Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Are our resident Germans ok? 
Author Message

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:00 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: Athens, Greece
Post Are our resident Germans ok?
Krulle, Shadowdragon and others?

_________________
My fan fics

Looking forward to the Mirror (Final Editing)
The pale horse (irregular updates)


Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:55 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:01 pm
Posts: 357
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
Um...

Is there a user named "Shadowdragon" who is distinct from me?


Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:08 am
Profile

Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:55 pm
Posts: 186
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Um...

Is there a user named "Shadowdragon" who is distinct from me?


I think he keep in mind Suederwind.


Last edited by Tamri on Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:30 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:00 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: Athens, Greece
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
Yeah, Suederwind sorry. Kind of sleepy when I wrote that.

_________________
My fan fics

Looking forward to the Mirror (Final Editing)
The pale horse (irregular updates)


Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:31 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:01 pm
Posts: 357
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
dragoongfa wrote:
Yeah, Suederwind sorry. Kind of sleepy when I wrote that.


Suederwind isn't online on the Discord chat, or I'd @tag him and ask.


Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:34 am
Profile

Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 2:14 am
Posts: 446
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
I'm okay, but then I live in The Netherlands, near The Hague. 852 km away...

Friends of mine live in Munich, though. Although they live a bit outside...
I hope they're okay.

Thanks...

_________________
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image


Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:41 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:55 pm
Posts: 746
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
I am fine. No need to worry, living about 235km away from Munich.
Thanks, anyway!

_________________
Forum RP: Cydonia Rising
[RP]Cydonia Rising [IC]


Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:53 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:00 pm
Posts: 327
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
Suederwind wrote:
I am fine. No need to worry, living about 235km away from Munich.
Thanks, anyway!


They are hell bent on hitting everywhere anyway. Basically they are taunting the west into launching retaliatory strikes on the Muslim world so they can recruit from people angry at said retaliatory strikes.


Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:55 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:01 pm
Posts: 357
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
Sweforce wrote:
Suederwind wrote:
I am fine. No need to worry, living about 235km away from Munich.
Thanks, anyway!


They are hell bent on hitting everywhere anyway. Basically they are taunting the west into launching retaliatory strikes on the Muslim world so they can recruit from people angry at said retaliatory strikes.


The jackass who did the shooting wasn't a jihadist. He shouted "Allahu Ackbar" because he was Muslim, and that's what a Muslim who sees himself as some kind of warrior should shout, but this guy was German-born and bred and considered himself German. He was apparently angry about all the immigrants and refugees, as well as deeply mentally ill. This really was far more like an American school shooting than political terrorism.


Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:16 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:00 pm
Posts: 327
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
Sweforce wrote:
Suederwind wrote:
I am fine. No need to worry, living about 235km away from Munich.
Thanks, anyway!


They are hell bent on hitting everywhere anyway. Basically they are taunting the west into launching retaliatory strikes on the Muslim world so they can recruit from people angry at said retaliatory strikes.


The jackass who did the shooting wasn't a jihadist. He shouted "Allahu Ackbar" because he was Muslim, and that's what a Muslim who sees himself as some kind of warrior should shout, but this guy was German-born and bred and considered himself German. He was apparently angry about all the immigrants and refugees, as well as deeply mentally ill. This really was far more like an American school shooting than political terrorism.


You could be right in this individual case but actions like this is exactly what ISIS promotes. So for the general trend of attacks it still holds up even if we do not know the story behind the individual cases.


Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:41 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:04 pm
Posts: 262
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
Not our usual fare, hope Arioch doesn't mind too much.



Sweforce wrote:
so they can recruit from people angry at said retaliatory strikes.



Erp. Thats a small aspect of it, sure, but only one. And maybe not in this particular case, but in general. Its more a damned if you do - damned if you don't problem.

The supposed prophet laid out that Islam is to be made supreme over all by one of: conversion, emigration, usurpation, or eradication. Christians and Jews get to live, but not as free men or equals. They must be put under Islam in public affairs, they can be their own people at home. War is to be used to advance Islam over others when the other means fail.

If they attack and you fall back, you give ground to their cause and they feel justified in their success - Allah supported their action. If they attack and you strike back you give fire to their cause, as you are now waging war with Islam/Allah - not them, but Islam/Allah in whose name they act.

As an aside, I despise this notion of fighting "terrorists" or "terrorism". Picture it. They day is December 8th, 1941. And the President stands before Congress demanding a declaration of war against our aggressors. Thats right, we need to stamp out the evil of Aviators, and Aviation. Absurd. Have to recognize it for what it is. Total War being waged by a segment of the Islamic faith. And who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?!

Image


No, but seriously. If it comes to total war there is only one proven way to "win". Its to make war itself too terrible to fight. And if you're not willing to do that, the only other viable option I see is to draw a line and say "stay on your side".


Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:39 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:00 pm
Posts: 327
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
Nemo wrote:

No, but seriously. If it comes to total war there is only one proven way to "win". Its to make war itself too terrible to fight. And if you're not willing to do that, the only other viable option I see is to draw a line and say "stay on your side".


Unfortunately, through massive immigration they have made our side their side as well. The future looks bleak in Europe. Sadly, they choice is between getting blood on our hands or slavery.


Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:01 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:04 pm
Posts: 262
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
I won't disagree with bleak, but I do see other options. The most likely being the elite classes utilize the internalized strife to advance powers of surveillance and control over the populace as a whole. Because you can't single out any one group! Thatd be bigoted/racist/phobic etc. But ya, any effective policing would require speech and thought crime legislation. Thats a genie that doesn't go back in the bottle easily, and people will clamor for it once the bodies stack high enough.

Thats if the threat remains internalized, of course. Containment is another possibility. Identify the potential threat, isolate elements of it, remove where possible. So Germany points to a religious minority. Says its a threat to the greater good. Systematically separates that group from the whole, and then begins shipping elements of it off. Deja vu, I feel like I've seen this play before? Had bad reviews the first time around. Can't imagine people would opt to go for an encore.



Sorry. I said I see options, I didn't say I see good options.


Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:27 am
Profile
Moderator

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:02 am
Posts: 927
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
The other option is to deal with the why. The beliefs of ISIS are not the Muslim mainstream, so there's a reason why people are diverging from the mainstream to move to extremism, understanding and dealing with the why of it can be a very powerful tool in containment.

Unfortunately we, as a people, don't seem to be interested in the long view of such things. We have to act NOW! It doesn't matter what the results of the action will be, we must have immediate action!!!!1!!1!! As a result we flail at a problem and accomplish nothing, potentially even making it worse.


Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:02 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:00 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: Athens, Greece
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
fredgiblet wrote:
The other option is to deal with the why. The beliefs of ISIS are not the Muslim mainstream, so there's a reason why people are diverging from the mainstream to move to extremism, understanding and dealing with the why of it can be a very powerful tool in containment.

Unfortunately we, as a people, don't seem to be interested in the long view of such things. We have to act NOW! It doesn't matter what the results of the action will be, we must have immediate action!!!!1!!1!! As a result we flail at a problem and accomplish nothing, potentially even making it worse.


I tend to avoid such hot potato topics on non political forums...

Well, I know that I am going to regret this...

The ISIS mentality may not be the mainstream but it finds enough acceptance in Muslim nations that no public backlash or outcry has been heard from any Muslim nation. Actions speak louder than the words of politicians and the fact is that only the West and Egypt (which is a western backed secular dictatorship) really pursues and persecutes Islamic extremism in any meaningful manner.

The radicals may be few but the majority is deathly silent to their actions.

_________________
My fan fics

Looking forward to the Mirror (Final Editing)
The pale horse (irregular updates)


Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:12 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:01 pm
Posts: 357
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
dragoongfa wrote:
I tend to avoid such hot potato topics on non political forums...

Well, I know that I am going to regret this...

The ISIS mentality may not be the mainstream but it finds enough acceptance in Muslim nations that no public backlash or outcry has been heard from any Muslim nation. Actions speak louder than the words of politicians and the fact is that only the West and Egypt (which is a western backed secular dictatorship) really pursues and persecutes Islamic extremism in any meaningful manner.

The radicals may be few but the majority is deathly silent to their actions.


This is, uh, not true? King Abdullah of Jordan led the first reprisal airstrike against ISIS personally, from the cockpit, when ISIS burned a Jordanian pilot alive. He went to the poor man's family, told them that their son had been killed and he wasn't able to stop it, but he damned well was going to rain hell on those responsible, and then he did it.

ISIS is a huge threat to everyone in the region. Nobody likes them; even fucking Al Qaeda are at war with them. Literally the only allies they have are those Boko Haram assholes.


Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:26 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:00 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: Athens, Greece
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:
I tend to avoid such hot potato topics on non political forums...

Well, I know that I am going to regret this...

The ISIS mentality may not be the mainstream but it finds enough acceptance in Muslim nations that no public backlash or outcry has been heard from any Muslim nation. Actions speak louder than the words of politicians and the fact is that only the West and Egypt (which is a western backed secular dictatorship) really pursues and persecutes Islamic extremism in any meaningful manner.

The radicals may be few but the majority is deathly silent to their actions.


This is, uh, not true? King Abdullah of Jordan led the first reprisal airstrike against ISIS personally, from the cockpit, when ISIS burned a Jordanian pilot alive. He went to the poor man's family, told them that their son had been killed and he wasn't able to stop it, but he damned well was going to rain hell on those responsible, and then he did it.

ISIS is a huge threat to everyone in the region. Nobody likes them; even fucking Al Qaeda are at war with them. Literally the only allies they have are those Boko Haram assholes.


I am talking about the public at large not politicians who look after their own skin and attack every threat against them; ISIS is a threat to everyone who has political power in the middle east, even Turkey and Saudi Arabia who are quite content in funding them and providing them with weapons. The public at large in the middle east however has not expressed any outrage against ISIS in the same way the West and the rest of the world has.

_________________
My fan fics

Looking forward to the Mirror (Final Editing)
The pale horse (irregular updates)


Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:35 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:33 pm
Posts: 673
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
The jackass who did the shooting wasn't a jihadist. He shouted "Allahu Ackbar" because he was Muslim, and that's what a Muslim who sees himself as some kind of warrior should shout, but this guy was German-born and bred and considered himself German. He was apparently angry about all the immigrants and refugees,
... Wow, that's not as rich as Hitler hating Jews, but not particularly for lack of trying.


Nemo wrote:
But ya, any effective policing would require speech and thought crime legislation. Thats a genie that doesn't go back in the bottle easily, and people will clamor for it once the bodies stack high enough.
Sadly, policing is in general just a band-aid for this situation. The "European problem" mostly comes down to social engineering (actively subvert the culture of "threatening" groups to realign them with conventional culture: not multi-culturalism -friendly), while the "Middle-eastern problem" mostly comes down to social engagement (no-wife + no-job naturally leads to nothing-to-lose: this requires major economic, legal, and cultural changes). These two won't fully stop terrorism, but they're the only ways to reliably improve the situation over the long-term.

Nemo wrote:
Thats if the threat remains internalized, of course. Containment is another possibility. Identify the potential threat, isolate elements of it, remove where possible. So Germany points to a religious minority. Says its a threat to the greater good. Systematically separates that group from the whole, and then begins shipping elements of it off. Deja vu, I feel like I've seen this play before? Had bad reviews the first time around. Can't imagine people would opt to go for an encore.
Not yet, anyways.


fredgiblet wrote:
Unfortunately we, as a people, don't seem to be interested in the long view of such things. We have to act NOW! It doesn't matter what the results of the action will be, we must have immediate action!!!!1!!1!! As a result we flail at a problem and accomplish nothing, potentially even making it worse.
In defense of this perspective, it's no so much "We must have results now!" as "We must start taking it seriously and taking action now!". The negative view in the US of Obama's handling of ISIS largely arises from a perception that he's trying to not deal with it. Basically, most of us thing that instead of "flailing" at the problem, he's trying to "shoo" it away. The only real way to deal with this perception is to take more direct action, i.e. mount an invasion of the ISIS held bits of Syria, since the Syrian government refuses to differentiate between them and other rebel groups.

I'm not saying that this wouldn't have some fall-out, mind you, just that there's actual reasons why the current US effort is perceived the way it is.


dragoongfa wrote:
The radicals may be few but the majority is deathly silent to their actions.
What a (non-)coincidence! The vast majority of both Christians and Americans haven't performed protests of the Westborough Baptist Church's actions, and yet we disapprove of them! And yes, completely relevant, despite the difference of scale.


ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
This is, uh, not true? King Abdullah of Jordan led the first reprisal airstrike against ISIS personally, from the cockpit, when ISIS burned a Jordanian pilot alive.
Huh, hadn't known that he did it personally.


dragoongfa wrote:
I am talking about the public at large not politicians who look after their own skin and attack every threat against them;
News reports are made on outrageous situations, not on sensible situations. If the reporters aren't outraged then the chances of it getting reported on automatically halves: same with editors. There's also the question of whether they'd be allowed to protest: in many cases, demonstrations in the Islamic world that you see on TV which aren't attacked by government forces have been either organized or endorsed by the government. Islamic-world demonstrations aren't indicative of the opinions of the local populace (technically they usually aren't in the West either: it's always outraged extremists, because it takes outrage to induce a protest), but instead of the local power-brokers.

dragoongfa wrote:
even Turkey and Saudi Arabia who are quite content in funding them and providing them with weapons.
Turkey targets them instead of supporting them, and to the best of my knowledge the Saudis do as well (which is a very Saudi sort of thing: they did much the same right after getting wahabi forces to help them establish Saudi Arabia), despite being affiliated with the general philosophy that ISIS has risen out of. Still, you did at least aim in vaguely the right direction with the Saudis since they're largely responsible for the decades-long expansion of wahabism across the Islamic world.

dragoongfa wrote:
The public at large in the middle east however has not expressed any outrage against ISIS in the same way the West and the rest of the world has.
Our expressions of outrage have also mostly been political.


Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:27 pm
Profile
Moderator

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:02 am
Posts: 927
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
Absalom wrote:
In defense of this perspective, it's no so much "We must have results now!" as "We must start taking it seriously and taking action now!". The negative view in the US of Obama's handling of ISIS largely arises from a perception that he's trying to not deal with it. Basically, most of us thing that instead of "flailing" at the problem, he's trying to "shoo" it away. The only real way to deal with this perception is to take more direct action, i.e. mount an invasion of the ISIS held bits of Syria, since the Syrian government refuses to differentiate between them and other rebel groups.

I'm not saying that this wouldn't have some fall-out, mind you, just that there's actual reasons why the current US effort is perceived the way it is.


I was speaking in more general terms really. A tragedy occurs and people latch onto the first suggestion they hear and insist that it MUST be done NOW!

The specific situation in Syria is...complicated, especially now that the Russians have stuck their noses in. Honestly I think not acting is the smarter move, support groups who are acting, let the locals fight the war. Barging in without a plan or a clue is what created this mess in the first place. Of course the whole thing goes further back, fucking Sykes-Picot man. WW1 is STILL fucking us over 100 years later.


Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:24 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:00 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: Athens, Greece
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
Absalom wrote:

News reports are made on outrageous situations, not on sensible situations. If the reporters aren't outraged then the chances of it getting reported on automatically halves: same with editors. There's also the question of whether they'd be allowed to protest: in many cases, demonstrations in the Islamic world that you see on TV which aren't attacked by government forces have been either organized or endorsed by the government. Islamic-world demonstrations aren't indicative of the opinions of the local populace (technically they usually aren't in the West either: it's always outraged extremists, because it takes outrage to induce a protest), but instead of the local power-brokers.
So we don't see any protest because either the reporters are not reporting it, the Islamic governments don't allow the protests to happen or the public ain't outraged for those who commit genocide level atrocities. And no protesters ARE NOT extremists, a protest is a peaceful demonstration not a riot.

Quote:
Turkey targets them instead of supporting them, and to the best of my knowledge the Saudis do as well (which is a very Saudi sort of thing: they did much the same right after getting wahabi forces to help them establish Saudi Arabia), despite being affiliated with the general philosophy that ISIS has risen out of. Still, you did at least aim in vaguely the right direction with the Saudis since they're largely responsible for the decades-long expansion of wahabism across the Islamic world.


Turkey does the bare bones minimum against ISIS when providing substantial logistical support.

1) The Oil that funds ISIS is exported via Turkey: http://observer.com/2016/02/deal-with-t ... tolen-oil/
2) ISIS fighters travel via Turkey (First openly now discreetly), hell even today ISIS wounded are treated in Turkey: https://www.rt.com/news/346882-isis-tur ... s-doctors/
3) ISIS fighters have used Turkish soil to attack the Kurds of Kobane: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ ... first-time

The main targets of Turkish air-strikes have been the Kurdish fighters of YPG and PKK. The PKK restarted its guerrilla war against Turkey in retaliation to these attacks.

As for the Saudis, they and Qatar play a dangerous double game, this relatively old analysis is good enough: http://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/isis/1.693831

Quote:
Our expressions of outrage have also mostly been political.


One quick example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chibok_sc ... kidnapping

Besides Nigerian outrage and the usual Political correct politicking Western nations were the only nations where people openly protested against Boko Haram.

Quote:
What a (non-)coincidence! The vast majority of both Christians and Americans haven't performed protests of the Westborough Baptist Church's actions, and yet we disapprove of them! And yes, completely relevant, despite the difference of scale.


I can point a few things that are wrong with your statement:

1st) The WBC is publicly derided by everyone and have no public support.
2nd) The WBC's activities can only be described as peaceful despite the fact that in essence they are trying to incite a violent response and a riot.
3rd) If the WBC tried the same stuff on any place other than the US they would be arrested because the rest of the west has laws about jackasses who protest funerals and are trying to incite riots.

You can equate the WBC to ISIS's level of evil when the WBC actually does something of note like ISIS does.

_________________
My fan fics

Looking forward to the Mirror (Final Editing)
The pale horse (irregular updates)


Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:39 am
Profile

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:09 am
Posts: 2
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
Sweforce wrote:
Unfortunately, through massive immigration they have made our side their side as well. The future looks bleak in Europe. Sadly, they choice is between getting blood on our hands or slavery.

Really? Even though muslims consist of less than 10% of the total population of Europe? (Source)
Noone can really take over anywhere without millitary power, political power, support from a majority of the population, or a combination of those. In the world, muslims are about three quarters as many as christians, and are predicted to be more than christians in 35 years (given certain conditions, which due to other factors may not be likely, or may not have the consequences some may fear: source), but the vast majority of those will not be in Europe, and they will still be a minority in the world in general.
I really hope you are just trolling. The argument that "muslims will take over Europe/the World" is statistically and logically an irrational fear, given that a majority of muslims don't have that intention, and it won't happen so long as the local population don't let it happen. The way things are going, I'm more afraid the nations of the western world will become facist nations, rather than muslim nations.

dragoongfa wrote:
The public at large in the middle east however has not expressed any outrage against ISIS in the same way the West and the rest of the world has.

I have not seen many reports or interviews of members of muslim "public at large", but from what I have seen, a majority of muslims call ISIS "Daesh", in a very derogatory and mocking manner. Only westerners primarily call them by the moniker they have given themselves; "ISIS" or "IS". Given human usual behaviour, to me, calling someone names and mocking them in public is probably the most clear and definitive statement against them the average Joe can give.


Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:58 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:00 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: Athens, Greece
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
mirandur wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:
The public at large in the middle east however has not expressed any outrage against ISIS in the same way the West and the rest of the world has.

I have not seen many reports or interviews of members of muslim "public at large", but from what I have seen, a majority of muslims call ISIS "Daesh", in a very derogatory and mocking manner. Only westerners primarily call them by the moniker they have given themselves; "ISIS" or "IS". Given human usual behaviour, to me, calling someone names and mocking them in public is probably the most clear and definitive statement against them the average Joe can give.


I would agree if the reaction to the film 'Innocence of Muslims' and the Muhammad sketches of Charlie Hebdo weren't worldwide riots and killings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_dipl ... ns_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

On the one hand we have a film and and some drawings causing mass riots and multiple killings and on the other we have a genocidal terrorist organization whose arabic acronym 'daesh' that is supposedly used as a pun ain't that innocently humorous to begin with:

https://www.freewordcentre.com/explore/ ... ce-guthrie

Quote:
So the insult picked up on by Daesh is not just that the name makes them sound little, silly, and powerless, but that it implies they are monsters, and that they are made-up.


The Daesh acronym was made up not to imply ridicule but to instill a sense of fear and that they are made up.

_________________
My fan fics

Looking forward to the Mirror (Final Editing)
The pale horse (irregular updates)


Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:25 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:04 pm
Posts: 262
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
fredgiblet wrote:
WW1 is STILL fucking us over 100 years later.


Amen, preach on brother!

Quote:
The beliefs of ISIS are not the Muslim mainstream


Lets put that into a historical perspective. The beliefs of the National Socialist Workers Party of German were also not mainstream. They came into power on roughly 1/3rd the vote (don't have that problem with "first past the post" but I digress). They merely received tacit support from the remainder of Germany, who had more in common, greater solidarity, with them than outsiders, or Jews. (Quick, go look into some surveys and look at the support the so called extremist groups get, especially in the 18-29 year bracket. )


Further, I dare to say the issue is far broader than simply ISIS, or AQ. Its an endemic problem with the doctrine of Islamic supremacy. Its merely a question of how to assert that supremacy over others. Violence to accomplish that end is condoned by the supposed prophet and the Koran. Its a matter of whether the Muslim thinks it necessary. Thats the degree of separation between them.


Wish I could start this at 2:15. Save some time.



Stone the adulterer, slay the gay etc.? That is self professed mainstream Islam raising its hand and showing support. At this point its important to note there is no separation of Church and State in Islam. Islamic law IS the law. It must be made the law everywhere, to all of mankind. Believers and nonbelievers alike.


Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:35 am
Profile

Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:09 am
Posts: 2
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
dragoongfa wrote:
I would agree if the reaction to the film 'Innocence of Muslims' and the Muhammad sketches of Charlie Hebdo weren't worldwide riots and killings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_dipl ... ns_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

On the one hand we have a film and and some drawings causing mass riots and multiple killings

The protests and riots I can understand: Demonstrations against abortion and some other causes that many people feel strongly about have also spawned massive, sometimes violent riots in the west, like the riots in the US after police killings of blacks. Also, imagine if Monty Python had consisted of muslims, based in the Middle-East, and had made "Life of Brian" while citing free speach. How would the western, christian world have reacted?
I don't condone using violence to get your point across, and I don't think the killings resulting from those two happenings were condoned by all muslims, either.

dragoongfa wrote:
and on the other we have a genocidal terrorist organization whose arabic acronym 'daesh' that is supposedly used as a pun ain't that innocently humorous to begin with:

https://www.freewordcentre.com/explore/ ... ce-guthrie

The Daesh acronym was made up not to imply ridicule but to instill a sense of fear and that they are made up.

Thank you for that link, it was a very interesting read. :-) I should take my own advice and research more before presenting my claims...
But like the writer says:
Quote:
Whether the word Daesh is insulting to its subject because it sounds ridiculous, or because it actually sounds sinister, depends slightly on who you ask. Some Syrians I’ve talked to rate the satirical value of the word very highly; for others, such as al-Haj Salih himself, however, the main weight of the word is not around humour, but around two very serious points he and others make. First of these is that both the shape of the word and the combination of letters in it are redolent of words from al-jahaliyya, the pre-Islamic dark ages or ‘age of ignorance’ that (...) has huge connotations of hideous barbarity in the popular imagination, being the realm of jinns and monsters and evil spirits and marauding freaks. (...) The second (...) point (...) is another take on why a neologism is insulting: it’s an obviously fictitious name, for an obviously fictional concept. Once again, the movement’s claim to legitimacy as a state and to rule is being rejected as nonsense, reflected in a fabricated nonsense name for them.

To me, this does not sound like al-Haj Salih (who coined the term) intended it to instill fear, but rather rejection, and a sense that these monsters, like the monsters of old, should be fought, defeated, and taken as they are: presented as larger, mightier and more numerous than they really are, and that they belong to a bygone time. But that is only my speculation.


Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:54 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:00 pm
Posts: 1065
Location: Athens, Greece
Post Re: Are our resident Germans ok?
mirandur wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:
I would agree if the reaction to the film 'Innocence of Muslims' and the Muhammad sketches of Charlie Hebdo weren't worldwide riots and killings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_dipl ... ns_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

On the one hand we have a film and and some drawings causing mass riots and multiple killings

The protests and riots I can understand: Demonstrations against abortion and some other causes that many people feel strongly about have also spawned massive, sometimes violent riots in the west, like the riots in the US after police killings of blacks. Also, imagine if Monty Python had consisted of muslims, based in the Middle-East, and had made "Life of Brian" while citing free speach. How would the western, christian world have reacted?
I don't condone using violence to get your point across, and I don't think the killings resulting from those two happenings were condoned by all muslims, either.



In the case of a Muslim 'Life of Brian' equivalent the west would have reacted in the same way all anti christian films have been received:

With anger and some protests by the ever dwindling fundamentalists and a 'meh' by everyone else. Bashing Christianity and any other religion is an acceptable norm in western and westernized societies where free speech and acceptance of divergent thinking is paramount.

PS: As for other heated social issues, the abortion protests and counter-protests are almost exclusively a US phenomenon that highlights the social differences between the various religious states and the coastal cosmopolitan ones. The only 'riot' that happened in a western country in regards to a religious taboo which I am aware of actually happened in Greece and that was when a small fraction of zealots smashed up a bookstore in the mid of 1990s because the damn writer couldn't keep his trap shut and insisted in pushing the buttons of idiots.

_________________
My fan fics

Looking forward to the Mirror (Final Editing)
The pale horse (irregular updates)


Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:01 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.