WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Discussion regarding the Outsider webcomic, science, technology and science fiction.

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Werra
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Werra »

Zorg56 wrote:How and why some loroi can betray other loroi?
The how is easy. Any faction that's free to send ships out without raising suspicion can do nearly anything it wants in the steppes, including making contact with the Umiak.
The reason depends entirely on who is doing what, of course.

@sunphoenix
There are hints that the Umiak also have high technology benefactors. Their plasma weaponry for instance is said to be too advanced for their other tech. That can mean Historians, it can also mean another species.

If the Historians managed to preserve Soia tech and culture, then it would be a convenient narrative dualism if the Umiak had access to tech from whomever defeated the Soia the last time.

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Zarya
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Zarya »

I think it’s impossible to say where Arioch’s story is going. Well made as it is, for me that’s part of the fun.
One thing is certain: we’ll all be wiser and older when the author wraps up the story :lol:

entity2636
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by entity2636 »

It's also entirely possible that Arioch himself doesn't know who shot down the Bellarmine because it's irrelevant.

It could be the Historians (my top choice because clearly the Umiaks are using tech that is beyond them and the Historians are the only ones known to possess tech that is beyond everyone else), Neridi or Delrias separatists, the Morat, the Tithric or pretty much anyone else whom we know or do not know.

It could also always remain an "unnamed third party" because the plot takes us away from it, the war ends or the story ends before the war does and this matter doesn't need resolving anymore. I recall reading that he didn't give much if any thought about the ship design, just enough that it's clearly not of Umiak or Loroi build.

It's also entirely possible that whoever shot down the Bellarmine aren't the same ones who provided the Umiaks with the psi stealth tech, but rather someone entirely different who happened to be observing/spying on the two warring parties. This is less likely but still possible I'd say.

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Werra
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Werra »

It would be very disappointing to not reveal the identity of the attacker.

Another species that happens to have farseeing stealth tech appears just to shoot down a human scout ship? No way.

boldilocks
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by boldilocks »

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GeoModder
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by GeoModder »

Krulle wrote:
GeoModder wrote:
sunphoenix wrote:Clearly... some third party, who is STILL behind the scenes manipulating things, blew up the 'Bell' ~ specifically to keep humanity from making contact with either the Loroi or the Umiak.
There's no evidence whatsoever to say that Bellarmine's attacker was there or acted to 'manipulate' things.
There's no indication to the contrary anyway.
That's like saying there's no indication against the existence of god, therefore he must exist. :P
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Krulle
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Krulle »

Since I believe in her, and there's no proof he doesn't, I chose for "God exists".
He just doesn't care for us (anymore).
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charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

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SVlad
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by SVlad »

It looks like the ship, that destroyed Bellarmine has some kind of active invisibility. The Bellarmine noticed attacker on point-blank range, when they could clearly see the ship's hull. Even for proplyd dust 850 km is too close.
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Zarya
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Zarya »

Like others, I’ve been comparing ship silhouettes. To no avail...

For me it would be a complete shock if the Bellarmine was destroyed by a Loroi faction. it just doesn’t feel plausible. Besides such an action would have been kept well conceiled from SG-51 and for Beryl whom honestly told Alex what she found out about the deployed weapon. Umiak elements or a 3rd party are more likely.

As an act of aggression it may have been triggered by the Scout ship being in the wrong place at the wrong time, as the aggressor wanted to conceil its presence for the warring parties. How that squares with using powerful weapons I don’t know...

Edit >>> have changed ‘Bell’ to Bellarmine.
Last edited by Zarya on Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

entity2636
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by entity2636 »

The only thing we can say for sure is that the attacking ship was a) not a standard Loroi Navy design, b) not a standard Umiak Navy design and c) not a Barsam courier and d) about heavy destroyer or light cruiser sized. We haven't seen any other ships built by other factions, nations, species or even other companies/shipyards for that matter.

@Zarya - them using a heavy plasma weapon could be because they wanted to eliminate the 'Bell' ASAP thus they fired from a large caliber or they didn't have anything smaller other than a PDL which the 'Bell' could arguably survive for a couple of shots. Having to shoot three times I imagine was due to the Bellarmine having fusion power instead of antimatter - it just wound't flash and disappear from existence.

boldilocks
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by boldilocks »

b) not a standard Umiak Navy design
Of course, the loroi have an in here in that the Umiak don't really have a 'standard' navy design anyway. But then, Alex doesn't know what the ship looked like anyway.

entity2636
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by entity2636 »

While the Umiak don't have ship classes as we and the Loroi understand them, they still do have, let's say, general design guidelines and specifications. By that I mean that, say, Umiak missile cruisers built by different shipyards on different planets vary in size, loadout and individual design, but they all are built to meet certain specifications and design guidelines and thus look and behave similar and unmistakably Umiak in origin.

boldilocks
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by boldilocks »

entity2636 wrote:While the Umiak don't have ship classes as we and the Loroi understand them, they still do have, let's say, general design guidelines and specifications. By that I mean that, say, Umiak missile cruisers built by different shipyards on different planets vary in size, loadout and individual design, but they all are built to meet certain specifications and design guidelines and thus look and behave similar and unmistakably Umiak in origin.

They certainly seem to have a lack of angularity that was present in the attacking ship.

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sunphoenix
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by sunphoenix »

Has there been an actual picture of the attacking ship.. the one that destroyed the "Bell" been posted by Arioch?
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Krulle
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Krulle »

IIRC, only the sensor screen, page 6, upper right panel.
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charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

Sweforce
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Sweforce »

Krulle wrote:IIRC, only the sensor screen, page 6, upper right panel.
It does not look like an Umiak design but it could belong to one of their "allies". Still I believe it was hiding out from BOTH sides and destroyed the Bellarmine as a simple "no witnesses" policy. My guess it is an observer from an unknown third part of the conflict pitching two empires against each other in order to weaken them. Basically they do the kind of things the Romulans would do in Star Trek except their existence are unknown and they prefer to keep it that way.

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GeoModder
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by GeoModder »

Again, no evidence whatsoever to support that claim.
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Werra
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Werra »

How exactly does a ship stay hidden in a warzone? Doesn't the impracticability of stealth technology in Outsider not imply that this unknown ship has its own farsensing capabilities?

Krulle
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Krulle »

Or the crew must have intrinsic telepathy blocking...
Like Mannadi, or Humans.
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

boldilocks
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by boldilocks »

Werra wrote:How exactly does a ship stay hidden in a warzone? Doesn't the impracticability of stealth technology in Outsider not imply that this unknown ship has its own farsensing capabilities?
It was hidden in the cloud, which would make it obscured conventional radar. As I understand it the loroi in battle when bellarmine entered the system were wiped out.

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