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If I recall correctly, Arioch said that that tank is only capable of dampening telepathic noise. But it can’t hide a detectable signature. So I don’t think the Umiak have a material that conceals their mental signatures.
Peter Watts has entered the chat.SaintofM wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:40 amIdea , but could they have taken advantage of how a Loroi brain interprets information?
Illutions such a still picture seemingly moving, or having two different objects appear to be different sizes by having one close and one far away is due to the human brain taking short cuts and filling gaps.
Yeah, when stepping back and looking at the big picture, I find it kinda suspicious how the Historians gave the Loroi just enough technological help to achieve a stalemate. For a while, anyway.
Actually, its already 66-and-counting years since the first artificial satellite (Sputnik) temporarily achieved orbit.D-503 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 1:44 amSecond: Another hint for this is imo their relatively slow technlogical progress: Tech wise, the Loroi ain´t no overlords. It´s imprinted in their culture, and their usually long lives also contribute to a mere conservative approach to any sort of progress.
It took them ~425 years from early industrialization to their first artificial satellite.
Compare that to mankinds <250y.
And then another 300 years to their first interplanetary mission.
Compare that to mankinds twelve years from Sputnik to moon. And maybe another 12 or so years, if they´d maintained momentum until early missions to Mars, like those von Braun postulated in 1973.
The problem here is that if Historians just wanted Bella and Alex gone - then the Emissary already had countless opportunities to kill him. It can access any digital system through an Air Gap, Umiak and Loroi included as far as we know. Killing Alex would be as easy as doing a little trolling with medical equipment Loroi used to first examine him, or compromising ventilation in his cell block, or sabotaging Highland's engine control or airlocks - and there's enough tension between factions concerning Alex on Tempest that he would not even be in the first dozen suspects, if anyone actually suspects foul play. They definitely have interests concerning humans and Alex, but it doesn't seem to be an interest of just keeping them off the board. Hell, if that was their goal they could sprint out towards Earth, find it and initiate a contact that allows them to guide the future development of humankind policy, all in time that it took Tempest to reach Leido - we do know that they are significantly way ahead of everyone else in the Bubble in terms of both realspace travel and FTL jumps. If anything, it seems more like they themselves are confused about what to do about them, so they just try and mitigate and control the effects to some degree while they come up with a plan.Overkill Engine wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:48 pmAnd letting either side get hold of a new client race with unknown capabilities would not be in their interests, thus motivation to destroy a scout ship and try to subvert the cooperation of any survivors.
Now that is extremely likely.Overkill Engine wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:48 pmEh, I am still suspecting the Historians of some fuckery to keep the Loroi and Umiak fighting.
Moon or planet is no big difference from a technical view - lander is lander, pack some more supplies in a bigger rocket (or a couple of them), and off you go.
I think part of it might be accounting for atmosphere and gravity. Our moon is smaller than earth so less gravity to worry about. However something like Mars or a planet or moon or asteroid of comparable sie of Earth might have the same gravity pull as our blue planet, or something bigger might have a greater one. Now you are adjusting to that so you don't end up as a crater. And the heat of atmosphere which will slow you down, but might also cook you up in the process, so there is that to worry about. Could be wrong, been a while since I got a C+ in science.D-503 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:45 pmMoon or planet is no big difference from a technical view - lander is lander, pack some more supplies in a bigger rocket (or a couple of them), and off you go.
Ok, it´s not THAT simple, but if it wasn´t for wasting money elsewhere we´d have been on Mars by the end of the 80s.
The Moon is a breeze to reach compared to a real down-to-earth planet.SaintofM wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:36 amI think part of it might be accounting for atmosphere and gravity. Our moon is smaller than earth so less gravity to worry about. However something like Mars or a planet or moon or asteroid of comparable sie of Earth might have the same gravity pull as our blue planet, or something bigger might have a greater one. Now you are adjusting to that so you don't end up as a crater. And the heat of atmosphere which will slow you down, but might also cook you up in the process, so there is that to worry about. Could be wrong, been a while since I got a C+ in science.D-503 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:45 pmMoon or planet is no big difference from a technical view - lander is lander, pack some more supplies in a bigger rocket (or a couple of them), and off you go.
Ok, it´s not THAT simple, but if it wasn´t for wasting money elsewhere we´d have been on Mars by the end of the 80s.
Exploring the Deinar system has to be extra-fun due to the sheer concentration of micrometeoroids between most orbits.GeoModder wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 1:38 pmI imagine the Deinar Loroi explored their moons way before even thinking of going down to Mezan. A full-blown planet with a dense atmosphere requiring specifically constructed landers. And from there going back to Deinar means twice climbing up a gravity well. First in going into Mezan orbit again, and then against the pull of the sun to reach Deinar again.
Easyly tested in your own atmosphere...
Ok, THAT requires a LOT of resources. But still, it is a matter of money, not tech.
Actually it is more complicated to reach INNER planets.
Not so easily if conditions are sufficiently different. Not with a fledgling technology base as the Deinar Loroi would've had in that time of their history
Extra mass required because of the "dust and debris" still present in the inner Deinar star system? Either for shielding or propellant?
Dust and debris would be a different problem.GeoModder wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:20 pmExtra mass required because of the "dust and debris" still present in the inner Deinar star system? Either for shielding or propellant?Actually it is more complicated to reach INNER planets.
To outer planets a "simple" Hohmann transfer orbit will do.
Other circumstances, other methods to solve them.
For all we know, Mezan orbits its star retrograde.D-503 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 19, 2023 4:33 amDust and debris would be a different problem.GeoModder wrote: ↑Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:20 pmExtra mass required because of the "dust and debris" still present in the inner Deinar star system? Either for shielding or propellant?Actually it is more complicated to reach INNER planets.
To outer planets a "simple" Hohmann transfer orbit will do.
Other circumstances, other methods to solve them.
But i meant celestial mechanics. Inner planets are faster. And that´s adds to the problem of optimal orbit entry - there´s a different dedicated low-energy orbit entry to any given approach-speed (and/or planet-mass). The hotter you come in, the more elliptic your initial orbit gets -> more energy necessary for deceleration and/or correction.
And if you have a planetary problem-child like our Mercury, it´s own elliptical orbit adds to the drama.
