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WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15
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Author:  Krulle [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Just pasting the image over, so that we all know what you're talking about:
Arioch wrote:
Image


Indeed, looks very nifty.
So we can expect more space-view in the near future?

Author:  boldilocks [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

So, page 120 comes out, then this "blaze it".

Author:  GeoModder [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Nice design of the frigate.

Now I wonder if we're going to see a spacewalk or if the Highland will mate with the frigate at arrival.
Assuming Alex' VIP shuttle won't fit in the hangar bay of course.

Author:  dragoongfa [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Most probably an umbilical connection, at that tech level it should be a day to day affair.

Author:  icekatze [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

hi hi

The insider information on the frigate says that it carries two standard shuttles. Maybe if they launched the two shuttles and sent them to someone else, they could squeeze the Highland in?

Author:  Absalom [ Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

I think the Highland will only need to fit in the shuttle bay if it isn't going back to Tempest, which strikes me as unlikely. More likely it'll use a docking port of the appropriate size.

Edit: square-bracket key is giving me trouble.

Author:  Sweforce [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Absalom wrote:
I think the Highland will only need to fit in the shuttle bay if it isn't going back to Tempest, which strikes me as unlikely. More likely it'll use a docking port of the appropriate size.

Edit: square-bracket key is giving me trouble.


Probably and that means we will probably loose the teams newest additions, Talon and Spiral unless the Highlander get's an replacement crew to take it back to Tempest. one reason to do so could be for security. Perhaps Stillstorm wan't everyone that has been in contact with Alex of her ship. Another reason to keep Talon and Spiral around would be if Stillstorms fleet just cannot wait for their return, probably due to the recent invasion, and as such they will have to ditch the Highlander shuttle for later retrieval.

Author:  harlequin2262 [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Aren't Talon and Spiral getting pulled off the line to keep their experience alive? Hopping off and changing out for a fresher, greener crew. Figures they'd stay with them. The capital is likely the direction they're heading anyway, if they're going to be installed as flight instructors or something.

Author:  dragoongfa [ Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

I think that they are intended by Stillstorm to train and acclimate the raw replacements of the 51st, not as rear line instructors. I don't think that they will stay with Alex and Co.

Author:  GeoModder [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

The Leido flash message issued a code four for all Union vessels.

I reckon the 51st doesn't have time then to wait for the return of the Highland shuttle, but need to move to Sala-128 ASAP.

Author:  Jayngfet [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

The thing is an umbilical cable will invariably be a weakness that can be exploited on any warship. Unless you add a retractable layer of armor or something. But at that point you're just adding more and more moving parts that go from the soft inner guts of the ship to the hardened shell meant to keep bad stuff out.

There may be an umbilical connection, but keep in mind that the amount of space needed to have one is essentially the same amount you'd need for another weapon mount.

Author:  dragoongfa [ Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Jayngfet wrote:
The thing is an umbilical cable will invariably be a weakness that can be exploited on any warship. Unless you add a retractable layer of armor or something. But at that point you're just adding more and more moving parts that go from the soft inner guts of the ship to the hardened shell meant to keep bad stuff out.

There may be an umbilical connection, but keep in mind that the amount of space needed to have one is essentially the same amount you'd need for another weapon mount.


I don't believe that it would be that demanding in terms of space or even that much of a weakness in terms of armor and complexity. Not in those tech levels at least.

I think that a ship with several hundred crew members is bound to have the ability to deploy several umbilical connections for logistics alone, to quickly transport new personnel and equipment small enough to be transportable via hand/personal trolleys (see food crates and other small consumables that need to be transported in bulk); this would mean that the limited space in the shuttle bay would be used for the moving of far heavier and bulkier equipment.

Also an umbilical is the best way to quickly transfer crew from one ship to an other in a pinch.

GeoModder wrote:
The Leido flash message issued a code four for all Union vessels.

I reckon the 51st doesn't have time then to wait for the return of the Highland shuttle, but need to move to Sala-128 ASAP.


Stillstorm won't leave her two best pilots behind and I don't think that the distance involved is too great for the shuttle to reach Tempest before the strike group jumps out, transiting a system to reach a jump point should take a significant amount of time.

Author:  Krulle [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Also, the umbilical can be stowed away, and you won't use it when in a combat situation.
Docking while being under fire is simply stupid, as you limit your possibility of evasion maneuvers.

Author:  GeoModder [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

dragoongfa wrote:
GeoModder wrote:
The Leido flash message issued a code four for all Union vessels.

I reckon the 51st doesn't have time then to wait for the return of the Highland shuttle, but need to move to Sala-128 ASAP.


Stillstorm won't leave her two best pilots behind and I don't think that the distance involved is too great for the shuttle to reach Tempest before the strike group jumps out, transiting a system to reach a jump point should take a significant amount of time.


Depends on how soon and at what acceleration 51st starts moving again. At top acceleration even the Tempest is half faster then the Highland.

Author:  icekatze [ Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

hi hi

I suspect that the Tempest is either not at high acceleration, in order to rendezvous with the supply convoy already in system. That, or they are already starting to accelerate back the way they came and expecting the supply convoy to catch up with them, since they were going to try to get back into the fight as soon as possible, even before the emergency message came through.

The Clearbrook is on outbound vector, but is clearly not very far away yet, possibly because it was part of the supply convoy or resupplied with them recently. I know a Solon is not exactly the same as a second, and I forget the conversion rate, but treating a Solon as a second, the Highwind can travel about .24 AU at full acceleration for that time. (If my math is right.) So it might not be too big of a wait for the Tempest to let the Highwind catch up.

Author:  GeoModder [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

icekatze wrote:
hi hi

I suspect that the Tempest is either not at high acceleration, in order to rendezvous with the supply convoy already in system. That, or they are already starting to accelerate back the way they came and expecting the supply convoy to catch up with them, since they were going to try to get back into the fight as soon as possible, even before the emergency message came through.

The Clearbrook is on outbound vector, but is clearly not very far away yet, possibly because it was part of the supply convoy or resupplied with them recently. I know a Solon is not exactly the same as a second, and I forget the conversion rate, but treating a Solon as a second, the Highwind can travel about .24 AU at full acceleration for that time. (If my math is right.) So it might not be too big of a wait for the Tempest to let the Highwind catch up.


Well, if the next page at some panel (and without a 'x time later' marker) already shows the Clearbrook on screen, the distance is definitely negligible. The Highland has barely departed.

Author:  icekatze [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

hi hi

I double checked the conversion from Solon to Second. 1 Solon is 1.092 seconds. I'm inclined to believe that when Beryl says "We will rendezvous in approximately 19,200 solon," even if there is no text involved, that the journey took about 5.82 hours. We've already had a few mini montages where people were going over lessons on human measurements and loroi writing.

Certainly they are not on opposite sides of the solar system.

Author:  GeoModder [ Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

icekatze wrote:
hi hi

I double checked the conversion from Solon to Second. 1 Solon is 1.092 seconds. I'm inclined to believe that when Beryl says "We will rendezvous in approximately 19,200 solon," even if there is no text involved, that the journey took about 5.82 hours. We've already had a few mini montages where people were going over lessons on human measurements and loroi writing.

Certainly they are not on opposite sides of the solar system.


Thanks for the reminder. I totally forgot the comic already mentioned transit time to the escort vessel.
So yeah, a 12 hour flight to Clearbrook and back to Tempest should definitely be possible.
I can't imagine 51st would be reprovisioned in that short timespan.

Author:  Absalom [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Sweforce wrote:
Absalom wrote:
[snip]


Probably and that means we will probably loose the teams newest additions, Talon and Spiral unless the Highlander get's an replacement crew to take it back to Tempest. one reason to do so could be for security. Perhaps Stillstorm wan't everyone that has been in contact with Alex of her ship. Another reason to keep Talon and Spiral around would be if Stillstorms fleet just cannot wait for their return, probably due to the recent invasion, and as such they will have to ditch the Highlander shuttle for later retrieval.

harlequin2262 wrote:
Aren't Talon and Spiral getting pulled off the line to keep their experience alive? Hopping off and changing out for a fresher, greener crew. Figures they'd stay with them. The capital is likely the direction they're heading anyway, if they're going to be installed as flight instructors or something.
I don't think they'd be chosen as flight instructors at the capital without much more experience, that's the sort of gig you'd get in your 30s or older. If they're being pulled from Tempest to be flight instructors, then probably they'd get posted at a citadel station to be assistant instructors, helping the primaries to deal with the numbers of fighter cadets flowing out to the ships based out of that location.


Jayngfet wrote:
The thing is an umbilical cable will invariably be a weakness that can be exploited on any warship. Unless you add a retractable layer of armor or something. But at that point you're just adding more and more moving parts that go from the soft inner guts of the ship to the hardened shell meant to keep bad stuff out.

There may be an umbilical connection, but keep in mind that the amount of space needed to have one is essentially the same amount you'd need for another weapon mount.
Umbilical connections will presumably be rarely used away from port, so it's quite possible that they consist entirely of external airlocks for moving crew at port (this should be considered a virtual necessity), and a mixture of conveyor systems, hose connections, and power connections that are located entirely inside of the landing bay. They won't pose any more weakness than the bay (and it's fuel and armaments) already pose, and you can tether the actual connecting infrastructure out of the way on the outside of the ships so that it doesn't go flapping around everywhere.

dragoongfa wrote:
I don't believe that it would be that demanding in terms of space or even that much of a weakness in terms of armor and complexity. Not in those tech levels at least.
I'd even be more worried about battle-damage flash-welding the armor hatches to the hull.

dragoongfa wrote:
I think that a ship with several hundred crew members is bound to have the ability to deploy several umbilical connections for logistics alone, to quickly transport new personnel and equipment small enough to be transportable via hand/personal trolleys (see food crates and other small consumables that need to be transported in bulk); this would mean that the limited space in the shuttle bay would be used for the moving of far heavier and bulkier equipment.

Also an umbilical is the best way to quickly transfer crew from one ship to an other in a pinch.
I'd guess a large umbilical for bulk crew/dolly transport with internal dividers to create "lanes", some limited power & liquified air supply integrated into it for ships under heavy maintenance or whatever, based on a standard hallway size (so maybe matched to the interior halls of the Tempest). Then some additional umbilicals for "keg autoloaders" (x1) (anything big enough to fit in a standard "crew portable" container can be autoloaded, including torpedoes), Tiamat (x2, one for each, + however many for auxiliary materials like liquefied emergency coolant) (might also be "kegified", but I bet each would still have their own umbilical), "station power supply" (x1), and a few smaller crew umbilicals (multiple locations, ~2 crew wide, narrowing to 1 crew wide at the ends for optimized airlock size) (possibly also with auxiliary power & air connections integrated).

dragoongfa wrote:
GeoModder wrote:
The Leido flash message issued a code four for all Union vessels.

I reckon the 51st doesn't have time then to wait for the return of the Highland shuttle, but need to move to Sala-128 ASAP.


Stillstorm won't leave her two best pilots behind and I don't think that the distance involved is too great for the shuttle to reach Tempest before the strike group jumps out, transiting a system to reach a jump point should take a significant amount of time.
Even if Talon and Spiral are moving off Tempest, then the 51st may be receiving replacement pilots via the Highland. In that case, the strike group will wait at least long enough to pick up the Highland, or perhaps have one of the faster ships take a detour to pick it up.

GeoModder wrote:
So yeah, a 12 hour flight to Clearbrook and back to Tempest should definitely be possible.
I can't imagine 51st would be reprovisioned in that short timespan.
I can. Particularly if materials are provisioned via autoloader (reducing the crew attention required for e.g. high explosives), but even just with e.g. forklifts, you can move a lot of materials very fast, especially the stuff that you can sort & store later (e.g. foodstuffs, not missiles or small arms). I imagine that the slowest material is the Tiamat, and that probably has it's own time-and-safety-efficient dedicated refueling system.

Author:  icekatze [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

hi hi

I do have to wonder about Tiamat storage. If I were transferring a substance that explodes if not kept at super cool temperatures, I would either store it in fuel cells/honeycombs that are removed entirely and replaced with fresh cells, or I would use an umbilical that never goes anywhere near pressurized habitat. When even a thin residue can explode with a force of about 20 some kilotons per gram, it is something to handle with care, to say the least.

The 51st is supposedly being resupplied by a convoy. I would think that the time it takes for them to get underway would depend on how big the convoy is, and how long it takes for them to rendezvous. The Highland may only take 6 hours to reach the Clearbrook, but the resupply ships could just as well be on the opposite side of the system, just finishing up resupplying someone else. Or they might be resupplying the 51st right now, I don't think it's been said yet.

Author:  Absalom [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

icekatze wrote:
hi hi

I do have to wonder about Tiamat storage. If I were transferring a substance that explodes if not kept at super cool temperatures, I would either store it in fuel cells/honeycombs that are removed entirely and replaced with fresh cells, or I would use an umbilical that never goes anywhere near pressurized habitat. When even a thin residue can explode with a force of about 20 some kilotons per gram, it is something to handle with care, to say the least.
That is the big resupply-technology question, isn't it? If they use "hoses" instead of "autoloaders", I bet the "hose fittings" incorporate self-cleaning systems to clean up any spilled Tiamat before the fittings completely separate, precisely to prevent the sort of "only half the corpse is gone, so it was a minor accident" incidents that you're probably thinking of.

icekatze wrote:
The 51st is supposedly being resupplied by a convoy. I would think that the time it takes for them to get underway would depend on how big the convoy is, and how long it takes for them to rendezvous. The Highland may only take 6 hours to reach the Clearbrook, but the resupply ships could just as well be on the opposite side of the system, just finishing up resupplying someone else. Or they might be resupplying the 51st right now, I don't think it's been said yet.
True, but I suspect that a convoy probably has enough ships to resupply all the ships of an average strike group in parallel, so whenever the resupply begins I bet it ends fast, a fast job can probably be finished in less than 3 hours (or less than 1 hour) after rendezvous.

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