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Page 111 discussion 
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
sunphoenix wrote:
I know I personally have never said this but Arioch you have REALLY done a most excellent and THOROUGH crafting of your Outsider Universe with Well-thoughtout writting that continues to Amaze and entertain! You have REALLY and Obviously put a lot of Effort into this 'hobby' and I am VERY Grateful you continue to share it with ALL of US Fans! THIS is WHY I'll ALWAYS Be a Fan and willing to wait HOWEVER LONG it takes for you to produce another page of this High Quality web-comic... cause I know you have put your heart and keen mind into crafting something of extreme quality! Thank you!

Thanks, I appreciate that. I do it because it's what I enjoy doing.

GeoModder wrote:
And if there's a detention center on each side of the ship, it could as well mean "starboard detention center"? ;)

That may very well be what I was thinking! Though I'm not sure the ship would need two such facilities.

dragoongfa wrote:
If I had to wager a guess I would say that nazar means prisoner of war, would make sense that a warrior society would have a word which would be the equivalent of POW. As a command ship Tempest should have a facility to house valuable POWs and judging by the sloped access to each cell and the killzone to get in the detention area then it makes sense that the ones who would be held there would be dangerous and hostile aliens.

It also explains why there aren't any amenities at all in the cell as aliens could use them either as weapons (if strong enough to tear off stuff) or even as tools to commit suicide.

Ordinary brigs for 'rowdy' crew wouldn't be so extreme.

It's a high-security detention area, no doubt, but keep in mind that Loroi make for very dangerous prisoners.

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Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:31 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
From a telepathic and telekinetic perceptive that's a certainty but I would wager that the 'safest' way to transport a dangerous telepath or telekinetic (or someone who is both) is to sedate them.

It's just that the detention area seems to have safe physical detention as a priority rather than to hold a Loroi for disciplinary reasons. I also can't imagine a Loroi to either go turncoat or go criminally insane on a warship without the resident Mizol or Teidar catching them long before going through with whatever they had in their minds.

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Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:13 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
The Loroi don't normally use imprisonment as a punishment, so the only reason a Loroi would end up in this detention area would be if she was a danger to herself or others, a security risk or a flight risk (though there's a limit to how far one can flee on a starship). Intoxicants are illegal, so "rowdy" crewmembers are usually not a problem. Someone who had an emotional breakdown or otherwise lost control would be sent to the infirmary, not the brig, assuming that she could be safely subdued.

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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
DevilDalek wrote:
Arioch wrote:
There's a copilot (Spiral) in there.



Yay! Spiral my favorite!

I have an idea.. What if getting Alex to look at the star charts is all about finding out which star system the Prabu is in?
Then Tempo (who in my opinion, quite clearly has an agenda of her own..) redirects them to the meet up?

Maybe they arrive just before or after one of the other scouts do, alongside a Umiak 'diplomatic' vessel?


Arioch has stated previously that the rest of humanity isn't going to play a significant part in the story. Also if Alex shows up there the chances of him being left with the loroi are pretty slim. Most likely he'd be spirited away back to Earth and someone with more seniority and experience would take over the contact mission.


Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:05 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
hi hi

Maybe they'll show up at the rendezvous point and find nothing but wreckage?


Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:02 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
They probably won't show up at the rendezvous in the comic at all, since they probably won't be able to assemble a convoy with enough range in time. Any further contact between the TCA and the Loroi is going to depend on either freak chance, more of the Bennet class, or the Loroi sending a diplomatic convoy to a system in TCA space.


Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:58 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
First post in the Well, hope I will not auto-disassemble on launch...

My point of view is since Lorois are rather pragmatic they could decide to contact humanity, or not, based on the strategic advantage they may gain in getting an access to the TAC space. If I remember correctly, the later seems to be closer to the Hierarchy's space than Loroi's space. It would be a challenge to open a second front taking in account the huge distance, even with HyperSpace jump technology available. It feels like a logistic nightmare.


Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:53 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
fred: that 'more experience' thing has always confused me, i know that's what happens but it's such a load of bullshit, seniority? sure, but age does not make someone wise nor skilled, those come from experience and learning the right lessons from it, and at this time there is not a single human that has more experience dealing with loroi than Jardin.

not saying it would not happen, but the usually stated motivation is so much bullshit it's scary.
since the real reason is fear, trust and control, politicians are afraid and do not trust 'military' to know how to tie their shoelaces, or well anyone not a politician and finally most important they do not have any 'real' control over them with 'real' being the political backroom deal social pressure kind and therefor afraid and cannot trust them.

so, yes you are correct in what would happen, remove the dangerous stupid primate(military) from anything that could be sensitive. and put actual real humans(politicians) that are sensible enough to control the situation... but it is still such a load of bullshit.

so after saying the same thing thrice in different ways, maybe i can get it out of my system.


Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:37 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
discord wrote:
fred: that 'more experience' thing has always confused me, i know that's what happens but it's such a load of bullshit, seniority? sure, but age does not make someone wise nor skilled, those come from experience and learning the right lessons from it, and at this time there is not a single human that has more experience dealing with loroi than Jardin.

not saying it would not happen, but the usually stated motivation is so much bullshit it's scary.
since the real reason is fear, trust and control, politicians are afraid and do not trust 'military' to know how to tie their shoelaces, or well anyone not a politician and finally most important they do not have any 'real' control over them with 'real' being the political backroom deal social pressure kind and therefor afraid and cannot trust them.

so, yes you are correct in what would happen, remove the dangerous stupid primate(military) from anything that could be sensitive. and put actual real humans(politicians) that are sensible enough to control the situation... but it is still such a load of bullshit.

so after saying the same thing thrice in different ways, maybe i can get it out of my system.



Age gives someone the time to get the experience necessary. Someone younger might have the talent to succeed, but someone who is older and has the skills will have the experience (usually) that the younger person is lacking. Time in service is also an issue. Those who have out in the years to decades honing their skills and abilities, making the contacts and such have a wider skill base to use than a younger person. Those are some reasons why officers and politicians in higher rank/office are older people, not younger.

As for Alex being replaced by a more skilled negotiating team, that is to be expected. Alex was never intended to be humanity's sole ambassador. The role was kind of thrust onto him. His job (as I see it), is for him to get a Loroi team or ambassadors to the system the tanker is in. He and the other scouts were there just to act as guides so the official governmental teams could start talks.

Unfortunately for Alex, events have changed that somewhat.


Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:34 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
Absalom wrote:
They probably won't show up at the rendezvous in the comic at all, since they probably won't be able to assemble a convoy with enough range in time. Any further contact between the TCA and the Loroi is going to depend on either freak chance, more of the Bennet class, or the Loroi sending a diplomatic convoy to a system in TCA space.


But it would be nice to see an epilogue where an diplomatic mission arrives to earth, with our heroes along with them. :mrgreen:


Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:32 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
zak: not saying older people can't be competent and skilled, was not even talking about age we are talking about experience, and how the people in power quite often disregard the experience of the ones on the front lines(this is often older people in chair jobs and younger on the front lines when it comes to military matters and flipped with older on the front lines and younger in the boardrooms in business), it is in both cases the distancing of the ones in power with the actual jobs, in the case of military matters either the boss has not been in the trench for 30 years, and kinda out of the loop or a bureaucrat and have never been there, in the boardrooms you have freshly minted economics wizards that think they know everything, well lets just say they do not.

what i am talking about is the stupid idea that theoretical(or academic) knowledge trumps actual on the spot experience, and how that is so common among people in power.
and the resulting alex getting ignored and relocated when the obvious choice is keeping him around for a few weeks or maybe even months until the older wiser heads actually have an idea of what they are dealing with, why will this happen?
fear, for several reasons, what names get in the history books, showing weakness as in not knowing what they are getting themselves into getting second guessed by some flunkie, and so on.)
trust, one is the age gap thing and in this case it will probably be older heads in charge and thereby disregarding what this youngsters has to say, a MILITARY youngster at that!, institutional difference, etc.

approximately half of it is about prejudice and inability(or simply not wanting) to overcome it, the other half is a combination of fear/greed/pride/generic or institutional stupidity.


this is a opinion that is difficult to prove either way, since it has to do with the interplay between people and internal motivations are notoriously difficult to discern since people, especially those in power, tend to do a lot of ass covering.


Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:09 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
Well, from my own experience I can assure you that in such an exceptional circumstance the dilomats would make sure to have The Defender of the Garden around for consultations on interpretations of acions by the Loroi embassy and for advice how to offer proposals best to get the maximum result.
Alexander has been immersed in a part of their culture for a while.
While he might not be trusted to work for humanities best, he would be trusted to squeeze as much infrmation out of gim to give the negotiations the best possible advantages....

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Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:48 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
discord wrote:
zak: not saying older people can't be competent and skilled, was not even talking about age we are talking about experience, and how the people in power quite often disregard the experience of the ones on the front lines(this is often older people in chair jobs and younger on the front lines when it comes to military matters and flipped with older on the front lines and younger in the boardrooms in business), it is in both cases the distancing of the ones in power with the actual jobs, in the case of military matters either the boss has not been in the trench for 30 years, and kinda out of the loop or a bureaucrat and have never been there, in the boardrooms you have freshly minted economics wizards that think they know everything, well lets just say they do not.

what i am talking about is the stupid idea that theoretical(or academic) knowledge trumps actual on the spot experience, and how that is so common among people in power.
and the resulting alex getting ignored and relocated when the obvious choice is keeping him around for a few weeks or maybe even months until the older wiser heads actually have an idea of what they are dealing with, why will this happen?
fear, for several reasons, what names get in the history books, showing weakness as in not knowing what they are getting themselves into getting second guessed by some flunkie, and so on.)
trust, one is the age gap thing and in this case it will probably be older heads in charge and thereby disregarding what this youngsters has to say, a MILITARY youngster at that!, institutional difference, etc.

approximately half of it is about prejudice and inability(or simply not wanting) to overcome it, the other half is a combination of fear/greed/pride/generic or institutional stupidity.


this is a opinion that is difficult to prove either way, since it has to do with the interplay between people and internal motivations are notoriously difficult to discern since people, especially those in power, tend to do a lot of ass covering.



That's all true to a point, but I think it's clear that while Alex is the man on the spot, literally here and the best informed person about the Loroi, he isn't skilled in diplomacy and has no authority to speak for his government in ways that are legally binding. All he can do is advise his government, while people who are skilled in negotiation and treaty dealings do go to work. Since this is such a very important contact though, I don't think Alex's observations would be ignored by some stuffed shirt in the TCA diplomatic corp. The TCA is in a bad position and it's going to need all of the resources and intelligence necessary to get a good treaty for the TCA; Alex isn't going to be blown off because he is so young, military and cocky. He will be listened to, and it's very likely that he will be moved to the diplomatic side since the Loroi made him Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary and Head of Mission for Humanity, as well as the Military Attache of the mission. It's only natural that the TCA diplomats would use his knowledge and basic skills and connections among the Loroi for the good of humanity (in a good way, not a bad way).

I do not think there will be any institutional bias or stupidity here; ie assuming the Loroi are that much like humans. Any diplomat or bureaucrat that tries to mess with this is going to find him/herself cut off at the knees. From the top on down, this is going to be very open and open minded treaty/diplomatic discussion because of the importance of this negotiation and need for a favorable treaty.


Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:59 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
Am I the only one that would like to see the pilot, or the navigator, get a little fresh with Alex? There is the whole issue of mails being rare among the Lori, and the lonely soldier/sailor that's been away from home...


Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:39 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
rypperdoc wrote:
Am I the only one that would like to see the pilot, or the navigator, get a little fresh with Alex? There is the whole issue of mails being rare among the Lori, and the lonely soldier/sailor that's been away from home...


If you read the Insider information on Loroi society and parse what Beryl tells Alex, you'd see that Loroi females wouldn't see Alex in exactly that way. They aren't blue, pointy-eared humans (no matter how much some of the posters here drool ;) ).

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By parsing Beryl's comments, I mean, she is very forward and clinical about it. There isn't any indication of "Death by Snu-snu!" a la Futurama, here.


Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:55 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
I think there's some middle ground between "getting a little fresh" and "death by snu-snu."

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Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:07 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
I also think there is some ground for 'lee-way' here on the subject of physical attraction.

I think our own human reactions are just as telling~ Most of us are not put off by the Loroi blue skin and pointed ears.. there is NO reason to assume they would be disinterested in a attractive member of our species just because we have a different tone of skin and rounded ears.

That being said it would be more likely for a 'physical attraction' if our respective bio-chemistries were more similar. As we are NOT genetically compatible.. 'no-half human/loroi' offspring possible, there are some fundamental bio-chemical differences between our two species, which might manifest in that we smell odd to them or our skin tastes different to then and vice-versa. Clearly from the Outsider human body temperature runs quite a bit higher than standard Loroi so we would find them surprisingly cool to the touch while they would find us to be strangely warm in physical contact. We would find their food was strangely flavored and less palatable to us ...same as they would find ours also equally hard to get use to.

But~ all those basic bio-chemical differences withstanding.. Loroi are oxygen breathers, who give birth to live young and nurse them, and live at air pressure and temperature comparable to human norm~ if a little on the cool side, just as they would find 'comfortable' human temperatures almost tropical; with the Loroi fitting so closely into those basic parameters.. there is only so much difference that can be accounted for!

Loroi are Human-like and thus likely if we find them attractive.. they also likely find humans attractive as well. We are just too similar for them not to!!

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Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:00 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
Arioch wrote:
I think there's some middle ground between "getting a little fresh" and "death by snu-snu."

Heh heh. Fair enough! Hmm... that comment has me wondering, then, what you might be up to in that regard (checks Patreon levels again)... sigh.

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Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:16 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
All I want to know is how Fireblade or even Stillstorm would react if someone tells them that when a human female acts aggressively towards a human male that is a sign of repressed sexual interest.

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Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:04 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
dragoongfa wrote:
All I want to know is how Fireblade or even Stillstorm would react if someone tells them that when a human female acts aggressively towards a human male that is a sign of repressed sexual interest.

I don't know, probably, have to safety sent some android :D


Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:20 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
hi hi

Or it could be a sign that they just don't like that person. Just putting that out there.


Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:09 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
icekatze wrote:
hi hi

Or it could be a sign that they just don't like that person. Just putting that out there.


Torn between pointing out the tsundere trope or just adding a simple "duh".

Then again humor doesn't pass well in the forum medium so I should have expected this.

Should go back in getting the manuscript transferred to word, I am a week late as it is.

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Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:07 am
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
What does Nazar translate into in lori?

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Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:10 pm
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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
CrimsonFALKE wrote:
What does Nazar translate into in lori?

Like I said, it's not in the lexicon. I suspect what I was thinking at the time that it means "starboard", but I didn't bother to write it down and that definition doesn't necessarily make sense in the current lexicon. I made a note of it, and I'll eventually figure something out, but I'm not worried about it at the moment.

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Post Re: Page 111 discussion
cacambo43 wrote:
rypperdoc wrote:
Am I the only one that would like to see the pilot, or the navigator, get a little fresh with Alex? There is the whole issue of mails being rare among the Lori, and the lonely soldier/sailor that's been away from home...


If you read the Insider information on Loroi society and parse what Beryl tells Alex, you'd see that Loroi females wouldn't see Alex in exactly that way. They aren't blue, pointy-eared humans (no matter how much some of the posters here drool ;) ).

CJSF
P.S.
By parsing Beryl's comments, I mean, she is very forward and clinical about it. There isn't any indication of "Death by Snu-snu!" a la Futurama, here.

Ok, I am new here, and I don't know where to find the Insider Information. (Link please?)

With that said: The physical similarities between human and loroi is just too high. The likelyhood of that close physical match without a really similar DNA sequence is just too improbable.

We've seen aliens here that are very much alien.

Enough difference to not be compatible? Sure. But "Not even genetically related"? I don't buy it -- "it seems that the biology is similar".

Oh yea -- the use of "seems" for both "definitely is" and "probably is" is seems a confusing linguistic construct.

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