Stillstorm laughed...

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Darth Cloaked Guy
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Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Darth Cloaked Guy »

...it chilled me to the bone.

Karst45
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Karst45 »

though she kind of look cute while laughing, kind of prove she actually have a soul :)

too bad hearing her laugh actually a sign of your impending doom!

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Ktrain
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Ktrain »

The laugh actually shows a lack of tact and gives me a more negative impression on how Loroi compose themselves. I would have preferred a simple "No" and a ceasing of transmission. Her behavior makes the Umiak commander appear more restrained and measured in comparison.
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NOMAD
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by NOMAD »

I got the impression Still-Storm doesn't believe KIk-27 claims and offer.
Ktrain wrote:The laugh actually shows a lack of tact and gives me a more negative impression on how Loroi compose themselves. I would have preferred a simple "No" and a ceasing of transmission. Her behavior makes the Umiak commander appear more restrained and measured in comparison.


Still-Storm reaction is atypical of a normal loroi reaction, although from Beryl own laugh in page 31, it does kinda gives the impression that, like humans, Loroi can be unpredictable at times and can be spontaneous
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Razor One
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Razor One »

I thought it was excellent.

I liken her reaction to Kikitik as our collective reaction was to the Iraqi Information Minister.

Some context if you don't remember ;)

"Lying is forbidden in Iraq. President Saddam Hussein will tolerate nothing but truthfulness as he is a man of great honor and integrity. Everyone is encouraged to speak freely of the truths evidenced in their eyes and hearts."

"Now even the American command is under siege. We are hitting it from the north, east, south and west. We chase them here and they chase us there. But at the end we are the people who are laying siege to them. And it is not them who are besieging us."

"Faltering forces of infidels cannot just enter a country of 26 million people and lay besiege to them! They are the ones who will find themselves under siege. Therefore, in reality whatever this miserable Rumsfeld has been saying, he was talking about his own forces. Now even the American command is under siege."

"We are winning!"
Source

The political controversy of the Iraq war aside, the Information Minister was absolutely hilarious because the things he said were so dissonant from the reality of the situation as to be absurd.

Likewise, Stillstorm views Kikitik's appraisal of her situation and his "Offer" as so completely removed from her version of reality as to be laughable. While it may violate standard operating procedure, if the enemy proposes something so completely removed from fact, so utterly ridiculous that you happen to burst out laughing, I doubt that can be held against anyone.
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by TrashMan »

In that case Stillstorms vision of relaity must be exceptionally limited...pretty much to "how I want thingy to be".

Everything Kikitik said makes perfect sense and there is nothing to contradict it...so it does bear no resemblance to the Iraq example.

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Razor One
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Razor One »

Disinformation. She has no reason to trust anything Kikitik has to say. The best lies are the ones that mix in a little truth as well. Makes them much easier to swallow.

It's also common knowledge that the Umiak will lie, cheat, steal, refuse to flush the toilet, take the last beer in the fridge and generally do what they must in order to win the war. Pretty much par for the course in human wars. You trust your own chain of command over and above anything the enemy has to say, even if their actions appear to be illogical.

If Kikitik is lying, and I strongly believe he is, he's pretty much already read Sun Tzu's book and has applied it magnificently. It would explain his highly successful career.
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Rosen_Ritter_1
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Rosen_Ritter_1 »

Ktrain wrote:The laugh actually shows a lack of tact and gives me a more negative impression on how Loroi compose themselves. I would have preferred a simple "No" and a ceasing of transmission. Her behavior makes the Umiak commander appear more restrained and measured in comparison.
Isn't the Loroi lacking tact pretty much a racial trait? Due to them not understanding being subtle due to telepathic communications? And that the Umiak are individually polite but in a group sociopath paranoids?

Though I am rather bemused that while both combatants are fighting a xenocidal war of annihilation, where tens of billions are indiscriminately killed in orbital bombardment and both sides are eager to force other nearby races into the conflict for their own advantage, that you're going on here about how the Loroi lack tact. Really?
TrashMan wrote:In that case Stillstorms vision of relaity must be exceptionally limited...pretty much to "how I want thingy to be".

Everything Kikitik said makes perfect sense and there is nothing to contradict it...so it does bear no resemblance to the Iraq example.
Maybe that's the case, but Stillstorm still doesn't have any actual reason to believe the Umiak on this matter. She's observed this battle group jamming Loroi far sensory abilities, but it'd be assuming significantly greater capability than what has been displayed for the Umiak to be doing this to entire fleets and breaching the Loroi lines. In that case Stillstorm would have just let herself been had.

There's also the problem of why the Umiak would display such interest in the derelict Terran ship if they were on the verge of annihilating the Loroi with their super weapon. The "Loroi interested so we're interested" doesn't make sense if the Umiak are about to destroy the Loroi. The Loroi's interest in a low tech ship is irrelevant if they're all about to be wiped out.

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Ktrain
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Ktrain »

You have got to remember that there is a third party observer on deck and how the Loroi conduct themselves may directly influence how humanity responds to an alliance offer (begrudgingly, full in, nominally). The outburst doesn't lend to the impression that Loroi are calm and level headed; instead, it reinforces the xenocidial archetype the Orgus have painted Loroi as. Alex's first few experiences with the Loroi has been predominantly negative and Stillstorm's outburst of laughter was both abrupt and quite possible unnerving for the human emissary. I mean he is speechless.

Though maybe Stillstorm chose to react this way just to anger Tempo.
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Overkill Engine »

Razor One wrote:Disinformation. She has no reason to trust anything Kikitik has to say. The best lies are the ones that mix in a little truth as well. Makes them much easier to swallow.

It's also common knowledge that the Umiak will lie, cheat, steal, refuse to flush the toilet, take the last beer in the fridge and generally do what they must in order to win the war. Pretty much par for the course in human wars. You trust your own chain of command over and above anything the enemy has to say, even if their actions appear to be illogical.

If Kikitik is lying, and I strongly believe he is, he's pretty much already read Sun Tzu's book and has applied it magnificently. It would explain his highly successful career.
In all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory. In battle, there are not more than two methods of attack - the direct and the indirect; yet these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvers. The direct and the indirect lead on to each other in turn. It is like moving in a circle - you never come to an end. Who can exhaust the possibilities of their combination?
- Sun Tzu


Fun part is you can mislead people quite well without ever speaking a lie at all. Partial information phrased in a misleading way is often more effective than the best lie.

I don't blame Stillstorm for destroying the wreckage- no matter how much the Loroi want to keep it, it is worth more to deny the Umiak access to it. Getting to laugh in the face of your enemy when you do is just a nice bonus.

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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Karst45 »

Razor One wrote:Disinformation. She has no reason to trust anything Kikitik has to say. The best lies are the ones that mix in a little truth as well. Makes them much easier to swallow.

It's also common knowledge that the Umiak will lie, cheat,
Said who? So far the only one who claim that the Umiak are liying all the time, are their worst enemy, the loroi. So can we trust them to actually be telling the true?

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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by NOMAD »

Karst45 wrote:
Razor One wrote:Disinformation. She has no reason to trust anything Kikitik has to say. The best lies are the ones that mix in a little truth as well. Makes them much easier to swallow.

It's also common knowledge that the Umiak will lie, cheat,
Said who? So far the only one who claim that the Umiak are lying all the time, are their worst enemy, the loroi. So can we trust them to actually be telling the true?
But its that the whole point, both sides aren't the most trustful, the loroi have probed and imprisoned Alex, told the Umiak aren't to be trusted. Meanwhile the Umiak, "might" have destroyed the Bell, and have come off as more diplomatic, but its still early . . .

The whole situation is unambiguous and its left to our dear hero alex to decide who to follow. Right now, how to tell who is trustful and lying are almost impossible to tell for both sides.

edit note: must be more awake when I write things :oops:
Last edited by NOMAD on Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TrashMan
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by TrashMan »

Kliktiks action make perfect sense actually.

Assuming he's tellling the truth, there is no need for him to risk further losses in an unimportant battle.The wreckage of a third party is interesting, but it's hardly worth if for eihter side. By now the Loroi should know that humans are technologicly inferior. They should also know humans control only six worlds (Alex told them that much). Based on that information alone, the value of humanity as allies is minimal.

There's no way to get the remins trough combat - the Loroi can destroy it before the Umiak reach it. The only way to get it is trough dealing with Loroi.
However, doing that means letting a perefect opportunity to destroy Stillstorms fleet go to waste. If the Umiak chraged from the cloud, the 51's would have been in deep, deep s****.

So why would the Umiak let such an opportunity go? What would be worth that?
The remains of a low-tech vessel? Hardly.

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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Rosen_Ritter_1 »

TrashMan wrote:Kliktiks action make perfect sense actually.

Assuming he's tellling the truth, there is no need for him to risk further losses in an unimportant battle.The wreckage of a third party is interesting, but it's hardly worth if for eihter side. By now the Loroi should know that humans are technologicly inferior. They should also know humans control only six worlds (Alex told them that much). Based on that information alone, the value of humanity as allies is minimal.
The Loroi concern for the humans is based on the fact that they're for all practical purposes, immune to the Loroi's greatest strategic advantage. A capability that the Umiak seem to have also displayed. This makes finding out everything you can about the humans an imperative.

Except this is clearly not the case for the Umiak. They just sacrificed a DOZEN ships just to find out how dedicated the Loroi were to defending the wreckage. To me this makes it look like the Umiak might not have as strong of a position as the commander argues. Why sacrifice a dozen ships for that wreckage? Couldn't they just bypass this Loroi task force, and continue on to attacking the main Loroi lines, which are already collapsing?

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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by TrashMan »

If the Umiak didn't destroy the Bell, then they don't know anything about humanity- how strong or usefull we are.
Furthermore, they would belive the Loroi destroyed the Bell.

And why would the Loroi destroy a unknown third party? Most probably because they pose a threat to them. Whatever the Loroi reason, the Umiak have good reason to try to find out more.

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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Nemo »

Rosen_Ritter_1 wrote:Couldn't they just bypass this Loroi task force, and continue on to attacking the main Loroi lines, which are already collapsing?
If you take what Tiky said at face value, that the Umiak fleets are already pressing Azimol, then no. Either their push succeeds or fails on its own, he can't arrive in time to influence that*. Further, the time spent here is negligible compared to transit time required to reach either the new front or resupply. What interests him at this point is what is so important about that wreck that would cause a well known and (of all things) respected Loroi commander/murderer to pause. Stillstorm engaged a Loroi task force in static defense around an obvious, but unknown, wreckage. This order of engagement cost Stillstorm two ships. Why are the Loroi sacrificing themselves in this way? If its important enough for the Stormwitch to be so concerned its important enough for Tiky to be concerned.

I can't help but wonder, of the various eccentricities Tiky is said to display for an Umiak, if were not watching him gloat a bit. I mean, ffs, the bastard just up and said all your base are belong to us, you have no chance to survive :lol:


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* They would have to exit Naam, transit at least one more system and jump to Azimol.

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Grayhome
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Grayhome »

I hope to see a major clash between the Hierarchy and the Union at Azimol, 27 has said that Hierarchy fleets are bypassing the Citadel defenses there, but I would think that instead of ignoring it entirely the Hierarchy would expend a few fleets to tie up the Union defense fleets there.

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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by fredgiblet »

Ktrain wrote:I mean he is speechless.
I expect that that has far less to do with Stillstorm being unprofessional/diplomatic and more to do with the fact that's he's just been told that the Loroi are fucked, and he's on a Loroi ship.
Rosen_Ritter_1 wrote:Except this is clearly not the case for the Umiak. They just sacrificed a DOZEN ships just to find out how dedicated the Loroi were to defending the wreckage. To me this makes it look like the Umiak might not have as strong of a position as the commander argues. Why sacrifice a dozen ships for that wreckage? Couldn't they just bypass this Loroi task force, and continue on to attacking the main Loroi lines, which are already collapsing?
1. The job of this group isn't to attack the main Loroi lines.
2. The Umiak are clearly on record as being willing to sacrifice ships at a significant rate.
3. The Loroi are willing to take an extremely tactically disadvantageous position to investigate this wreckage, the Loroi have already sacrificed 2 ships and will likely lose more to investigate this wreckage, they aren't simply interested they're practically obsessed. If the Loroi are willing to possibly commit suicide for this wreckage then the Umiak are going to be very interested.

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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Trantor »

Ktrain wrote:The laugh actually shows a lack of tact
According to Tempo this is normal in Loroi society.
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Re: Stillstorm laughed...

Post by Karst45 »

NOMAD wrote:
Karst45 wrote:
Razor One wrote:Disinformation. She has no reason to trust anything Kikitik has to say. The best lies are the ones that mix in a little truth as well. Makes them much easier to swallow.

It's also common knowledge that the Umiak will lie, cheat,
Said who? So far the only one who claim that the Umiak are lying all the time, are their worst enemy, the loroi. So can we trust them to actually be telling the true?
But its that the hollow point, both sides aren't the most trustful, the loroi have probed and imprisoned Alex, told the Umiak aren't to be trusted. Meanwhile the Umiak, "might" have destroyed the Bell, and have come off as more diplomatic, but its still early . . .

The whole situation is unambiguous and its left to our dear hero alex to decide who to follow. Right now trust and lying and almost impossible to seperate for both sides.
That still dont prove anything about the Umiak being know to lie and "cheat". The only one who seem not to be trusted are the loroi. After all they consider speech language to be treachery. For all we know what beryl showed him on the console was actually a "space lasagna recipe" that she claimed to be the report of the plasma weapon that destroyed the bell.
Rosen_Ritter_1 wrote: Why sacrifice a dozen ships for that wreckage? Couldn't they just bypass this Loroi task force, and continue on to attacking the main Loroi lines, which are already collapsing?
They made a pass over [the object in question] in hope to get a better scan at it and that the [storm-witch] would be scared and leave [the object in question] for them to study more if it was worth it.

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