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Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities? 
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Post Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
I recently read up a lot on Star Wars lore and apparently, in ancient time the galaxy was dominated by a race that enslaved everything in sigh, including humans. They where aided in this by their close affinity with the dark side of the force and much of their technology was based on it. Then something happened and they gradually lost their connection to the force.

So what happen to the loroi if something happened to them so they gradually became just as mundane as humans?


Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:19 am
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
It would depend a lot on how the loss occurs.

If children began to be born "quiet" I suspect the Loroi would dispose of them as defective. They would ramp up "production" and cull the silent ones for a while (perhaps quite a while), until it became apparent that something more fundamental was happening. New teaching methods and psi-less technology would have to be created at this point, borrowing heavily from the other union races I suspect.

If adults began to lose psi ability they had all their lives, Loroi society would have to make changes more quickly. I believe the Loroi have some experience with this problem on a small scale(farseer burnout). There would be much more opposition to simply eliminating the newly defective than there would be in the "born that way" scenario. Economically, the time and energy used to raise and train them would have already been spent. Emotionally, they had made connections and contributions to society before losing their ability, you can't just dispose of them now. There would also be an element of self preservation as well. "There but for the grace of God go I". As more people begin to fall the knowledge that "it will happen to everyone eventually" will really force society to change.

I suspect the more psi intensive powers would be lost first: telekinetics, then telepathy, then empathy. Fortunately for the Loroi, they don't have to reinvent the wheel. They can learn from the other Union members how to train their young without using telepathy. From what we have seen, telekinetics isn't universal so very few machines rely on having that ability and can be re-engineered. Bias against spoken words should fade fairly quickly. The use of computers should become even more pronounced.

The loss would cause major headaches within the union, but I don't think it would be a civilization ending disaster. The balance of power may shift but even without psi powers, Loroi remain the largest population and have the most guns. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:44 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
Their entire civilization would rip itself to pieces in a matter of days, if not hours. One of the reasons the Elerians (the race the Loroi are loosely based upon) didn't live to see Master of Orion 3 was that the Antarens infected the Elerian emperor with a telepathic virus that rendered her psi-less. Cue the inevitable civil war.

If the entirety of the Loroi civilization losses their psionic abilities? They'd go insane inside of a few days. It would be as bad, if not worse than every human losing their senses of sight, taste, sound, smell and touch at the same time. Human civilization would crumble inside of a few hours. We just wouldn't be able to function without them.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
hi hi

I don't think the Loroi losing the psi abilities would be as bad as Grayhome suggests. I'd wager it would probably be less bad than the events in the movie Blindness (2008), since Loroi already have infrastructure in place to deal with communication over distances without telepathy.

On the other hand, without farseers, they would almost certainly lose the war in relatively short order.

Heck, even if the Umiak are lying about bypassing the Loroi citadel in a surprise attack, if they are able to outfit all of their ships with their telepathy jamming whatever it is, the Loroi are still going to be in a major tactical and logistical disadvantage from that point on.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:30 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
Gurps says Telepaths become addicted to telepathic interaction and go mad without it. But hey, to each their own.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:54 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
hi hi

Outsider isn't GURPS, and from what I can tell in the Insider information, the Golim are the only ones who might qualify for telepathy addiction. And there is some reason to suggest that it is not the case for the Loroi, such as Fireblade, who apparently spend a lot of time alone, without telepathic interaction.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:50 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
*shrug* How quickly does a human go crazy when they cannot verbally communicate with other humans? When we're talking about a species losing the primary means of communication we're talking about a catastrophe level event. That's before the psychological damage of having what separates them from inferior aliens stripped from them sinks in.

I cannot help but think that people aren't really pondering over what telepathy really means to the Loroi in the Outsider-verse, physically, mentally, economically, politically, culturally, socially, militarily, etc. It is their way of life. To have it suddenly removed would have devastating and far reaching consequences both for the Loroi and neighboring nations.

Which is of course, why I have long believed that the Loroi being stripped of their telepathy will play a roll in the comic's future. It's far, far too juicy a plot point to pass up on. If the Loroi were engineered to be telepathic (and we have every reason to believe they were), then they can have telepathy engineered out.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:46 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
hi hi

Humans don't go crazy very quickly if at all when they're not able to verbally communicate. There are blind people and deaf people that are able to live happy and fulfilling lives. Helen Keller, for example, was both deaf and blind from the age of 19 months, and her writings continue to be renowned. (Enough to earn her the Presidential Medal of Freedom.)

We're not talking about total sensory deprivation here. It would surely be a major blow to the Loroi to lose their telepathy, but going insane? I don't see any positive case for going insane.

Anyways, the invading Umiak fleets, approaching unseen by farseers, would probably be more devastating than any other social upheaval.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:17 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
People commit suicide from losing one of their primary senses but we're not talking about people being born without a racial ability, we're talking about an entire species losing their primary means of communication.

It would be at least as devastating as all of humanity suddenly losing their ability to speak to each other, as well as the ability to read and write. I strongly disagree with your analysis that humans would carry on business as usual if such an event were to happen to us.


Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:50 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
If humans suddenly lost the ability to speak, this would obviously be a shock to the system and it would greatly upset things, but we do have an alternate form of communication (writing). Some people might not be able to cope, but I think most would adjust pretty quickly. My own job is not dependent in any way on being able to speak, and most of my professional communication is in writing anyway, so my livelihood and daily activity would probably not be greatly affected. An actor or singer or other profession that depended on voice would be harder hit, of course, but such professions that I can think of are not critical to the functioning of society. In the longer term, people might turn to sign language. It would be difficult transition, but I don't see any cause for mass suicide or implosion of society or civil war just because communication got a little bit harder. (If people didn't understand why this had happened, that might cause some panic.)

Loss of telepathy would be harder on the Loroi, as it does more for them than simple communication, but they do have alternatives (spoken and written language), and so should be able to at least function in the short term. There would be longer-term societal problems as they would have to find alternatives for the sense of community and intimacy that telepathy provides, and it would be a blow to the racial ego. Maybe they would develop new communal speaking rituals, or become hyper-sexualized. In any case this would take time and would be a more difficult transition, but I think most Loroi would find a way to cope. Again I don't necessarily see any inevitable cause for complete dissolution of society or civil war, although I suppose when compounded with the other stresses of the war at a critical moment it could be the last straw.

Sudden loss of Farsensing ability would be a serious strategic problem.

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Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:22 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
on a similar note, solitary confinement! that shit will eff you up quickly and i speak from experience here.
you might think 'hey, i spend most my time on the net anyway! and people are annoying! me? i like being alone!' yeah that's what i thought, but there is that confinement bit which buggers that which as a bonus also instills a unhealthy dose of uncertainty, fear and outright terror.
48 hours and i was ready to suicide by cop just to make it stop.
did get released after a little over 72 hours and all charges dropped, eventually, after 'borrowing' my computer ALL my computers(and my wii?) for damn near a year.
yeah, that was fun.

the inability to communicate in a comfortable manner and toss you outside your comfort zone can fuck you up something fierce, example most urban people will freak if you drop'em off at a campsite(good one, with all the gear they need) without a phone or internet or anything to do in just a few days.

bottom line? i think the loroi would do a collective freakout, fear and uncertainty feeding on the same in others turning to paranoia and violence in quite a few cases moving on to martial law riots and all the good stuff....probably going to get their shit together well in time to prevent total societal collapse though.


Tue Feb 02, 2016 3:53 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
That was something I had given thought to as well.


Tue Feb 02, 2016 4:47 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
hi hi

Solitary confinement is rough, but even people with mediated interactions, not using the method of interaction that is natural to humans, namely face to face interaction, don't suffer the same negative drawbacks as people in solitary confinement do. Being stranded alone in the wilderness isn't even on the same level as solitary confinement.

Quote:
"The combined indirect effects of reported visual impairment operating jointly through poorer self-rated health and a higher number of reported non-ocular conditions increased the risk of suicide significantly by 18 percent."
- Byron L. Lam, M.D. of Bascom Palmer Eye Institute, University of Miami School of Medicine et al., did an analysis of health surveys from 1986 to 1996, with 137,000 subjects. That's 18 percent of the base rate, not the total population.

It would certainly be bad news for the Loroi, and would certainly worsen the morale situation significantly, but I still don't see it causing a total collapse of Loroi civilization in and of itself.


Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
ice: as i said, they would catch the ball before total collapse, just saying it would probably be a very rough transition, remember the wall street crash of 29? fear and panic can cause tremendous amounts of damage to society.

and no, being stranded alone is nowhere near as bad as solitary confinement, just saying most urbanites would probably freak under those circumstances just from the isolation from their usual communication methods, and no, not saying most would go on a rampage, but most would be dealing with panic attacks of differing magnitudes, some would not cope well, and for the likeness with loroi when some do not cope well it increases the overall stress levels which means more problems often leading to a self feeding and self justifying collapse of ordinary life, putting even more stress on the population....it would probably get really bad, as in food riots and lynchings at least in places before it got better again.

modern society is at the same time a very redundant thing and rather fragile to the wrong kinds of stressors.


Tue Feb 02, 2016 6:34 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
Arioch wrote:
If humans suddenly lost the ability to speak, this would obviously be a shock to the system and it would greatly upset things, but we do have an alternate form of communication (writing). Some people might not be able to cope, but I think most would adjust pretty quickly. My own job is not dependent in any way on being able to speak, and most of my professional communication is in writing anyway, so my livelihood and daily activity would probably not be greatly affected. An actor or singer or other profession that depended on voice would be harder hit, of course, but such professions that I can think of are not critical to the functioning of society.


I communicate more in text than in speech; but, my ability to type well has gone way down since my teens to "middle age". I've spent a few years training a speech to text program to know my voice, and it helps tremendously. Losing that?

As for acting: Look at mimes. Look at silent movies. Look at subtitles. We've already GOT the non-spoken entertainment media coverage; losing voice in movies and television would be almost trivial.

Live stage shows, on the other hand? Well, Teller doesn't need to speak in his magic acts.

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Wed Apr 06, 2016 8:58 pm
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
Something I think everyone is not considering... If the Loroi all suddenly went Psi-Blind.. they would be at a serious strategic disadvantage~ at which point the Historians {whose technology is arguable better}...would be FORCED to make a decision!

Abandon this region of space.. or go fully on the offensive against the Umiak as their Loroi 'pets{?}' could no longer maintain their relative security. Which they could now more easily do as the Loroi cannot read their minds anymore and sneak away with technical data.

Which do you think they would choose?

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Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:53 am
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
Well, if Loroi will survive the collapse of the war, this loss accompanying, although their civilization didn't destroyed, but it actually have to rebuild from scratch. Including and invent new forms of social interaction, since all the old tied to telepathy and psionic. Since Loroi is currently tight with abstract thinking, the more likely they will borrow some form of interaction with neighbors, reworked for themselves.

The outcome, as well as the flow of the process is impossible to calculate, very little we know about the Loroi for this. Maybe they will eventually self-destruct really can on the contrary, become more progressive - who knows?


Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:24 am
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
Tamri wrote:
Well, if Loroi will survive the collapse of the war, this loss accompanying, although their civilization didn't destroyed, but it actually have to rebuild from scratch. Including and invent new forms of social interaction, since all the old tied to telepathy and psionic. Since Loroi is currently tight with abstract thinking, the more likely they will borrow some form of interaction with neighbors, reworked for themselves.

The outcome, as well as the flow of the process is impossible to calculate, very little we know about the Loroi for this. Maybe they will eventually self-destruct really can on the contrary, become more progressive - who knows?


They would be no worse of then us so we will just have to give them an helping hand and teach them. :mrgreen:


Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:18 am
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
Psychologically it would be a nightmare. Communication aside, there are the cultural taboos of spoken word. Loroi see it as a language for duels and for liars, and only communicate verbally as needed. If they could do it, they woulnd't even speak to each other while in in a combat situation against the enemy. It is as awkward to them as sign language is for much of the hearing world.

Then there is the communications: I know we have other forms of communications (writing, jestures, emoticons) BUT the spoken word is as a species our primary tool to communicate. Do you want to write everything down when you make an emergency call, or want to split our attention by checking to see what we are writing/typing as something is occuring? Most of the time we woulnd't; we'd just yell "I've fallen and I can't get up".

Gestures may work but they are not universal (what is "OK" or "I love You" in one culture may be "DIE YOU IMPITENT PIG" or "Your Mother was a Hamster and your Father smelled of Elderberries" in another.

We talk faster then we type, and this includes people like me who spend more time in front of a computer then he probably should in a given day. Things would be delayed at best in our species, so the primary took of comunicating would likewise work.


Fri May 20, 2016 3:24 am
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Post Re: Speculation: What if the loroi lost their psi abilities?
Sounds like it would be a complete and total Charlie Foxtrot, but I think "civil war/racial suicide" is unlikely.

Now, losing one of their main advantages over the bugs would be really, really problematic... But hey, maybe they'd invent quantum-entangled FTL communications to compensate? (Unlikely, but adversity breeds innovation.) Or maybe humans would, and it would suddenly become a matter of survival that they make nice with the round-ears and get them to share that tech. (Unlikely, but hey, you never know.)

I would expect it would hit Unsheathed and Farseers hardest; Fireblade, for example. I don't imagine she's ever felt disarmed, and she wouldn't take it very well. Others, though, would cope better; pilots and diplomats would be very able to cope. Command crew and analysts less so, but moreso than the general bulk of Loroi society. I would expect that some, like Beryl, would compensate by becoming absolute motormouths, while I would imagine others, like Fireblade, would soon take to communicating primarily through vulgarities and rude gestures.


Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:28 am
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