Fan Theories on How the Umiak can hide from the farseers

[Zorg56]

Iirc Arioch already explained it with Fireblade having some king of a sleeping pod.
All Umiak have to do is incorporate design like this into their ships structure.

[Snoofman]

Iirc Arioch already explained it with Fireblade having some king of a sleeping pod.
All Umiak have to do is incorporate design like this into their ships structure.

If I recall correctly, Arioch said that that tank is only capable of dampening telepathic noise. But it can’t hide a detectable signature. So I don’t think the Umiak have a material that conceals their mental signatures.

[SaintofM]

Idea , but could they have taken advantage of how a Loroi brain interprets information?

Illutions such a still picture seemingly moving, or having two different objects appear to be different sizes by having one close and one far away is due to the human brain taking short cuts and filling gaps.

Another similar happens when a kid does the Bloody Marry thing in the dark, and the apparition that appears is just their reflection in bad lighting.

Could the shells have found such loop holes in the space elves brains?

[Mk_C]

Idea , but could they have taken advantage of how a Loroi brain interprets information?

Illutions such a still picture seemingly moving, or having two different objects appear to be different sizes by having one close and one far away is due to the human brain taking short cuts and filling gaps.

Peter Watts has entered the chat.

[Overkill Engine]

Eh, I am still suspecting the Historians of some fuckery to keep the Loroi and Umiak fighting.

And letting either side get hold of a new client race with unknown capabilities would not be in their interests, thus motivation to destroy a scout ship and try to subvert the cooperation of any survivors.

[D-503]

That would be another very good explanation.
Proxy wars are not unheard of...

[Moon Moth]

That would be another very good explanation.
Proxy wars are not unheard of...

Yeah, when stepping back and looking at the big picture, I find it kinda suspicious how the Historians gave the Loroi just enough technological help to achieve a stalemate. For a while, anyway.

Of course, if they'd given much more or much less help, this story wouldn't be possible.

[QuakeIV]

have we considered treason

[D-503]

have we considered treason

Hm, but how? As far as i understand the Loroi themselves do not fully understand how their Farsensing works?
Or am i wrong?

[QuakeIV]

Well, somewhere along the chain the information could be getting disrupted or distorted so that it isn't reaching the units it needs to, due to some kind of insider threat. I seem to recall that although the loroi can mutually read eachothers minds, it is difficult but possible to lie about what you were doing all day (IE lying about where the bugs were going).

[GeoModder]

Second: Another hint for this is imo their relatively slow technlogical progress: Tech wise, the Loroi ain´t no overlords. It´s imprinted in their culture, and their usually long lives also contribute to a mere conservative approach to any sort of progress.
It took them ~425 years from early industrialization to their first artificial satellite.
Compare that to mankinds <250y.
And then another 300 years to their first interplanetary mission.
Compare that to mankinds twelve years from Sputnik to moon. And maybe another 12 or so years, if they´d maintained momentum until early missions to Mars, like those von Braun postulated in 1973.

Actually, its already 66-and-counting years since the first artificial satellite (Sputnik) temporarily achieved orbit.
With a first interplanetary (manned) mission nowhere in sight.

[Mk_C]

And letting either side get hold of a new client race with unknown capabilities would not be in their interests, thus motivation to destroy a scout ship and try to subvert the cooperation of any survivors.

The problem here is that if Historians just wanted Bella and Alex gone - then the Emissary already had countless opportunities to kill him. It can access any digital system through an Air Gap, Umiak and Loroi included as far as we know. Killing Alex would be as easy as doing a little trolling with medical equipment Loroi used to first examine him, or compromising ventilation in his cell block, or sabotaging Highland's engine control or airlocks - and there's enough tension between factions concerning Alex on Tempest that he would not even be in the first dozen suspects, if anyone actually suspects foul play. They definitely have interests concerning humans and Alex, but it doesn't seem to be an interest of just keeping them off the board. Hell, if that was their goal they could sprint out towards Earth, find it and initiate a contact that allows them to guide the future development of humankind policy, all in time that it took Tempest to reach Leido - we do know that they are significantly way ahead of everyone else in the Bubble in terms of both realspace travel and FTL jumps. If anything, it seems more like they themselves are confused about what to do about them, so they just try and mitigate and control the effects to some degree while they come up with a plan.

Eh, I am still suspecting the Historians of some fuckery to keep the Loroi and Umiak fighting.

Now that is extremely likely.

[D-503]

Actually, its already 66-and-counting years since the first artificial satellite (Sputnik) temporarily achieved orbit.
With a first interplanetary (manned) mission nowhere in sight.

Moon or planet is no big difference from a technical view - lander is lander, pack some more supplies in a bigger rocket (or a couple of them), and off you go.
Ok, it´s not THAT simple, but if it wasn´t for wasting money elsewhere we´d have been on Mars by the end of the 80s.

[SaintofM]

Actually, its already 66-and-counting years since the first artificial satellite (Sputnik) temporarily achieved orbit.
With a first interplanetary (manned) mission nowhere in sight.

Moon or planet is no big difference from a technical view - lander is lander, pack some more supplies in a bigger rocket (or a couple of them), and off you go.
Ok, it´s not THAT simple, but if it wasn´t for wasting money elsewhere we´d have been on Mars by the end of the 80s.

I think part of it might be accounting for atmosphere and gravity. Our moon is smaller than earth so less gravity to worry about. However something like Mars or a planet or moon or asteroid of comparable sie of Earth might have the same gravity pull as our blue planet, or something bigger might have a greater one. Now you are adjusting to that so you don't end up as a crater. And the heat of atmosphere which will slow you down, but might also cook you up in the process, so there is that to worry about. Could be wrong, been a while since I got a C+ in science.

[GeoModder]

Actually, its already 66-and-counting years since the first artificial satellite (Sputnik) temporarily achieved orbit.
With a first interplanetary (manned) mission nowhere in sight.

Moon or planet is no big difference from a technical view - lander is lander, pack some more supplies in a bigger rocket (or a couple of them), and off you go.
Ok, it´s not THAT simple, but if it wasn´t for wasting money elsewhere we´d have been on Mars by the end of the 80s.

I think part of it might be accounting for atmosphere and gravity. Our moon is smaller than earth so less gravity to worry about. However something like Mars or a planet or moon or asteroid of comparable sie of Earth might have the same gravity pull as our blue planet, or something bigger might have a greater one. Now you are adjusting to that so you don't end up as a crater. And the heat of atmosphere which will slow you down, but might also cook you up in the process, so there is that to worry about. Could be wrong, been a while since I got a C+ in science.

The Moon is a breeze to reach compared to a real down-to-earth planet.
Its easy to land on due to gravity and lack of atmosphere, and with a little effort you're back up in orbit and half-way home again.

I imagine the Deinar Loroi explored their moons way before even thinking of going down to Mezan. A full-blown planet with a dense atmosphere requiring specifically constructed landers. And from there going back to Deinar means twice climbing up a gravity well. First in going into Mezan orbit again, and then against the pull of the sun to reach Deinar again.

[Mk_C]

I imagine the Deinar Loroi explored their moons way before even thinking of going down to Mezan. A full-blown planet with a dense atmosphere requiring specifically constructed landers. And from there going back to Deinar means twice climbing up a gravity well. First in going into Mezan orbit again, and then against the pull of the sun to reach Deinar again.

Exploring the Deinar system has to be extra-fun due to the sheer concentration of micrometeoroids between most orbits.

[D-503]

A full-blown planet with a dense atmosphere requiring specifically constructed landers.

Easyly tested in your own atmosphere...

And from there going back to Deinar means twice climbing up a gravity well.

Ok, THAT requires a LOT of resources. But still, it is a matter of money, not tech.

First in going into Mezan orbit again, and then against the pull of the sun to reach Deinar again.

Actually it is more complicated to reach INNER planets.
To outer planets a "simple" Hohmann transfer orbit will do.

[GeoModder]

A full-blown planet with a dense atmosphere requiring specifically constructed landers.

Easyly tested in your own atmosphere...

Not so easily if conditions are sufficiently different. Not with a fledgling technology base as the Deinar Loroi would've had in that time of their history

First in going into Mezan orbit again, and then against the pull of the sun to reach Deinar again.

Actually it is more complicated to reach INNER planets.
To outer planets a "simple" Hohmann transfer orbit will do.

Extra mass required because of the "dust and debris" still present in the inner Deinar star system? Either for shielding or propellant?
Other circumstances, other methods to solve them.

[D-503]

Actually it is more complicated to reach INNER planets.
To outer planets a "simple" Hohmann transfer orbit will do.

Extra mass required because of the "dust and debris" still present in the inner Deinar star system? Either for shielding or propellant?
Other circumstances, other methods to solve them.

Dust and debris would be a different problem.
But i meant celestial mechanics. Inner planets are faster. And that´s adds to the problem of optimal orbit entry - there´s a different dedicated low-energy orbit entry to any given approach-speed (and/or planet-mass). The hotter you come in, the more elliptic your initial orbit gets -> more energy necessary for deceleration and/or correction.
And if you have a planetary problem-child like our Mercury, it´s own elliptical orbit adds to the drama.

[GeoModder]

Actually it is more complicated to reach INNER planets.
To outer planets a "simple" Hohmann transfer orbit will do.

Extra mass required because of the "dust and debris" still present in the inner Deinar star system? Either for shielding or propellant?
Other circumstances, other methods to solve them.

Dust and debris would be a different problem.
But i meant celestial mechanics. Inner planets are faster. And that´s adds to the problem of optimal orbit entry - there´s a different dedicated low-energy orbit entry to any given approach-speed (and/or planet-mass). The hotter you come in, the more elliptic your initial orbit gets -> more energy necessary for deceleration and/or correction.
And if you have a planetary problem-child like our Mercury, it´s own elliptical orbit adds to the drama.

For all we know, Mezan orbits its star retrograde.
Arioch is known to describe odd features in his star systems.