Concept Fanart of Future Terran Ship Designs

[Absalom]

So in the outsider verse, it sounds like fighters have been relegated to second line duties due to the strength of point defense. However, the puny earthlings need something to relive scenes from top gun in, and i thought i could model something cool. let me present to you the SF-03 Kestrel, built assuming that man has discoved how to produce breathable fluid, may she satisfy all your GOTTAGOFAST urges.

That's fine for a aerospace fighter, but if those are needed then either the TCA is being invaded (in which case we're probably going to lose, due to our fleet already having been destroyed), or the other side is being invaded and we're providing assistance.

For a space fighter, start with the goal of preventing it from working in an atmosphere, to reduce the chances of adding things that don't really belong, like wings. Then decide on the list of parts that're needed, assume "random-walk"/motion-preserving movements for the actual flight style, and connect everything together with a combination of struts, pipes, and armor. If you wind up with a Voyager spacecraft that has a cockpit instead of a radio dish, then you've probably got the right idea.



Incidentally, the US developed breathing fluid some time ago, maybe in the 60s or 70s. It unfortunately had a habit of inducing pneumonia if used too often, due to the fact that it was oil based, and wound up preventing evaporation of ordinary fluid that develops in the lungs. Given that we eventually decided that high speed & gees had their limitations, we presumably dropped development once we had the technology working. I think it's sometimes used to clean the lungs in cases of smoke inhalation & similar. With a decade or two of further development, we could hopefully fix the pneumonia problem, especially after a century of developing our biotech and nanotech. By the time of Outsider, breathing liquid with at most minor complications for it's users has likely been developed.



Personally, for Humanity I would expect a mixture of missiles/torpedoes and fighter to gunship sized vessels to be their best near-term post-contact warship option. The idea is that small drives should be easier to produce than capital-ship drives, so a fledgling industry in high-level drive manufacturing should have an easier time producing the small drives than the large ones. Missiles, torpedoes, fighters, and gunships would probably be the only things that could really be built at first. For transport you would use either freighters, or converted TCA warships (note: transport between star systems, not into battle).

The actual weapons would presumably be somewhat disappointing, with the possible exception of Mjolnir cannons converted for use from pulse generators, which could maybe be transported by short-duration gunships (yes, this is indeed like sticking a battleship cannon onto a PT boat, but don't worry: it doesn't have to float, so it won't sink). Miserable range, but with two or three in a "flotilla" of small craft it would provide some useful heavy firepower. Depending on the nature of the problem that the Loroi have with Historian technology, maybe we could get some extra-primitive pulse cannon or wave loom knockoffs early too, or at least use use the technology to improve the Mjolnir range.

[Zakharra]

On the topic of missiles...

I've been playing with the idea of using massive, hull-mounted railguns to launch a missile bus. (Think Tolot blisters) You'd fire these at an enemy fleet, using the railguns to make up for the fact that human missiles don't have the same acceleration as their Loroi and Umiak counterparts. The missiles would work in two stages-

'snip'

Doesn't this mimic the weapons systems and tactics from Honor Harrington's Universe? Not a criticism... just an observation... its a good tactic in my opinion.


And yes... Indubitably lovely Frigate designs! Thx!

Missile pods those were (has almost all of the Honor Harrington books). A good design that let ships produce a massive first wave attack in missiles.

I agree with others that the frigate design looks good.

If it were practical to rail-launch torpedoes (or missile buses) to a high fraction of lightspeed, then wouldn't we expect that the Loroi and Umiak would already be doing this? Trying to come up with super-weapons or super-tactics for the backward Humans that would be decisive against the more-advanced, better-supplied aliens is very difficult without assuming that the aliens are either incompetent or not actually more advanced.

Perhaps Humanity can think of some application of some commonly used (by the aliens) technology that never occurred to the aliens. Differing cultures/races/species will have a different view on how things are/can be done. It's not improbably that Humans could take a piece of Loroi or Umiak tech and come up with an application to it that never occurred to those aliens. In the Honor Harrington universe, a human space nation that was considered backwards by everyone else (Grayson) wasn't given any inertial dampeners to copy, but they knew the tech existed, so they went at the problem with a relatively open mind and found a way to make inertial dampeners that were more primitive than what everyone else was using, but at least 15% m ore effective. They did the same with fission reactors. Circumstances of their planet's development meant that they didn't have access to fusion reactors until much later so their fission reactors were a LOT smaller and more efficient than anything the other powers had.

Humanity might not have a lot to offer at first, I've been wondering since I found this comic, what exactly does Humanity offer to help the Loroi win the war. But maybe just a different viewpoint is what is needed.

[Indubitably]

That's fine for a aerospace fighter, but if those are needed then either the TCA is being invaded (in which case we're probably going to lose, due to our fleet already having been destroyed), or the other side is being invaded and we're providing assistance.

For a space fighter, start with the goal of preventing it from working in an atmosphere, to reduce the chances of adding things that don't really belong, like wings. Then decide on the list of parts that're needed, assume "random-walk"/motion-preserving movements for the actual flight style, and connect everything together with a combination of struts, pipes, and armor. If you wind up with a Voyager spacecraft that has a cockpit instead of a radio dish, then you've probably got the right idea.

This almost definitely wouldn't work in atmosphere, the body might provide some lift, but probably nowhere near enough to make a 30 meter long 150-200 ton craft fly. The 'wings' provide storage for fuel, ammunition, leverage for RCS thrusters, (the black circles on the wingtips and body) and room for ECM counter measures, which is actually what I had in mind when i was making the outer wings/spars. The only reason they swing inward is to save space in their hanger, and a blended fuselage provides much needed extra space inside the body of the craft. plus, i assume it helps in keeping most of the crafts weight in line with the axis of thrust. Aside from all that, yes, i could just make it a box with thrusters on five sides and a window on the sixth, but thats no fun, nor does it look cool. I wasn't looking for this to actively fulfill a roll in the terran navy either, as interceptors in outsider usually act as AMM platforms, a roll that can probably be done better by a regular ship of the line. This was almost entirely done as an exercise in designing a good looking, obviously human craft...

...Although, now that you mention it, long range torpedo strikes by waves of fighters could be a viable tactic for humanity, with the absence of mass produced high powered ship based weaponry. The only glaring problem I can see is the lack of a steady supply of enough high powered torpedoes to make it through umiak defenses

Also, update for the kestrel. changed a few things, and added possible weapons loadouts

[Absalom]

Humanity might not have a lot to offer at first, I've been wondering since I found this comic, what exactly does Humanity offer to help the Loroi win the war. But maybe just a different viewpoint is what is needed.

I'd say production, and a potentially strategic position. Humanity actually has a fairly large population compared to the Loroi. The Loroi have more people and planets both, yes, but the population densities are much lower, Earth + Mars wouldn't result in a doubling of the alliance's population, but the blip would be noteworthy. Further, while the industry of Humanity isn't up to Loroi spec at the moment, as I best recall their industrial base has much the same relationship with that of the Loroi as the population does: smaller, but big enough to matter. It would take a while, but with some time and (especially technical) assistance to upgrade, Humanity can have a meaningful effect on the Loroi economy. Add in further recruitment of potential allies that might be found on the far side of Terran space and you have the potential for a strategic re-balancing.

That's fine for a aerospace fighter, but if those are needed then either the TCA is being invaded (in which case we're probably going to lose, due to our fleet already having been destroyed), or the other side is being invaded and we're providing assistance.

For a space fighter, start with the goal of preventing it from working in an atmosphere, to reduce the chances of adding things that don't really belong, like wings. Then decide on the list of parts that're needed, assume "random-walk"/motion-preserving movements for the actual flight style, and connect everything together with a combination of struts, pipes, and armor. If you wind up with a Voyager spacecraft that has a cockpit instead of a radio dish, then you've probably got the right idea.

This almost definitely wouldn't work in atmosphere, the body might provide some lift, but probably nowhere near enough to make a 30 meter long 150-200 ton craft fly.

I don't recall if you mentioned the powerplant, but don't underestimate the in-atmosphere value of airflow control (blown flaps, thrust vectoring). If you're using a fusion powerplant, you might even be able to figure out an MHD "lift skin". Besides which, when you consider things like the F-104 Starfighter, how is anyone supposed to tell ?

The 'wings' provide storage for fuel, ammunition, leverage for RCS thrusters, (the black circles on the wingtips and body) and room for ECM counter measures, which is actually what I had in mind when i was making the outer wings/spars. The only reason they swing inward is to save space in their hanger,

I'd include pivoting sections too, but they'd probably be mounted at the extreme front or rear, be about as long as the entire craft, and would (as a group of 3, instead of 2) hinge out into a "Y" shape.

...Although, now that you mention it, long range torpedo strikes by waves of fighters could be a viable tactic for humanity, with the absence of mass produced high powered ship based weaponry. The only glaring problem I can see is the lack of a steady supply of enough high powered torpedoes to make it through umiak defenses

The amount of torpedoes needed depends on the strength of the Umiak force. My basic assumption with that model is "at first you won't be able to deal with a large force, so prepare for a small force instead", and on top of that try to destroy them as quickly as possible. The fact that the resulting craft could be used from modified "current" vessels, and act as munitions and escorts for later larger vessels, just makes it easier to justify.

[Indubitably]

So, since cruisers are pretty sweet, and what few human ships we've seen are pretty sweet, i figured a Terran heavy cruiser class designed post loroi contact would also be pretty sweet. May I present the fightin'est 425 meters of steel, optics, and grey paint the Terran Colonial Authority can muster.




(Dat ass)




Its also modular to a degree. I made a version were I swapped out the spinal Mjolnir, and the flank turrets aft of the second red stripe for 860 large missile tubes, to complement the 240 already built into the hull, just in case we ever have the industrial capacity to beat the umiak at their own game.

[Grayhome]

I get the feeling that humanity will be known for fighting smarter than the Umiak, not harder.
Also, check out MOO 2's pulsar and lightning field, might interest ya

[GeoModder]

860 missile tubes??!
Surely they must be small-sized to fit in a cruiser hull?

[Karst45]

860 missile tubes??!
Surely they must be small-sized to fit in a cruiser hull?

well if we take the Titan that, as wiki said it, is about 3m in diameter 32m

and assume that we only stack 10 of them You ship need to be at least 65m thick by 30m high by 130m long, just to accommodate the said missile, add engines to that, launche system, crew support etc etc. still if you get a ship that 70x40x175m that still in the limit of the possible.

now i wonder, if you were to launch all the missile on the same side at the exact same time, would you ship be pushed away? teared appart?

[Hālian]

*Torn

And it'd be pushed away; you need many shit-tonnes of force to tear apart a mid-XXII c. spaceship.

[Dragoon]

hmm whine faced with an enemy that has better weapons, and technology, the most successful way to combat it is ..don't..find a way around their strengths.

perhaps an alternate to Umiack, and Loroi shielding could be developed since you know where the enemy is, and want angle direct fire weapons would be approaching from creating a temporary cloud of reflective dust to scatter and absorb incoming energy weapons fire might give Human ships just enough time to either disengage, or close to effective range.

Canisters full of decoys, jammers, and other forms of sensor scrambling devices could overwhelm the enemy sensors and force them to use up their missiles and torpedoes, as well as directed energy weapons to kill of thousands of false signals. dedicated warfare systems could be constructed to further confuse the enemy.

A fighter armed with a single shot hay mass driver, or laser cannon would be deadly if it could get in close. so a swarm of strike fighters behind the decoys, and working with the electronic warfare ships could make the Umiak even more hard pressed to focus on Terran warships. buying htem another few seconds to drive in before the enemy could focus their offensive fire on the large ships.


given enough false targets, and other deception confusion ploys. an Umiak commander could find himself spread so thin the Terrans could bloody his nose.Given the stalemate that is in place between the Umiak and Loroi, having to dedicate more forces to deal with human harassing attacks, and raids might be enough to force the Umiak to either redeploy forces, or decide humans aren't worth the resources needed to wipe them out.,,,of course that might backfire and draw the full attention of the Umiak.

Of course the most effective method of employing human forces would be to raid Umiak supply lines, harass small outposts and general wreak havoc on supply and communications resources. or as an alternative equip them with outdated, by Loroi standards vessels and have them act as a rear area uit to protect against raids, and piracy, freeing up Lori ships for the front.

Of course just using the Humans to manufacture weapons, and man non-vital facilities would also free up a good number of ships and troops for other assignments. Even if humans could only supply a few hundred million troops that's sizable force to suddenly appear in action.

[Indubitably]

Trends in naval design today are seeing destroyers increasing in size to become progressively more multi functional. So i figured a human destroyer produced post loroi contact would be largely similar, IE being larger and more capable then comparative loroi ships. This ship is 315 meters long, and geared more towards ship to ship combat then loroi destroyers. its engine pods are the same make as the ones powering Terran cruisers, streamlining production and giving this destroyer terrific acceleration despite its increased size. I imagine these ships would operate in wolf packs against smaller enemy combatants, and as escorts for the larger ships like heavy cruisers and battleships, (my next project.) And of course, all destroyer skippers must be hard charging, cigar chomping, do or die Gene Hackman/George C. Scott types. All others need not apply.

[discord]

well, that might have something to do with nutso american military acquisition and construction policy, destroyers are apparently supposed to do the job of destroyers, light and heavy cruisers AND battleships, damn silver bullet philosophy, it does not work.
relevant examples in active service, chinese destroyer 7500 tons, british destroyer 8000 tons, russian destroyer 7500 tons, US arleigh burke 10000 tons(to be replaced with the zumvalt weighing in at over 14000 tons.) see any patterns?

the destroyer is a ship class for a specific set of jobs, AntiSubWarfare, AntiAir, convoy escort(aka protecting shipping lanes) and general screening element.
the more generalist you make a military design the more expensive it gets and the efficiency at any given job goes down, add in heavy screening, raiding, coastal bombardment and a few more and it gets silly, too expensive to have in large quantities, and it effectively becomes a capital ship....so where are the screening elements then?

bottom line, it does not work, unless you are the galactic empire at which point you can use star destroyers to ferry VIP's around, still not very cost effective though.

on the subject though, the job description of terran navy destroyers would probably be interdiction(intercept and 'capture'), escort, 'coast guard' Search And Rescue, customs..... my view on it is relatively small and fast with mainly PD weapons and some torpedoes for long range punch, back to the origin of the destroyer which happens to be the torpedo boat, or rather torpedo boat hunter, with civilian support as a design feature.

[Dragoon]

I hope ya don't mind, but was thinking of a slightly different approach to countering the tech advantage of the Loroi, small fast vehicles built in large numbers and used to raid hostile convoys, and supply lines, the plan being to make any operations against Earth more expensive and problematic than any possible return on the expense would justify.

With the stalemate between the Loroi and Umiak the resources needed to launch a major offensive against earth would be hard to come by, especially if earth had even minimal reinforcements from the opposing force.



http://wbyrd.deviantart.com/art/Human-S ... 1376201064

[Indubitably]

Sniiiiiiip.

Well, I dont think the Burkes are supposed to fill the BB role, thats Zumwalt, doing it much worse then a battleship simply due to the fact that it cant sling over 40,000 pounds of 16" shells every minute. Also, I dont think you can replace a class of 75 ships with a class of 3. Either way, when has the multipurpose nature of the Burkes, (for example) 'not worked'?

With humanity starting from a (relatively) low tech base, and probably just a handful of shipyards, building one vessel with highly advanced partially alien technology to fill a couple roles would probably be a better alternative to building a couple different classes of ships with highly advanced partially alien technology for specific roles. Your shipyards, factorys and their workers will only have to know how to build one ship, or one set of components. Instead of building two or three types of reactors and thrusters (or other items with long lead times) for two or three types of ships, you have just the one type to deal with. Your parts commonality will be very high, along with your training commonality. Any logistics tail will also be shortened, freeing up shipping for other things, like hauling ore to your shipyards. Im not saying phase out everything for butt loads of Humanityfuckyeah destroyers, Im just saying that building a ship class with Ship to ship, escort, and ECM capabilitys would be better for humanitys burgeoning shipbuilding industry then lots of highly specialized classes.

[Arioch]

Modern naval surface combat isn't a very good analogue for Outsider starship combat; right now all of the most potent shipboard weapons are missiles; whether anti-surface cruise missiles, anti-air SAM missiles, or anti-submarine missiles, they are all relatively portable and can be carried on any sized vessel, so there is really not much of an argument for big surface combatants anymore. The Burke-class DDG's are essentially light cruisers, and are about as big as any non-carrier surface warship needs to get. The Navy still has ~20 Perry-class frigates, and will continue to acquire smaller ships for special purposes like the Zumwalt DD's and the littoral combat ships. The Navy isn't expecting huge fleet-on-fleet combat any time soon, but even if it happens, such combat will be all about air assets; surface vessels won't be engaging each other in fleet battles any time soon (or, probably, ever again).

The new "battleships" are the attack submarines. Tellingly, the Navy is starting to name them after states, the way battleships used to be named.

WWII-era surface combatants are a slightly better analogy, as the size of the vessel determined the power of the armament that could be carried.

American ship classes did get larger as the war went on, but the Americans had production capacity to spare. That wasn't the case for the other combatants in the war, and probably won't be the case for Humanity in 2160 (as compared to its contemporaries).

[Dragoon]

...sometimes tactics, and long term strategy can alter the effectiveness of a design.

The most effective ships and vessels early on in the war were Motor Torpedo boats and submarines. they ran harassing and interdiction operations against Japanese shipping, and did to japan what Germany tried to do to Britain.

by building small relatively easy to build vessels, which could inflict heavy damage on larger ships, the US magnified the power of the pre-midway fleet. loosing a dozen torpedo boats cost far less resources than the enemy loosing one cruiser, or several cargo vessels loaded with supplies, and troops. which meant the Torpedo boats, and subs had much more impact than their size and firepower.

Truth be told the German U-boats tied up more resources than their number and relative power would seem to make possible. IF not for the sheer production capacity of the US naval yards, the war in the Atlantic would have been a loosing one. Considering the U-boats were small, slow, and only lightly armed compared to other warships they achieved results larger warships could never have equaled...even if in the end it wasn't a war winner.

[Indubitably]

Snip

the submarine was very at successful at sinking ships during the war. And modern attack subs are one of the more deadly anti ship platforms. But they are exceedingly good at what they do because of the medium they inhabit. water allows the sub to close to what would be suicidal ranges for any kind of ship or plane, and water also allows that sub to deliver firepower far above its weight class. however, you cant compare sub Vs surface ship combat in any kind of realistic space setting, because the medium that lets the sub do all this isnt there. Aint no stealth in space. The closesest comparison for a small ship with big short range punch taking on a larger ship in the outsider universe would be a small powerboat loaded with RPGs having a go at a carrier battlegroup. It just aint happening. same thing with torpedo boats, they relied on the cover of night to sneak into range of their targets, in space, any move you make with your spacecraft will be visible half a system away, and you will be targeted and destroyed loooong before you get to launching range.

American ship classes did get larger as the war went on, but the Americans had production capacity to spare.

That is actually a good point. I hadn't thought of it that way.

[Dragoon]

Well, yeah stealth is a bit more difficult in space..not totally impossible but simply sneaking up on and enemy isn't gonna happen that often unless they enemy is really sloppy.

Use of Electronic warfare, decoys, and deception techniques, would be key to a successful raid by smaller ships. Hitting soft targets such as supply ships, small patrols, communications assets,and outposts would be safer than a force on force battle, since you would be dealing with a less powerful force than say... a battle fleet.

If I were developing a strategy to counter the Umiak, or Loroi, I'd build smaller vessels in larger numbers. easier to produce, fewer trained crewman needed per ship., and much less in the way of resources per ship expended.

By spreading out smaller ships across a wide area the Umiak would be forced to reinforce keep facilities, protect convoys more heavily, and spend a great deal of time and effort to try and swat a swarm of Hornets.

While larger ships would be needed to counter any probe into human space by a umiak battle group, the fact that pulling a large force off the line against the Loroi, or off of defense patrols would leave some portion of Umiak open to more effective attacks.

If I read it right, the Umiak are locked in a pretty solid stalemate. A sudden change in force deployments, or patrols could conceivably cause a problem on the Loroi front.Unless the Umiak have a large reserve of older ships, or can boost production they would be hard pressed to mount a major offensive without a violent Loroi reaction.

[Indubitably]

Well, yeah stealth is a bit more difficult in space..not totally impossible but simply sneaking up on and enemy isn't gonna happen that often unless they enemy is really sloppy.

Its not that stealth in space is difficult, its straight up impossible without hiding behind the stellar terrain. For example, something like the space shuttles RCS thrusters firing could be detected out to the asteroid belt, with equipment available today. Even if your ship is just drifting its hull is going to be heated by the sun, making it highly visible against a background of 3 degree kelvin nothingness. To top it all off, a full visual scan of the sky takes around 4 hours, again, with equipment available today.

Which wont even matter, because I dont see a way to get at undefended umiak territory and assets that doesnt involve decisively defeating a umiak defensive fleet first. Even if you did, you would be detected when you jump into the next umiak system, which would alert all umiak units In said system to your presence. Any further movements with your small raiders would simply give all umiak warships in system something to home in on. The point where raiding becomes possible is the point where it no longer becomes useful

[discord]

indubitably: just saying that terran navy needs and actual hardware is more along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skjold_class_patrol_boat as compared to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt-class_destroyer

or if you want a bit more capable either http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom-cl ... ombat_ship or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independen ... ombat_ship would be good places to start modeling on.

my point on the 'too many jobs' was the zumwalt, not the arleigh burke, but BOTH are over sized compared to similar ships in other navies.