A Call to... Arms - Page 127

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Sartorius
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Re: A Call to... {Spoilers} - Page 127

Post by Sartorius »

First time poster and also did not follow most of past discussion during the last years so I do not know whether this already has been discussed...
entity2636 wrote: - How did Umiaks "suddenly" (as far we/Loroi know anyway) become farseer-invisible?

They vivisected the other group of scouts and figured out the mechanism that lets humans be farseer-invisible. Alternatively, they've always had this ability (through convergent evolution, which seems to be a theme in this story... hello sexually compatible space babes light-years away) but up till now they've successfully kept it under wraps.

- Why are the Umiaks attacking now specifically?

Seems too big a coincidence that humans show up with weird interactions with Loroi telepathy and the Umiak suddenly surprise the Loroi with a similar new found ability at the 11th hour after however many years the war has already been playing out. Either they just got it, or they came across a reason to think the Loroi might figure out they've always had it to whatever extent.
I guess this is no coincidence at all. Maybe Alex's presence in the Loroi fleet and the farseers' blindness are directly related. There is this loss of consciousness of our protagonist with missing hours at the beginning of the story which is rather suspicious from a story teller's point of view. Maybe Alex lost more than a few hours. He might have been planted on the Loroi, his memory might have been tampered or might be even completely artificial. So it is not strictly necessary for the Umiak to have been able to immediately weaponise humans after capture. Maybe much more time has passed. It could be that Alex is a trap by the enemy, a poisoned bait directly causing the blindness of the farseers somehow. Or the Loroi finding Alex has been arranged by a third party as a reaction to finding out about the Umiak planning an offensive with immunity to farseeing. I am thinking of the secretive librarians. Concerned about the balance of power but also unwilling to reveal their intelligence capabilities they let the Loroi find Alex to give them a chance to understand the advantage the Umiak gained.

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CrimsonFALKE
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Re: A Call to... - Page 127

Post by CrimsonFALKE »

I'll just leave this here. :mrgreen:

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oh my![/quote]

Hahaha... indeed ~ a 'rare' beauty! :lol:[/quote]
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WalexB
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by WalexB »

entity2636 wrote:the loroi at a very young age learn to block their minds against intrusions.
Sure, but I am not sure you are familiar with "pillow talk" and what people dump during sex, even for "binzer" specieses like humans. The "Insider" section on telepathy adds:
Skin-to-skin physical contact between Loroi automatically creates a direct telepathic link that is much stronger and more intimate than normal remote telepathy. Sending between linked individuals is faster and carries more bandwidth, nearly equaling the sharing of thoughts. ... However, the direct physical link involves the lowering of a substantial portion of one’s personal barriers, and so is normally only done between close friends, or as an explicit demonstration of trust. ... Most Loroi can perceive some of the surface thoughts of another Loroi if the two are sharing a direct physical link, but it is much harder to do at range, and especially without the target being aware of the contact. ... very subtly establishing a covert contact without the subject even being aware of it.
I guess sex is 10 times worse, because of the more intimate physical contact and the "distraction" of the moment. Sex between or with a farseer probably is 10 worse again. Perhaps if farseers have sex on a planet, the whole population "feels" it :-).

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dragoongfa
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by dragoongfa »

I think that it is safe to assume that the surface thoughts when having sex will only revolve around sex so there is little to no chance of a male learning state secrets without actively probing her mind for them; something that she will realize that he is doing and then all bets are off about his safety regardless of male status.

WalexB
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by WalexB »

Alex seems to be smart enough to realize that he's representing all of humanity right now, and that the first impression he gives could have lasting consequences.
He is also representing MALE humanity, and he may be of french origin, and he also represent the human male pilot/jock group :-).
I'm not going to try to make predictions on the "will they, won't they," angle
Now our good Arioch sets up a story with hugely cute blue elves who stay young and cute for 400 years and are 90% females and 100% so in the military, and has put several panels already where Alex gets checked out/fussed over.
I'm honestly more curious to see if Alex will ever get a chance to experience telepathy, or if his mental shields will remain impenetrable throughout the whole story.
I think that it is very important to the world-building and the plot that humans be complete telepathic blanks.

BTW I just reread the section on Loroi biology and some highlights:
Young Loroi mature rapidly, reaching physical adulthood in 8 years, but age slowly, potentially living for 400 years or more. Loroi do not show significant signs of aging until shortly before they die.
Uhm, women that stay young and cute for 400 years...
the social structure of the Loroi normally puts tight restrictions on the access of females to the males. The Loroi view this as an important adaptation for a warrior species, as they have the flexibility to rapidly increase their population growth (or stagnate it) as the situation demands through social controls.
They may have a "Loroi pill" perhaps and certainly condoms too, or perhaps human males could have a really huge appeal :-). Perhaps a bit too hot to touch, with a 10C difference, but cosy :-).
In some cases, a very influential private group or individual may be able to secure long-term access to the rights to a male.
I seem to understand that before the Umiak war almost all Loroi sex with males was non-reproductive, so this might be interesting.
As you might expect, it's difficult for a female to force herself on a male in any meaningful way beyond pure physical abuse. However, such a refusal would be pretty rare; Loroi males are very good sports (and most Loroi warrior females are healthy, fit, good-looking people).
I see already a few billion human males flooding towards Loroi space... BTW there is an interesting possibility here for a merged Loroi/human force: spaceships piloted by human pilots, who are undetectable and mostly immune to telepathic weapons (except telekinesis), and frozen Loroi crews. However humans can be disabled by very intense telepathy (as in the first Fireblade/Alex encounter), but not compromised. The Mannadi have resistance too, but not as good as the humans, and they are still enemies.
Love is permitted and even encouraged, but attachment is not. Loroi females enjoy the mating encounters, and not just the physical aspect of them, and can develop strong affection for the male mating partner and remember the interaction fondly for many years thereafter, during the long periods in which she will be expected to go without having sex. However, because the males must be shared with other females, there are taboos against infatuation and jealousy. ... However, rules are made to be broken
Alex seems devoted to the "rules are made to be broken" line.
and a female with sufficient power and privilege can, if she wishes, see a particular male more than once, or even have him allocated exclusively to herself.
Or shared with a few others :-)

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orion1836
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by orion1836 »

cacambo43 wrote:I don't care how you spin it, Alex having any relationship with a Loroi (female, presumably) risks way to much in terms of diplomatic relations with him specifically and with humanity in general. It is also massively unprofessional. I can see the *tension* being there, and an expression of feelings, but at this stage, any deeper relationship would risk a tremendous amount. In my opinion.

Also, if Beryl does harbor feelings for him, how likely is it she could or would keep that from others via sanzai? There is (or will be) tension amongst the crew and others around them for sure about what that means and what to do about it, surely?

CJSF
That was my line of thinking when it comes to the reason why Alex was kept in a cell (vice quarters) while on the Tempest, even after he was recognized as a representative of Humanity. True, Stillstorm could have simply been trying to be as conservative as possible when it came to securing an unknown entity, but she could have achieved the same effect by confining him to quarters (unless of course there are no spare quarters on a warship like Tempest... this isn't the diplomatic Enterprise-D, after all).

The cell, to my mind, would keep him isolated from the crew. Outside of author reasons (conservation of characters) for the cast to follow him on the shuttle, I don't think it's an accident that all Loroi who were closely involved with him wound up leaving. Stillstorm probably wanted to minimize the sanzai impressions of the Loroi-like male alien that would inevitably bounce around the ship.

Anyhow, I don't think we'll be seeing anything of a romantic nature anytime soon. Since being picked up by the Loroi, Alex has probably interacted more with his guards (presumably Reed and Fireblade) more than he ever has with Beryl, and he just met Talon. This comic may have been going on for years, but in-universe, I think Alex and Beryl have maybe spent 2-3 hours together at most.

I could see a scene where, after all the tension wears off and the group is safe on the Clearbrook or something, Beryl is overcome by the rapid change in the tide of the war. I could see some interesting misunderstandings happen if Alex instinctively tried to comfort her with a hug, especially if she was crying. That could form the basis for something more later on, but nothing much else at the moment.

EDIT - Long term though? Alex never goes home. Beryl asks Tempo to work in a rider in the eventual treaty with Humanity that appoints Alex as a 'long term liaison' permanently assigned to Loroi space. :mrgreen:

I hope I'm wrong, but Talon and Spiral seem to be in the perfect spot for a tragic death. The law of conservation of characters I mentioned earlier runs both ways. There's enough to them to make the audience like and care for the characters, but they're not part of the main group. Losing Reed or Shoegirl (Cloud?) wouldn't have much emotional impact if Arioch wanted to punch up the stakes, but the pilots? Yeah... here's hoping they become part of the main group.

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icekatze
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by icekatze »

hi hi
orion1836 wrote:(unless of course there are no spare quarters on a warship like Tempest... this isn't the diplomatic Enterprise-D, after all).
I'm pretty sure the standard operating procedure on a contemporary human warship, in this situation, would be to kick someone out of their quarters and double them up elsewhere to give the VIP a room. If they were trying to be hospitable. Although, I imagine they'd have had some spare rooms for past pilots.
orion1836 wrote:Losing Reed or Shoegirl (Cloud?) wouldn't have much emotional impact if Arioch wanted to punch up the stakes...
Nooooo! Not Shoegirl! Soroin Paset Nial has just gotta live. :cry:

Also, Reed's pretty cool too. You know what they say, "the way to a man's heart is through his stomach so make sure you give him food that burns a hole straight through it."

(I think I must have been a Gamemaster in RPGs too long, I can't help but latch onto background NPCs.)

entity2636
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by entity2636 »

icekatze wrote:
entity2636 wrote:The way I see it, some of Stillstorm's officers, notably Tempo and Beryl, didn't believe him, but Stillstorm did and made full steam towards Azimol.
I gotta say, I got the opposite impression of Stillstorm. I think she absolutely doesn't believe Clicky-27. On page 100, we learn from Beryl that strike group 51 is being resupplied, then being sent back out as soon as possible. Instead of going to Azimol, Stillstorm's plan seems to be to turn right back around and get to what she believed to be the front.
True, and I'm not saying you are wrong or I'm 100% right. It could very well be the other way around or somewhere in between - Stillstorm being sure Clicky is bluffing, but Tempo not being so sure about it. Although she openly tells Alex to not take everything the Umiaks say at face value, it's better to be safe than sorry, because every lie has a bit of truth in it. Tempo pressures Stillstorm to fly back towards Azimol (the supply depot at Leido being just one jump away and they need to resupply anyway) and they have their argument resulting in, as Beryl nicely put it, the Commander getting tired of seeing ~certain people~ around her.

However, the 6 Umiak divisions encountered it Sala-128 (already inside Loroi space) seem to prove Clicky was telling the truth, and note how on Page 122 Stillstorm is absolutely not impressed with the news and pretty much tells Ashrain to "cool it" and wait for everyone else to resupply. Then on Page 127 she, rather matter-of-factly, as if expecting it, states that Leido is contested now and goes on setting up their lines of battle.

That being said, we don't see much of Stillstorm during all of this and it may very well be that she was indeed caught off guard with the sudden reports about umiak activity pouring in. I can kind of imagine Stillstorm choking on her cup of tea in her ready room when the first reports come in, but she doesn't strike me as a very emotional person, someone who's easily shaken, rather as someone who's usually calm as a rock, even in stressful situations, but once she's angry, she'll turn into the personification of rage itself.

entity2636
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by entity2636 »

WalexB wrote:Sure, but I am not sure you are familiar with "pillow talk" and what people dump during sex, even for "binzer" specieses like humans.
As a matter of fact, no, I'm not familiar with this concept :) I also do not have sex with random people, my colleagues or business associates, and at home we have established a "rule" that work stays at work. I'd dare to say that if, during/after sex, you're thinking or talking about work, you're not focusing enough on the sex or doing it mechanically ;)
WalexB wrote:I guess sex is 10 times worse, because of the more intimate physical contact and the "distraction" of the moment. Sex between or with a farseer probably is 10 worse again. Perhaps if farseers have sex on a planet, the whole population "feels" it :-).
Have to agree with Dragoongfa here - one's thoughts during sex should be revolving around sex, especially since the loroi women have so little of it. For some it may even be a once in a lifetime experience and I can't imagine a loroi woman just laying there like a log, pondering about corporate takeovers or intelligence reports while the guy is busy doing his thing :D

Regarding the female farseers, I'm actually not sure they are even allowed to mate since their telepathy is said to be powerful enough that even being in the same room with her can be dangerous and she could accidentally fry someone's brain just by talking telepathically to them. If two farseers were at it and were to drop their mental barriers, the whole sector would probably feel that S-bomb :lol:
WalexB wrote:They may have a "Loroi pill" perhaps and certainly condoms too, or perhaps human males could have a really huge appeal :-). Perhaps a bit too hot to touch, with a 10C difference, but cosy :-).
Loroi have the means to reversibly sterilize their women, particularly the ones who look after the men or live/work close to them, but a condom would likely be something unthinkable for them since they apparently do not engage in recreational sex and men are few and far between. Also, as far as I've seen in the background information, Loroi don't have any STDs to protect against, at least no incurable ones.
WalexB wrote:I seem to understand that before the Umiak war almost all Loroi sex with males was non-reproductive, so this might be interesting.
Actually no, there was very little sex at all for the Loroi because access to men was restricted by the government to keep the population growth in check. During the war, when the loroi started loosing and taking heavy casualties, the mating restrictions were relaxed and for certain castes (aka service branches), like the soroin and tenoin redshirts, lifted in certain regions but not everywhere.

Voitan
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by Voitan »

The thirst for blue space elf romcom is strong.

Any chance of just going the Light Novel route Arioch? Then use the sales money for an artist to do the comic, or rely on the LN sales to concentrate fully on a comic version. Interest in an animated series could spring from the LN alone.

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orion1836
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by orion1836 »

Voitan wrote:The thirst for blue space elf romcom is strong.

Any chance of just going the Light Novel route Arioch? Then use the sales money for an artist to do the comic, or rely on the LN sales to concentrate fully on a comic version. Interest in an animated series could spring from the LN alone.
Do you want another Monster Musume? Because that's how you get another Monster Musume.

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CrimsonFALKE
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Re: A Call to... - Page 127

Post by CrimsonFALKE »

Siber wrote:
CrimsonFALKE wrote: Well given Beryl's xenophilia wouldn't be safe to assume her romantic interests could be based on something different?
Last time this came up I was able to turn up the text of the xenophilia disadvantage as defined in GURPS. I can't find it again, but from memory it was along the lines of you have to pass a willpower test or assume that anyone exotic to you wants to talk to you extensively about their exoticness, contrary to any evidence. It means you talk the ear off anyone new, not automatically that you want to bone all the aliens.

Of course, the sheets shouldn't be treated perfect representations of their character, but I think this still bears mentioning.
True but what I meant was that she develops feelings on a different path than what a normal Loroi relationship would be. I think that maybe with her xenophilia and the intamcy they have clearly begun developing something could happen.

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Re: A Call to... {Spoilers} - Page 127

Post by SVlad »

Vyrnie wrote:
entity2636 wrote: Because they don't want to tip the Loroi off they have the ability to evade farseers just yet. Everytime they commit a group of farseer-invisible Umiak they have to wipe out *all* Loroi engaged - every single one - or intelligence of the new Umiak development would make it back to Loroi command. Protecting intelligence by way of killing everyone that sees it is a valid strategy in this universe because intelligence only travels at the speed of ships - not light. We know that this has worked in multiple engagements so far because they passed through multiple farseer checkpoints and still got an ambush off, so not a single ship from earlier farseer systems made it over to the next one.
Shouldn't Loroi detect their farseer outpost just vanish in this case ?
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by GeoModder »

As far as I understand the Farseer ability, they don't have to be explitedly at the frontline(s), so I wonder why the talk about 'Farseer outposts' comes up here.
I reckon the checkpoints Beryl was talking about are just regular patrols in the systems beyond Rallis, on which the Umiak somehow got the jump on.

A question about location detection by Farseers: Does a Farseer on a given location only detect the direction of a given alien group of signatures, and needs to trianguate in cooperation with Farseers stationed in other star systems to determine distance, or can a single Farseer detect both direction and distance of such a group of alien signatures.
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by inxsi »

So for the next bit of cultural sharing, will Beryl explain about skin to skin and other touching and Alex discuss the human superstition of jinxing it?

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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

To follow what GeoModder said, it is also my understanding that farseers are located at the place where the information needs to be to make a decision. Strike groups may have farseers onboard in order to give them up-to-date intel on where enemy fleets are, and farseers may be back at base in order to send fleets out. It doesn't do any good to have them on the border, because even though they can detect things at light years away, whoever they're telling about it needs to be in the same place they are.

Farseers, not farshouters.

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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by SVlad »

Anyway, shouldn't Loroi farseers, wherever they are, detect the vanish of regular loroi at outposts?
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by dragoongfa »

Depends if the outposts are automated or not. Having personnel creates a whole range of issues, ranging from regular supply runs, to personnel rotation, to having to have warships posted to keep said personnel safe if not from the enemy then from themselves as knowing that there is no backup for you coming in case of trouble creates an other whole range of personnel issues.

Having an automated outpost that holds and sends FTL drone ships to carry a message is the best counter from having to spend a lot more resources for having manned outposts that essentially are the same thing. With an automated system in place there will be two issues to be addressed, maintenance and electronic warfare. Maintaining an automated network is relatively straightforward and could be done with a couple of ships that would check on each outpost every month or so but countering electronic warfare is not so easy.

If someone knows how to hack the systems then the whole network is useless. I think that this is where Beryl's comment about the outposts comes in play. The outlying outposts in the unlikely avenues of attack are all automated and rely on FTL drone ships and light speed burst transmissions after each jump to send a message. If such a network becomes infiltrated then the Loroi suddenly become half blind in any potential attacks through such a point of approach. For someone without Farseers this would be a huge liability but the Loroi do have Farseers who would have detected an assault force taking the long way around anyway.

EDIT: Thinking about it, I think that this is a hint that the Historians have helped the Umiak, if the outposts are automated then they are the only ones with the know how to hack them without triggering an alarm.
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by Chekist_Felix »

SVlad wrote:Anyway, shouldn't Loroi farseers, wherever they are, detect the vanish of regular loroi at outposts?
Outpost probably wasn't numerous enough in personnel to be detectable by farseer.
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Re: A Call to... Arms - Page 127

Post by dragoongfa »

Chekist_Felix wrote:
SVlad wrote:Anyway, shouldn't Loroi farseers, wherever they are, detect the vanish of regular loroi at outposts?
Outpost probably wasn't numerous enough in personnel to be detectable by farseer.
IIRC word of God is that if there is a single mind in a whole star system then farseers are sensitive enough to detect it.

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