Are our resident Germans ok?

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mirandur
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Re: Are our resident Germans ok?

Post by mirandur »

Sweforce wrote: Unfortunately, through massive immigration they have made our side their side as well. The future looks bleak in Europe. Sadly, they choice is between getting blood on our hands or slavery.
Really? Even though muslims consist of less than 10% of the total population of Europe? (Source)
Noone can really take over anywhere without millitary power, political power, support from a majority of the population, or a combination of those. In the world, muslims are about three quarters as many as christians, and are predicted to be more than christians in 35 years (given certain conditions, which due to other factors may not be likely, or may not have the consequences some may fear: source), but the vast majority of those will not be in Europe, and they will still be a minority in the world in general.
I really hope you are just trolling. The argument that "muslims will take over Europe/the World" is statistically and logically an irrational fear, given that a majority of muslims don't have that intention, and it won't happen so long as the local population don't let it happen. The way things are going, I'm more afraid the nations of the western world will become facist nations, rather than muslim nations.
dragoongfa wrote: The public at large in the middle east however has not expressed any outrage against ISIS in the same way the West and the rest of the world has.
I have not seen many reports or interviews of members of muslim "public at large", but from what I have seen, a majority of muslims call ISIS "Daesh", in a very derogatory and mocking manner. Only westerners primarily call them by the moniker they have given themselves; "ISIS" or "IS". Given human usual behaviour, to me, calling someone names and mocking them in public is probably the most clear and definitive statement against them the average Joe can give.

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dragoongfa
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Re: Are our resident Germans ok?

Post by dragoongfa »

mirandur wrote:
dragoongfa wrote: The public at large in the middle east however has not expressed any outrage against ISIS in the same way the West and the rest of the world has.
I have not seen many reports or interviews of members of muslim "public at large", but from what I have seen, a majority of muslims call ISIS "Daesh", in a very derogatory and mocking manner. Only westerners primarily call them by the moniker they have given themselves; "ISIS" or "IS". Given human usual behaviour, to me, calling someone names and mocking them in public is probably the most clear and definitive statement against them the average Joe can give.
I would agree if the reaction to the film 'Innocence of Muslims' and the Muhammad sketches of Charlie Hebdo weren't worldwide riots and killings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_dipl ... ns_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

On the one hand we have a film and and some drawings causing mass riots and multiple killings and on the other we have a genocidal terrorist organization whose arabic acronym 'daesh' that is supposedly used as a pun ain't that innocently humorous to begin with:

https://www.freewordcentre.com/explore/ ... ce-guthrie
So the insult picked up on by Daesh is not just that the name makes them sound little, silly, and powerless, but that it implies they are monsters, and that they are made-up.
The Daesh acronym was made up not to imply ridicule but to instill a sense of fear and that they are made up.

Nemo
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Re: Are our resident Germans ok?

Post by Nemo »

fredgiblet wrote:WW1 is STILL fucking us over 100 years later.
Amen, preach on brother!
The beliefs of ISIS are not the Muslim mainstream
Lets put that into a historical perspective. The beliefs of the National Socialist Workers Party of German were also not mainstream. They came into power on roughly 1/3rd the vote (don't have that problem with "first past the post" but I digress). They merely received tacit support from the remainder of Germany, who had more in common, greater solidarity, with them than outsiders, or Jews. (Quick, go look into some surveys and look at the support the so called extremist groups get, especially in the 18-29 year bracket. )


Further, I dare to say the issue is far broader than simply ISIS, or AQ. Its an endemic problem with the doctrine of Islamic supremacy. Its merely a question of how to assert that supremacy over others. Violence to accomplish that end is condoned by the supposed prophet and the Koran. Its a matter of whether the Muslim thinks it necessary. Thats the degree of separation between them.


Wish I could start this at 2:15. Save some time.



Stone the adulterer, slay the gay etc.? That is self professed mainstream Islam raising its hand and showing support. At this point its important to note there is no separation of Church and State in Islam. Islamic law IS the law. It must be made the law everywhere, to all of mankind. Believers and nonbelievers alike.

mirandur
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Re: Are our resident Germans ok?

Post by mirandur »

dragoongfa wrote:I would agree if the reaction to the film 'Innocence of Muslims' and the Muhammad sketches of Charlie Hebdo weren't worldwide riots and killings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_dipl ... ns_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

On the one hand we have a film and and some drawings causing mass riots and multiple killings
The protests and riots I can understand: Demonstrations against abortion and some other causes that many people feel strongly about have also spawned massive, sometimes violent riots in the west, like the riots in the US after police killings of blacks. Also, imagine if Monty Python had consisted of muslims, based in the Middle-East, and had made "Life of Brian" while citing free speach. How would the western, christian world have reacted?
I don't condone using violence to get your point across, and I don't think the killings resulting from those two happenings were condoned by all muslims, either.
dragoongfa wrote:and on the other we have a genocidal terrorist organization whose arabic acronym 'daesh' that is supposedly used as a pun ain't that innocently humorous to begin with:

https://www.freewordcentre.com/explore/ ... ce-guthrie

The Daesh acronym was made up not to imply ridicule but to instill a sense of fear and that they are made up.
Thank you for that link, it was a very interesting read. :-) I should take my own advice and research more before presenting my claims...
But like the writer says:
Whether the word Daesh is insulting to its subject because it sounds ridiculous, or because it actually sounds sinister, depends slightly on who you ask. Some Syrians I’ve talked to rate the satirical value of the word very highly; for others, such as al-Haj Salih himself, however, the main weight of the word is not around humour, but around two very serious points he and others make. First of these is that both the shape of the word and the combination of letters in it are redolent of words from al-jahaliyya, the pre-Islamic dark ages or ‘age of ignorance’ that (...) has huge connotations of hideous barbarity in the popular imagination, being the realm of jinns and monsters and evil spirits and marauding freaks. (...) The second (...) point (...) is another take on why a neologism is insulting: it’s an obviously fictitious name, for an obviously fictional concept. Once again, the movement’s claim to legitimacy as a state and to rule is being rejected as nonsense, reflected in a fabricated nonsense name for them.
To me, this does not sound like al-Haj Salih (who coined the term) intended it to instill fear, but rather rejection, and a sense that these monsters, like the monsters of old, should be fought, defeated, and taken as they are: presented as larger, mightier and more numerous than they really are, and that they belong to a bygone time. But that is only my speculation.

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dragoongfa
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Re: Are our resident Germans ok?

Post by dragoongfa »

mirandur wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:I would agree if the reaction to the film 'Innocence of Muslims' and the Muhammad sketches of Charlie Hebdo weren't worldwide riots and killings:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_dipl ... ns_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo

On the one hand we have a film and and some drawings causing mass riots and multiple killings
The protests and riots I can understand: Demonstrations against abortion and some other causes that many people feel strongly about have also spawned massive, sometimes violent riots in the west, like the riots in the US after police killings of blacks. Also, imagine if Monty Python had consisted of muslims, based in the Middle-East, and had made "Life of Brian" while citing free speach. How would the western, christian world have reacted?
I don't condone using violence to get your point across, and I don't think the killings resulting from those two happenings were condoned by all muslims, either.
In the case of a Muslim 'Life of Brian' equivalent the west would have reacted in the same way all anti christian films have been received:

With anger and some protests by the ever dwindling fundamentalists and a 'meh' by everyone else. Bashing Christianity and any other religion is an acceptable norm in western and westernized societies where free speech and acceptance of divergent thinking is paramount.

PS: As for other heated social issues, the abortion protests and counter-protests are almost exclusively a US phenomenon that highlights the social differences between the various religious states and the coastal cosmopolitan ones. The only 'riot' that happened in a western country in regards to a religious taboo which I am aware of actually happened in Greece and that was when a small fraction of zealots smashed up a bookstore in the mid of 1990s because the damn writer couldn't keep his trap shut and insisted in pushing the buttons of idiots.

Suederwind
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Re: Are our resident Germans ok?

Post by Suederwind »

The only other religious riots in a western country that come to my mind, that don't have a muslim background were in North Ireland. There were protests against certain movies or books, but nothing on that level.
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fredgiblet
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Re: Are our resident Germans ok?

Post by fredgiblet »

Nemo wrote:At this point its important to note there is no separation of Church and State in Islam. Islamic law IS the law. It must be made the law everywhere, to all of mankind. Believers and nonbelievers alike.
This is a very important point. Islam, IIRC, became a state religion very quickly and Muhammad actually personally led armies to conquest. Nothing like that happened in Christianity until well after the leaders were dead. Christianity became a state religion much later, but Jesus and his followers themselves never became conquerors.
Suederwind wrote:The only other religious riots in a western country that come to my mind, that don't have a muslim background were in North Ireland. There were protests against certain movies or books, but nothing on that level.
I would point out that there was the entirety of The Troubles, though how much of that is purely religious and how much is nationalistic is up for discussion.

Nemo
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Re: Are our resident Germans ok?

Post by Nemo »

fredgiblet wrote:
Nemo wrote:At this point its important to note there is no separation of Church and State in Islam. Islamic law IS the law. It must be made the law everywhere, to all of mankind. Believers and nonbelievers alike.
This is a very important point. Islam, IIRC, became a state religion very quickly and Muhammad actually personally led armies to conquest. Nothing like that happened in Christianity until well after the leaders were dead. Christianity became a state religion much later, but Jesus and his followers themselves never became conquerors.
Even more than that. Christianity did not make itself the state religion. The Roman state co-opted the religion for its own purposes. It took a long time, but because they were blatantly misapplying Christianity in direct contradiction to its teachings that eventually came to a close. The separation of church and state in the West owes a good deal to the idea that the state, and its absolute power over others, is the dangerous, seductive, and corruptive half of the partnership.

You would have to undo the works and life of the supposed prophet to have such a reformation happen within Islam. Not likely, to say the least. The Koran says to kill anyone who tries.

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