forced to choose between the familiar and hardmode start, or that which is offputting in the long run.

Anyway, that having been said... I'm looking forward to digging into this, now I dunno what to start researching first. (That's a good sign.)

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

A few more early thoughts:

It might be nice to draw the player's attention if they colonize a world where their people are going to be starving and they need to buy a farm right away to stop that. (It might be nicer to have the colony set-up include a pity farm capable of feeding the starting colonists.) I had to spend basically all my starting cash (as humans) getting from my outpost to a planet I could habitate, by way of dropping a farm on a mars-like planet to provide a jump range extender.

It might be nice to let ships exceed their "bingo" range, which I presume is modeled as the distance they can jump to and return to their nearest fuel source, with the understanding that it's a one-way trip. I had a habitable world inside my scout's bingo range, but juuuuuust outside of my transports' range.

Also, the game stopped responding to me when I bombarded a planet, I was obliged to blindly kill it with the task manager.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

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ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Also, the game stopped responding to me when I bombarded a planet, I was obliged to blindly kill it with the task manager.
I think there may be a new bug where the game hangs if you kill all population with bombardment.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by dragoongfa »

In order not to clatter the thread I will post my suggestions on this post as they come to me:

Streamlining:

1: Either a shorting function for the current research menu or a standard tech tree to the research screen in order to make researching more approachable. A compromise between the two is possible, with an easy and quick small menu with a shorting function and an expanded tech tree on a secondary screen in order to see the full tech path. The ability to queue research would also be nice.

2: Planet info side panel. Currently they are auto shorted by population but the side panel can be expanded somewhat. Having the planets showed there grouped in a per system basis would be nice as an Empire management screen. Showing some additional info as built buildings, construction queues and orbiting stations would also be nice.

3: Ship differentiation. Currently selecting the right ship for the job is a chore. The model system of the game doesn't allow for a standard 'at a glance' differentiation between the various player made classes but the implementation of a differently colored 'shade' or perhaps a visual overlay on each ship model would perhaps help the player in immediately recognizing each different class of ship during the mid and late game.

Gameplay additions:

1: Blockades. Perhaps its already implemented but I haven't gone that far in my games yet. The current auto-transportation of food and metals should allow for the easy implementation of a blockade system when an enemy fleet is within the system, this should cut off all the planets within that system from each other and the rest of the Empire which would bring forth starvation and economic and industrial strangulation depending on population size (more populace cut off should translate to a lesser monetary income via trade), metal production and food production. An option to allow or forbid the passing of food should be included for the reputation mechanics:

A) Allowing food to pass freely in and out on all blockaded systems: Positive reputation impact as the rest of the enemy empire is unaffected if a bread basket system happens to be blockade.
B) Allowing food to only come in: No hit or bonus, the rest of the empire may suffer a little if a bread basket system blockaded but there wont be a die out if a net importer gets blockaded.
C) No food transportation whatsoever: Negative reputation impact as food shortages will mean mass die outs.

2: Capability for Human Empires to buy/bribe human pirate fleets. Balanced with a negative hit in reputation with aliens but a positive hit in planetary morale.

Gameplay/UI issues:

1: Neutral fleets in system. A neutral fleet was in system and I got the little 'battle' bubble next to the star system in the map. Thinking that I was attacked I clicked the auto resolve which ended up with me declaring a war on them without receiving any short of pop up warning. I know now that nothing would have happened if I did nothing but it was confusing at that moment as the little 'battle bubble' made me believe that I was under attack when I was not.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Arioch wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:Also, the game stopped responding to me when I bombarded a planet, I was obliged to blindly kill it with the task manager.
I think there may be a new bug where the game hangs if you kill all population with bombardment.
Ah, that would constitute a problem in the situation I'm in. Some alien arseholes (as differentiated from the perfectly reasonable aliens,) decided to declare war on me, with the stated reason of "we want your territory." Obviously, that was not kosher, but I was not set up in any way for invasions. They had also unwisely settled three planets in two systems already in my jump range.

So I baited the defense fleet from the system that had actually useful planets with a scout, jumped in some warships, and planned to proceed to wipe them out... But that bug has kind of put the kibosh on that.

So, how do you invade planets, anyway?

[e]Yep, just tried it again. Definitely bugged. :(

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by Arioch »

To invade a planet you need to build ground forces and load them onto transports (or build the "troop transport" option, which includes both).

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Arioch wrote:To invade a planet you need to build ground forces and load them onto transports (or build the "troop transport" option, which includes both).
Thanks.

Found another problem, though.

The Yorgal declared war on me for $REASONS.
They didn't come at me in like, ten turns. Eventually, I said "this is stupid, let's end this war."

I paid 100 Influence to end the war, 80 to establish embassies again, 80 to establish trade again...

And the very next turn, they declared war again.


THIS NEEDS TO BE ADRESSED! The player shouldn't be allowed to spend a metric assload of influence to accomplish something only to have it immediately undone by the AI going "Psych!" Either the AI should be bound by its agreements to end wars for a nice long time (like, 80-100 turns minimum,) or it should reject peace offers if it's just going to declare again next turn.


[e]Also, a minor thing that I just found; the Windows Hotkey doesn't just alt-tab from Stars, it changes Stars from Fullscreen to Windowed mode. Alt-Enter doesn't, however, nor does it change it back.

[e2] Found an amusing typo in the description of missile Cruisers. It references "Missile duals" when it probably meant "duels."

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by Arioch »

The diplomacy system is brand new, and there's a lot that still needs to be added to it, not least of which is AI handling.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Arioch wrote:The diplomacy system is brand new, and there's a lot that still needs to be added to it, not least of which is AI handling.
Fair 'nuff, I'm just saying, it was quite a rude surprise to basically influence-bribe them with an asston of influence, basically saying "Look, you guys, some things were said, but we're willing to let bygones be bygones. We cool?" And they said "Sure, we cool," and then immediately afterwards go "Psych! Heil Hitler!" (Nobody's gonna get that reference, are they?)

So of course, I had to bombardinate the crap out of several worlds and invade them before they got the point...

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by Absalom »

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:The Yorgal declared war on me for $REASONS.
They didn't come at me in like, ten turns. Eventually, I said "this is stupid, let's end this war."

I paid 100 Influence to end the war, 80 to establish embassies again, 80 to establish trade again...

And the very next turn, they declared war again.


THIS NEEDS TO BE ADRESSED! The player shouldn't be allowed to spend a metric assload of influence to accomplish something only to have it immediately undone by the AI going "Psych!" Either the AI should be bound by its agreements to end wars for a nice long time (like, 80-100 turns minimum,) or it should reject peace offers if it's just going to declare again next turn.
Really? I would just throw in a negative reputation hit on them, and have the AI take that into account. Potentially more variety in the gameplay that way.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

Absalom wrote:
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:The Yorgal declared war on me for $REASONS.
They didn't come at me in like, ten turns. Eventually, I said "this is stupid, let's end this war."

I paid 100 Influence to end the war, 80 to establish embassies again, 80 to establish trade again...

And the very next turn, they declared war again.


THIS NEEDS TO BE ADRESSED! The player shouldn't be allowed to spend a metric assload of influence to accomplish something only to have it immediately undone by the AI going "Psych!" Either the AI should be bound by its agreements to end wars for a nice long time (like, 80-100 turns minimum,) or it should reject peace offers if it's just going to declare again next turn.
Really? I would just throw in a negative reputation hit on them, and have the AI take that into account. Potentially more variety in the gameplay that way.
It would need to be huge: nobody should ever again want to trust the guy who just signed a peace treaty and then pulled a "Psych! Heil Hitler!" on someone.

I mean, I'm all for not outright prohibiting actions in video games, because it can get absurd. Consider Stellaris: "There's galaxy-devouring monsters on the far side of this galaxy. We have a fleet that can stop them, but only if we can get to and take their beachhead so they're warping into hostile territory. We WANT to go and get them, but some tiny, pissant pack of radical pacifists refuses to open their borders to us for any reason. We would like to say "screw you guys" and fly across their space, but we shouldn't have to declare all-out war on them to do so."

But there should be consequences for doing things like, say, reneging on your word, or violating someone else's territory.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by Krulle »

Arioch wrote:To invade a planet you need to build ground forces and load them onto transports (or build the "troop transport" option, which includes both).
That's why I always play Elerian, or Custom Race with the appropriate pick...
Oh, wait, that's Master of Orion 2.
DosBox loading again....
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

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dragoongfa
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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by dragoongfa »

Gameplay Issues: AI lags in research and/or mounting weapons.

I initially thought that the slavers tech too fast when compared with the player and the AI as they currently have Large Railguns and Fusion Missiles mounted on their planets when the AI still has Lasers and Nuclear Torpedoes mounted on their ships. I am at stardate 1304 which means that either the AI is slacking on the research department or their ships aren't properly outfitted with what they currently have.

Considering that I do observe progression in AI tech I think that the AI just doesn't refit its past designs. Could be intentional or non implemented.

EDIT: Yes the lack of an automated Refit is by far the worse problem of the game in its current iteration, I know that it is being worked on but I just can't not comment on it.

In order to properly have a refit system a few things need to be included:

1: Refit queue
2: To refit based on existing blueprints
3: The ability to select multiple ships for refit
4: A semi automatic 'hide obsolete equipment' function when editing current designs, the ability to mark certain weapons as obsolete would also be nice

As it stands now the lategame is an extreme chore as trying to refit dozens of ships one by one is a nightmare.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by ShadowDragon8685 »

One thing I'm wondering about: Is the AI opportunistically comparing their fleet strength to yours when deciding when to go to war?

They should also compare industrial base, economic and metal base, too. When the fuzzies decided to claw my bollocks off and I said "naw," I was able to basically conjure a fleet out of wholecloth inside of ten turns and kick them inna nuts on even terms.

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Re: Stars in Shadow

Post by Arioch »

The two major additions we are making to the refit system are:

A - option to refit to existing design (instead of having to choose components manually for each ship)

B - mass refit (the ability to instantly refit all ships in a class with a currency payment instead of production)

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