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WIP Discussion (Part 1!) 
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
TTK Ultraheavy?

And if so, will we see the wave-loom device in action?

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Sun May 01, 2011 3:14 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Looks more like a command cruiser, though the silhouette is still off.


Sun May 01, 2011 4:22 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Remember that the Umiak silhouettes shown in Insider are rough estimations of general class types--not hard and fast classifications. Umiak ships vary significantly depending on where/when they were built; there is apparently very little effort towards standardization, and even then only across broad purpose classes.


Sun May 01, 2011 4:34 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Based on the concept art I'd have said its a TT Superheavy, whilst the silhouettes are only representative they are also the ones Arioch has produced and thus quite likely to be the ones that get used in the comic.

However this is possibly more evidence of something unusually going on in Naam, since the Umiak rarely deploy such large vessels in assault divisions.


Sun May 01, 2011 4:39 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
dfacto wrote:
Looks more like a command cruiser, though the silhouette is still off.

Better guess than mine.
It would also ruin the suspense to show this beasts so early into the plot.


captainsmirk wrote:
Based on the concept art I'd have said its a TT Superheavy, whilst the silhouettes are only representative they are also the ones Arioch has produced and thus quite likely to be the ones that get used in the comic.

30-Cell Torpedo Arrays are also an indication.

captainsmirk wrote:
However this is possibly more evidence of something unusually going on in Naam, since the Umiak rarely deploy such large vessels in assault divisions.

That would make a nice twist to the plot.

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Sun May 01, 2011 4:42 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
captainsmirk wrote:
Based on the concept art I'd have said its a TT Superheavy, whilst the silhouettes are only representative they are also the ones Arioch has produced and thus quite likely to be the ones that get used in the comic.


You're right. The Insider says the Superheavy has:

04 MR Heavy Plasma Focus
12 SR Heavy Plasma Focus
03 30-Cell Torpedo Arrays

And if you look at the concept the weapons seem to match (though you can't tell which barrel is which, but there are 12 barrels (6 on each side), and 2 30 cell torpedo launchers.


Sun May 01, 2011 4:55 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Pics name also says "superheavy"...


:oops: :lol:

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Sun May 01, 2011 4:58 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Cheater :|


Sun May 01, 2011 5:03 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
dfacto wrote:
Cheater :|

...by accident. Sry. :?

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Sun May 01, 2011 5:07 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
That Umiak super heavy has to be extremely heavily armored. Because going by the rough ship sketch in the insider, it's not just 2.2 km long. It's 2 kilometers wide. That's a mind bogglingly huge target. Even at extreme ranges dodging is going to be a bit of an issue.


Alex getting sight of this thing should really drive home how far below the weight class humanity is compared to the two combatants. Some of the heavier Loroi ships are twice the size of the America class cruisers humanity has, but those are heavier classes and most of the Loroi fleet is still within the same general size range. A warship two kilometers in width and over two kilometers lengthwise is a completely out of context for what humanity is used to.

To put this into context, lets show everyone what half a dozen 320 meter long America class heavy cruisers look like next to an Umiak super heavy. (Note the individual gu pieces that are thicker all around than the body of the ship.)

Image

This thing would eat the entire human space fleet like a light snack.


Sun May 01, 2011 7:27 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Time to break out the Wave Loom methinks... :shock:

Or perhaps better yet apply the old adage "Discretion is the better part of Valour" :D


Sun May 01, 2011 7:57 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
I can see two things happening from here on out.

Either the Loroi retreat, or they stand and fight.

Retreating when the enemy has an initial velocity advantage may be problematic. To stand and fight might be even more-so. Part of me doubts even the Wave Loom could turn the tides in the Loroi's favor this fight if that is a TTK Ultraheavy.


Sun May 01, 2011 8:35 am
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
I'll go for the TT Superheavy as well. What a monster! :o

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Sun May 01, 2011 1:08 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
The vessel depicted is a ~600m TT-style superheavy, not the monstrous ~2km ultraheavy.

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Sun May 01, 2011 1:43 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Arioch wrote:
The vessel depicted is a ~600m TT-style superheavy, not the monstrous ~2km ultraheavy.

Ah. I WOULD be odd for a regular Umiak fleet to be burdened down with a ship like that.



OTOH, that STILL does leave you with Ultra Heavies that could probably wipe out the entire human fleet just by ramming into them.


Sun May 01, 2011 1:59 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Out of curiosity, The Insider Loroi Ships page describes the Wave Loom device as "problematic." Why is that? I recall this being covered before, but I forget the answer.


Sun May 01, 2011 3:14 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Arioch wrote:
The vessel depicted is a ~600m TT-style superheavy, not the monstrous ~2km ultraheavy.

IF the Loroi use their wave-loom on this one, i´m curious about the tactics. Considering the drawbacks of this technology, i´m pretty sure they can´t sit and wait for it getting charged.
So maybe they accelerate on an escape-vector, then idle the thrusters to charge the loom, turn onto target and fire.
Hm, maybe that still consumes too much time...

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Sun May 01, 2011 3:22 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Wintermute wrote:
Out of curiosity, The Insider Loroi Ships page describes the Wave Loom device as "problematic." Why is that? I recall this being covered before, but I forget the answer.

Long charging time, heating issues, and leaves the firing ship dead in the water for short period of time after discharging IIRC.

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Sun May 01, 2011 3:24 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Trantor wrote:
Wintermute wrote:
Out of curiosity, The Insider Loroi Ships page describes the Wave Loom device as "problematic." Why is that? I recall this being covered before, but I forget the answer.

Long charging time, heating issues, and leaves the firing ship dead in the water for short period of time after discharging IIRC.

That, and the problem that presumably your wave motion gun can only hit one enemy ship at a time. And the Umiak use swarm tactics.


Sun May 01, 2011 6:09 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
hi hi

If I were to guess, I would think the wave motion gun creates plasma focus in the form of a huge and prolonged sine wave, with a back and fourth sweeping motion that allows it to hit more than one thing.


Sun May 01, 2011 6:55 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Trantor wrote:
Wintermute wrote:
Out of curiosity, The Insider Loroi Ships page describes the Wave Loom device as "problematic." Why is that? I recall this being covered before, but I forget the answer.

Long charging time, heating issues, and leaves the firing ship dead in the water for short period of time after discharging IIRC.


Makes sense. I recalled the heating issues and long charge time. I didn't recall the Wave Loom leaving a ship temporarily dead in the water after firing, though that seems like an acceptable drawback for such a powerful weapon. I suppose when I saw the word "problematic," in my mind I was wondering if that meant Wave Loom weapons were prone to malfunction or some other sort of unpredictable drawback.


Sun May 01, 2011 7:21 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
OT Crossover:

I bet the Loroi would be happy to have Orion-7´s "Overkill-Device".*

Just set a point in space and time and ruuuuun.

Disadvantage: Subgluon chainreaction is unpredicable, sometimes only stops when target is consumed and density of matter goes subcritical. Don´t use it on planets...

:mrgreen:


*Youtube-link

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Sun May 01, 2011 7:23 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Since I'm in the mood to ask clarifying questions about the material posted in Insider, here's another one that probably only Arioch can answer.

On the Human and Umiak ships page, there is shared terminology used to describe each side's ship's armor rating (eg: both the America Class CA and the Type-T BB share the armor rating "Heavy"). Does this mean that the armor on the America CA is roughly equivalent to the Type-T BB? Or is it that the America CA only has heavy armor by human tech-level standards, and is actually woefully outclassed by the armor on the Type-T BB? Obviously any way you slice it the Type-T still has a massive defensive advantage over the America due to screens, but this had me curious.

Spoiler: show
And even if the answer is the America has similar armor rating to some of the Umiak ships, please nobody use that as an excuse to tirade into arguing that OMG THE CURRENT HUMEN SHIPS MIGHT BE ABLE TO COMPETE MILITARILY IN X Y OR Z IMPLAUSIBLE SCENARIO. Please.


Additionally, how would the designations "Heavy," "Medium," and "Light" translate roughly into numerical ratings, like used on the Loroi ships page?


Sun May 01, 2011 7:40 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
icekatze wrote:
If I were to guess, I would think the wave motion gun creates plasma focus in the form of a huge and prolonged sine wave, with a back and fourth sweeping motion that allows it to hit more than one thing.


I always pictured it as a multiply focused interwoven web of plasma, something like a caustics under rippling water with hot-spots on multiple targets. Practical issues of producing the art mean it's probably something simpler, though.


Sun May 01, 2011 8:41 pm
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Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Wintermute wrote:
Out of curiosity, The Insider Loroi Ships page describes the Wave Loom device as "problematic." Why is that? I recall this being covered before, but I forget the answer.

The rate of fire is low, the entire ship must be pointed at the target, and can't do much else during the charging period when power is being diverted to the wave-loom. It's an expensive weapon, and there's a tradeoff with defensive capability -- the accelerators in the prongs crowd out extra defensive screen generators. And the high power requirements put some ships (especially older ones like Tempest) at risk of power system overloads or heat system saturation when firing the weapon repeatedly.

Trantor wrote:
IF the Loroi use their wave-loom on this one, i´m curious about the tactics. Considering the drawbacks of this technology, i´m pretty sure they can´t sit and wait for it getting charged.

The wave-loom is a high-powered weapon with moderate range and a certain degree of area-effect. The precise details of how the weapon works are still being worked out (which should tell you that its use in the comic is not imminent) but something exotic along the general lines of the Orion-7 weapon you mentioned or the MD Device from Ender's Game is likely. It's something that is best used against hard targets like citadels, surface installations or pesky ultraheavies, or in an unusual situation in which the enemy is forced into very tight formation (but yet are still a safe distance from your own forces). And preferably used in a massed fleet battle where there are ample friendly forces to protect the firing ship while it is vulnerable.

I have on my list to add an Insider page on the various weapons systems, and that's most likely when those details will be worked out.

Wintermute wrote:
On the Human and Umiak ships page, there is shared terminology used to describe each side's ship's armor rating (eg: both the America Class CA and the Type-T BB share the armor rating "Heavy"). -- Additionally, how would the designations "Heavy," "Medium," and "Light" translate roughly into numerical ratings, like used on the Loroi ships page?

Thanks for pointing that out, as it needs to be fixed. Those two pages were created at different times, so the terms are local to each page; the Umiak armor is certainly more effective per cm thickness than the Terran armor. Though I will say that the Terran cruisers are very thickly armored, since that's their only form of protection (whereas for the main combatants, even the rugged Umiak, armor is a secondary form of protection). But you're right that it should be converted to an equivalent numeric value.

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