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Post Re: Page: 118
I'm not sure if this has been commented on... But if I'm not mistaken, practically every Loroi who has had any kind of prolonged contact with Alex appears to be aboard the shuttle. The only exceptions being the two medical personnel who treated him and were present when he first regained consciousness. Beryl, Fireblade, Tempo, Spiral and Talon, the dark haired one in the green uniform ( "Shoe girl"; Tempo's aide?) and even two of the three marines that guarded his cell are all currently being sent away, either at Tempo's request or Stillstorm's demand.

I don't think that this is a sign of anyone in the Loroi chain of command being up to anything nefarious, because if they were trying to get rid of Alex and anyone with particular knowledge of him, then the two medics and the third marine would be on the shuttle, too.

Rather, I think there are two, possibly three factors at work here. One, Tempo is savvy enough to know that her superiors are going to want to grill anyone with any potentially useful knowledge of Alex, and taking two marines, two pilots, and a unsheathed was probably a big enough ask before trying to rob the Tempest's medical staff as well*. Second, judging by Tempo and Stillstorm's interaction on the bridge and Beryl's comment on boarding the shuttle, Stillstorm certainly wanted the spooks off her ship no matter what, and was likely trying to remove any potential distractions from among her crew by removing as many people who had contact with Alex as possible. Alternatively, the Loroi on the shuttle are all Tempo's people. Beryl and Shoe Girl are clearly Tempo's subordinates. Spiral and Talon were trusted with closely examining an unknown alien wreck and retrieving a mortally wounded alien, and Fireblade and the two marines have been explicitly tasked with handling Alex's security, which are all tasks that one would expect to be handled by military intelligence, rather than regular military personnel.

* Anything the medics observed would've been recorded, and the marines certainly had more contact with Alex than the medics did. Anything the medics would have to say about Alex would likely be covered in their reports and logs, but the Marines' observations and thoughts regarding Alex would probably not be, and getting Stillstorm to part with two grunts was probably easier than trying to pry away some of her medical staff.


Fri Jun 16, 2017 5:21 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
Arioch wrote:
Alex is now in charge of the diplomatic mission to the Loroi, but he's also without a ship or any way to contact home, and totally dependent on the goodwill of his captors. If he were to conclude that Loroi could not be trusted with the location of Earth, then the diplomatic mission has failed and his only recourse would be to commit suicide as quickly as possible. The higher he went up the diplomatic food chain, the more insulted the Loroi would be when he refused to answer the most basic questions about the nation he claimed to represent.

Enough people have mentioned this that I think it's clear that the narrator ideally should have said something about his decision to reveal this information, but I have been trying to avoid conspicuous walls of text.


Here's a not thoroughly thought out idea: Add a page somewhere in the Captain Hamilton and Ensign Jardain's conversation flashback (pages 92-95) that breifly touches on the idea. Maybe the Captain can ask Alex's thoughts on sending scouts at all. I don't see a need to have the full debate in the comic. You certainly don't need to go through the arguments on both sides. Just a bit to let the reader know that 1) this problem has been anticipated, 2) it has been debated, 3) a decision has been made, and 4) the decision is to tell the Aliens where earth is. This avoids using the narrator, and it gives a chance to hear a little bit more about Ens Jardain's thoughts on the mission.

Like I said though, I spent maybe 30 seconds thinking about it. No idea how retroactively adding a strip would actually be accomplished, or if it's even feasible. Obvious challenge: inserting a new strip between two old ones will probably break the transition. May require partial re-writes on two strips.

[EDIT] Having re-read the scene, I wouldn't try to add anything new to it. The existing dialog is pretty solid already, so is the line of questioning. Adding a new strip would mean rewriting the whole scene, not just the transitions. Like I said, poorly thought out.

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Last edited by Gudo on Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:48 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
Starne wrote:
Alternatively, the Loroi on the shuttle are all Tempo's people.


It's likely this. When Alex first woke up Stillstorm had authority to order a mind probe on him. When he woke up again he was hurried along to Tempo on the bridge who just so happened to have a video call up with two other diplomats. Immediately when Stillstorm came back from her toilet break, Tempo established a diplomatic mission with Alex, putting her as the Mizol effectively in charge of Alex. From forum posts and Insider I recall that Loroi have a byzantine and complicated system of caste interactions. So it's likely in my opinion that Tempo can now pull rank on Stillstorm. In fact, we see her do so several times on the bridge.

Alex is then thrown in the brick again. Likely because Tempest is a vessel under combat status and her captain can therefore override certain caste authorities. The guards tasked with Alex however may have been requisitioned by Tempo as military attachees for the diplomatic mission. In that case Tempo probably asked for volunteers first.

If that is true, then every Loroi on the shuttle, apart from maybe the pilots, may be a) a direct subordinate of Tempo (Shoe girl, Beryl) or b) a volunteer to the diplomatic mission (Reed, Fireblade, Beryl). This means Tempo is in charge now. A possible explanation of Beryls shocked expression once Tempo enters the shuttle. Plus Tempo is the political officer assigned to Stillstorm, an outspoken and famous opponent of the Emperor. Who Stillstorm just kicked of her ship


Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:44 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
Beryl isn't subordinate to Tempo neither is Fireblade or the Soroin marines. They are all their 'own' agents with similar but possibly conflicting orders. Here is my take on everything.

Beryl is the officer 'in charge' of Alex for the duration of the trip, her demeanor towards Tempo and Talon when they 'intruded' in her task points straight to this fact. She received this task by Stillstorm who wanted the alien OFF her ship as quickly as possible and needed someone to take responsibility for the transit and that very someone should not be a) someone she wanted on the ship b) someone irreplaceable; Beryl fits this to a T from the looks of things and was ecstatic at the prospect.

Fireblade is the officer tasked with both 'protecting' Alex and protecting the Union from Alex. Alex is the absolute unknown for the Loroi, for all they know he is an unimaginably powerful and extremely disciplined telepath of a race that is now working with the Hierarchy. If Alex proves to be hostile Fireblade may have been given the authority to kill him, Tempo and Beryl be damned. The marines are there with her because it's a task she can't really do alone in the worse case scenario and those two probably have had the most interaction with Alex so far. Stillstorm has probably given her this task.

Tempo is the ranking Mizol of Tempest and the 51st. Her duties to her caste and the Union demand that she be around the new alien ambassador, gather as much information about him as possible and manipulate him diplomatically. She will probably defer to Beryl in certain situations but will act on her own accord when the situation demands of it. Hell she might even convince Beryl on a certain course of action that suits her, her caste is a manipulative one after all. Cloud has been established as being Tempo's gopher, so she has to be around. It's quite possible that Tempo has been in cahoots with Fireblade, offering her assistance if Alex is indeed hostile but asking for the Teidar's and her marine's full cooperation if Alex is friendly. The bag that Cloud gave to Fireblade must have something to do with this arrangement. Tempo is probably using her admiralty authority to detach herself from Stillstorm's command. Stillstorm may not even know of her being in the shuttle yet.

Talon and Spiral are the shuttle pilots, they will certainly be debriefed by Stillstorm about the Alien but they don't really have ulterior motives.

So all in all, nothing is as simple as it looks.

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Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:32 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
You're assuming Stillstorm has full authority here. But she clearly has not. See http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider061.html. Stillstorm even remarks later on how convenient for Alex his new role is.

I don't remember anymore where I read that Beryl is a subordinate of Tempo. But both are information officers, with Beryl being the junior one and of a different caste. I could be wrong. Could be just a childhood memory. That she thought Alex would be her responsibility during transit is clear. We don't know yet what exactly she is in charge of. From the look of thinks, she wasn't happy to see Tempo though.


Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:02 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
I am fairly certain the Tempo's and Stillstorm's feud is down to the Byzantine command structure of the Loroi, not because Tempo actually outranks her. Stillstorm is in command of the 51st and Tempo is the chief MP, espionage and diplomatic officer of the ship and by extension the strike group; which means that Tempo is normally subordinate to Stillstorm and has to obey her orders.

However the Mizol have gotten a few perks with the Ascension of one of their own to the throne and the subsequent coup which followed said ascension. One of which is the Mizols can yield admiralty level authority should the situation demand it. I am fairly certain that Tempo took a huge gamble with bringing Alex to the bridge in order to probe him for information and 'protect' him by recognizing him as a diplomat. Up until that point Alex was a prisoner of war and as such without any legal protection and as thus Stillstorm (being convinced that he is a Spy) could order any number of things to be done to him, up to and including execution.

Now Tempo is the diplomatic officer and has the ability to give admiralty level commands on certain situations, her recognition of Alex as a diplomat is the result of her using that ability but it only goes that far. She got Alex under legal protection and was able to get him to stay on the bridge to witness Bellarmine's destruction but that's only as far as she could go; wisely choosing to not complain when Stillstorm chose to exchange words with the Umiak commander.

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Last edited by dragoongfa on Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:17 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
Precisely. Tempo established a diplomatic mission and that means she has authority in certain diplomatic matters now. My assumption now is that the Loroi taking part in this mission, Beryl, Cloud, Reed and Fireblade and possibly the two pilots are now subordinates of Tempo in this matter.


Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:38 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
Marginal and situational authority, she can talk to and converse the alien diplomat about official business but she can't order the others around on anything that doesn't have to do with diplomacy or espionage.

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Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:39 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
dragoongfa wrote:
Marginal and situational authority, she can talk to and converse the alien diplomat about official business but she can't order the others around on anything that doesn't have to do with diplomacy or espionage.


Given that the Loroi are dealing with a first contact with a previously entirely unknown alien civilization, "Things that have to do with diplomacy and espionage" can be logically extended to include quite a lot. Basically, Tempo's authority shot way, way up the moment she formally recognized Alex as an ambassador in front of third-party witnesses. Prior to this, Stillstorm was still likely free to treat him as the infiltrator she likely believes he is, hence the interrogation*. It's likely that having Alex brought to the bridge so Tempo could recognize him in front of witnesses was the only way to make sure Stillstorm didn't end up torturing him to death or executing him as a spy.

It's pretty clear that Tempo was making a power play. First, Alex's escort to the bridge was small (Beryl and Fireblade, plus Shoe Girl), at least two of which were likely directly or indirectly subordinate to Tempo. Second, Tempo was obviously in a hurry to recognize Alex as a diplomat before Stillstorm showed up. Third, we have Stillstorm's "Yeah, well that's convenient for you, isn't it?" response to this. Finally, we have Stillstorm taking the opportunity to get Alex, Tempo and Beryl (Shoe Girl too, I guess) off her ship at the earliest possible opportunity, even giving up her personal shuttle to make sure they're all as far away as possible as fast as possible.

* Note that Tempo says that "Unforeseen events" prevented her from being the one who initially interviewed Alex. IMO the most likely scenario is that Alex woke up sooner than expected (Note that everyone present was rather surprised when Alex woke up, in fact the Loroi might not have been expecting him to wake up at all), and rather than being close by and ready to swoop in, Tempo was probably overseeing the process of picking over the Bellarmine. Stillstorm, by virtue of being the CO, found out about Alex being awake first, and immediately went down to the medical bay to interrogate him, making a point of doing so before Tempo could claim jurisdiction over the situation.


Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:51 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
You are all overanalyzing the presence of all the characters that we have seen all in the shuttle.

There is a simple out of universe explanation. you dont create new characters in a story when an old character can do the same job. Especially for a comic where you have to design them instead of just describing them.


Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:32 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
primarch359 wrote:
You are all overanalyzing the presence of all the characters that we have seen all in the shuttle.

There is a simple out of universe explanation. you dont create new characters in a story when an old character can do the same job. Especially for a comic where you have to design them instead of just describing them.


But overanalyzing is fun!


Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:17 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
Zamballo wrote:
I don't remember anymore where I read that Beryl is a subordinate of Tempo. But both are information officers, with Beryl being the junior one and of a different caste. I could be wrong. Could be just a childhood memory. That she thought Alex would be her responsibility during transit is clear. We don't know yet what exactly she is in charge of. From the look of thinks, she wasn't happy to see Tempo though.
Beryl is the Chief "Librarian" of the Tempest: Listel have perfect memories, and this is used to carry records of telepathic conversations around, as well as whatever else they pick up in the meanwhile. Tempo, in comparison, is roughly a Soviet Political Commisar, charged with ensuring loyalty, dealing with pesky allies, and gathering intelligence on the enemy.

Very different roles, despite the obvious overlap.


Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:24 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
Absalom wrote:
Zamballo wrote:
I don't remember anymore where I read that Beryl is a subordinate of Tempo. But both are information officers, with Beryl being the junior one and of a different caste. I could be wrong. Could be just a childhood memory. That she thought Alex would be her responsibility during transit is clear. We don't know yet what exactly she is in charge of. From the look of thinks, she wasn't happy to see Tempo though.
Beryl is the Chief "Librarian" of the Tempest: Listel have perfect memories, and this is used to carry records of telepathic conversations around, as well as whatever else they pick up in the meanwhile. Tempo, in comparison, is roughly a Soviet Political Commisar, charged with ensuring loyalty, dealing with pesky allies, and gathering intelligence on the enemy.

Very different roles, despite the obvious overlap.


Commissar you say?

Image

Someone with skills needs to get on the fanart ASAP.


Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:27 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
primarch359 wrote:
You are all overanalyzing the presence of all the characters that we have seen all in the shuttle.

There is a simple out of universe explanation. you dont create new characters in a story when an old character can do the same job. Especially for a comic where you have to design them instead of just describing them.


I for one would have been seriously disappointed if Beryl, Fireblade, Tempo, Spiral and Talon weren't there. Its unlikely we will see anyone from the Tempest ever again, or at least for a very long time.


Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:33 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
I'm gonna go on a huge guess. I, subconsciously, remember that Humanity's role in this war was summed up akin to the Hobbits: little fighting, but a lot of struggle nonetheless. But then we also remember that hobbits ran into enemy territory to destroy what the enemy wanted most, what gave the enemy absolute power and even cohesion. Then I line that up with the established fact that Humanity is 'invisible' to the Loroi, making Humanity almost worthless to them but extremely valuable to the Umi. But after a decade, I doubt that we're ever going to see Jardin chatting up a Umiak so nicely, making that a red herring (but extremely useful in any future Loroi-Human war) and it looks like he's slotted the Loroi as the ones to side with. (And he did chose the Loroi back in Earth space anyway!)

With this page, seeing how the Loroi are realizing that Human space is out there in the middle of the respective nowhere and just so nicely is along the flank of the Umiak, I also think, like others have already mused already, that it's all going to end up with a huge flanking operation. Maybe Jardin goes back to the scouts with Beryl and a few others as attaches, scouts out Umiak space, then goes back to Earth where a huge Loroi fleet has assembled and then leads them back to open a huge second front, forcing the huge built-up forces of the Umiak to break up and allowing a breakthrough somewhere and thereof an end to the war.

And that'll be fine. The war's been at a stalemate for the last eight years and with the limits Humanity has in this 'verse, and with no other advantage which could be discerned that the Loroi can take advantage of (and much to the chagrin of the Umiak if they ever find out that Humanity could had basically become the Predators of Space if given enough resources to build up a huge fleet and hit the Loroi), it's the only logical thing which could occur. Or maybe Humanity is also connected to the Soia, which could provide a massive boost in tech for both Humanity and the Loroi and slice through the Umiak, but that's just off on what the Barsam said and maybe the reaction the crew of the Tempest had to the Mickey-Mouse send-off. Plus, I care about the characters, so even what happens it'll be a nice ride.


Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:10 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
its unlikely we'll see earth or another human until after the story is won and Alex is heading home a hero.

the story is going to be focused on the umiak's new ability to by pass the loroi's farseers and who ever destroyed the earth ship (likely new enemy playing both sides.) and Alex's role in stopping both.


Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:40 am
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Post Re: Page: 118
I simply long for a subtext for the lorai when we see panels that hint at the use of sanzai.
There is much that would become clear and I am certain it would also lead to more questions.

If we were to switch the sexes (I will use the term sex because I think that lorai gender is not the same as human gender) we would see an all male Sparta like group of warriors treating a lone alien female crew member like one of their own females who was suspected of possible espionage. Not too kindly and with conflicting agendas (stillstorm versus tempo) but still with a restraint that a wholly alien being might not receive.

Jardin wasn't treated well but I am certain that if the lorai really wanted him to spill the beans they could have resorted to less subtle means. Like chemical injections and removal of digits or deprivation.


Some of their behavior is matronizing to say the least. A sort of "Don't you worry your pink male head about meeting your folks, we got this covered honey".

That's my take on it.


Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:41 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
DavalKatro wrote:
I simply long for a subtext for the lorai when we see panels that hint at the use of sanzai.
There is much that would become clear and I am certain it would also lead to more questions.

If we were to switch the sexes (I will use the term sex because I think that lorai gender is not the same as human gender) we would see an all male Sparta like group of warriors treating a lone alien female crew member like one of their own females who was suspected of possible espionage. Not too kindly and with conflicting agendas (stillstorm versus tempo) but still with a restraint that a wholly alien being might not receive.

Jardin wasn't treated well but I am certain that if the lorai really wanted him to spill the beans they could have resorted to less subtle means. Like chemical injections and removal of digits or deprivation.


Some of their behavior is matronizing to say the least. A sort of "Don't you worry your pink male head about meeting your folks, we got this covered honey".

That's my take on it.
Rereading the comic with that in mind, page 101 has Beryl speaking like unto a small panicking child.


Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:45 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
I agree!


Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:03 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
I would like to humbly second Orion's requests for a Beryl/Tempo alternate universe Soviet Style wall paper.


Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:41 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
I have been wondering about loroi deviance .

I Imagine a subculture (a cult) that is secretly trying to use genetic engineering to make a higher ratio of male to female (cloning or in the womb) discovery of anyone affiliated with this group makes you an instant pariah (or dead).

A second possibility is a thriving black market for loroi females with a fetish for strong domineering males. This is a shameful secret that can destroy careers.

The existence of "sperm thieves" . Theft of male seminal fluid before ,during or after the act.
I am certain that this is tricky due to pedigree and family honor but I can see some loroi becoming desperate enough to try pregnancy via dubious means. Especially if having a particular biological sire being important to a female for some reason but is unavailable for political /social reasons.

Disclaimer: the above is not intended to offend anyone.


Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:31 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
DavalKatro wrote:
I have been wondering about loroi deviance .

I Imagine a subculture (a cult) that is secretly trying to use genetic engineering to make a higher ratio of male to female (cloning or in the womb) discovery of anyone affiliated with this group makes you an instant pariah (or dead).

A second possibility is a thriving black market for loroi females with a fetish for strong domineering males. This is a shameful secret that can destroy careers.

The existence of "sperm thieves" . Theft of male seminal fluid before ,during or after the act.
I am certain that this is tricky due to pedigree and family honor but I can see some loroi becoming desperate enough to try pregnancy via dubious means. Especially if having a particular biological sire being important to a female for some reason but is unavailable for political /social reasons.

Disclaimer: the above is not intended to offend anyone.


I wonder if the biggest deviance for Loroi would be the desire for privacy. Maybe some rogue elements, like criminals, would be very interested in the human lotai just in case it could be replicated.


Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:43 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
Hmm... I have used one of the above for a plot point in a story that is in the works.

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Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
@ raistlin34 I am chagrined that is did not think of that one. A Loroi eschewing sanzai would be akin to a human has perfectly good hearing but refuses to use them.

@ dragoonfa I look forward to reading it.


Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:56 pm
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Post Re: Page: 118
DavalKatro wrote:
@ raistlin34 I am chagrined that is did not think of that one. A Loroi eschewing sanzai would be akin to a human has perfectly good hearing but refuses to use them.


Like that woman who poured bleach into her eyes because she wanted to be blind.
Do the Loroi have a version of Doctor Phil?


Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:59 am
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