Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

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icekatze
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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

The Umiak almost certainly don't know what the Loroi have in their reserves. It would make sense to create confusion about their attack. If they were confident they could steamroll the entire Loroi fleet head on, they probably wouldn't have gone to all the trouble, and would just mass their forces and not care if the Loroi knew they were coming.

If the Loroi start fighting a 4 division fleet and send out the word that there's a 4 division fleet, then the reserves don't get called into action, and any other reinforcements that get called in will be expecting a fight with 4 divisions. Imagine their surprise when they arrive and find 16 divisions instead.

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by novius »

If nothing else, this page has shown me that the Umiak bring crushing forces to the war. Desperate or not, losing possibly half of their ships in a risky maneuver and still having six divisions left over (in addition to what already arrived) tells very much that they do have lots of hardware and personnel to burn.

With the Loroi farseeing ability neutralized and the Umiak showing the disturbing capability to pop up in unexpected places, there doesn't seem to be anything anymore preventing them to steamroll the Loroi Union anymore.

Perhaps Clearbrook came to about the same conclusion and decided to bring news back to the inner systems at all cost - this intel making out of Leido - and fast! - could be much more valuable than anything or anyone Highland-7 has on board. Well, sucks to be you, Highland-7, we'll have a toast to your honors in the next bar.

So... yes. Looks like Highland-7 is hung out to dry. They could try to hide in the asteroid belt and power down to the barest minimum. But the chance of timely rescue would be minimal at best. Or Alex would pull off a Caser Ryback and try to commandeer an Umiak vessel when they show up to investigate.

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icekatze
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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

As much as this is an "Et tu Clearbrook," moment, I'm not sure it is strategically the wrong choice, given what they know and don't know right now. I mean, the Loroi at those stationary depots are probably already being left behind, or getting ready to go out in a blaze of glory when they get hit by the overwhelming numbers. They need to spread the word about the Umiak invasion. And they are in imminent danger of being intercepted and destroyed by the deep jump divisions.

Even if the Clearbrook jumps right now, the deep jump divisions might still be able to deep jump again and get ahead of them in the Gora system. If there's no courier already ready to relay the message further down the line, the warning might be cut off.

Also, possibly a sign of the Loroi's low morale.

novius
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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by novius »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

As much as this is an "Et tu Clearbrook," moment, I'm not sure it is strategically the wrong choice, given what they know and don't know right now.
My point saying. Didn't even take into account that their deep jump puts them into position for deep jumping into the next system, too. So yes, getting word out that the Umiak are on the move - quickly! - is of paramount importance. And since Highland-7 or SG-51 never related their importance of their 'cargo' (as far as we know, but plausible from opsec considerations), Clearbrook is much more leaning to write off a shuttle with only a few Loroi on board.
Also, possibly a sign of the Loroi's low morale.
This, and Beryl's reaction on being faced with things which should simply not be true - getting rather agitated - is very much telling.

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by entity2636 »

icekatze wrote:the deep jump divisions might still be able to deep jump again and get ahead of them in the Gora system.
novius wrote:Didn't even take into account that their deep jump puts them into position for deep jumping into the next system, too.
Guys, it doesn't. According to Arioch's Hyperspace Laws, if you jump out of a system while too close to the star (short of the optimal jump corridor), you will either jump short in the target system, skip the target system ( :!: ) or get pulled back into normal space and possibly sucked into the star. You have to jump out from beyond the optimal jump corridor, or travel at a higher than optimal speed in order to deep-jump into the target system.
novius wrote:This, and Beryl's reaction on being faced with things which should simply not be true - getting rather agitated - is very much telling.
Nah, it's just Beryl being Beryl. Young, rather childish, emotional, eager and extremely curious. She's agitated because she doesn't agree with the Admiral's decision to send her to Seren - she's gonna miss all the fun. She was wrong, the fun's about to catch up with her.

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by silentstormpt »

Unless they actually now have the ability to control jumps to a degree that double jumps or/and deep jumps are "safe enough", so rather then being invisible, they are simply doing "out of range" jumps (unless i missed out something important on the comic).

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by icekatze »

hi hi
entity2636 wrote:Guys, it doesn't.
The depth of a hyperspace jump is a function of starting position and velocity.
The deeper your jump starts in the departure gravity well, the shallower the exit point is likely to be (Fig. V). Greater starting velocity will also cause the vessel to exit deeper into the destination well.
- from Insider, emphasis mine.

The Umiak deep jump divisions don't even need to jump from where they are right now. They can burn towards the optimal jump trajectory for probably an hour or two after the Clearbrook jumps and still potentially intercept it with a deep jump. (I don't know what type of star Gora is, so I can't make any more accurate estimates.)

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by entity2636 »

icekatze wrote:hi hi
entity2636 wrote:Guys, it doesn't.
The depth of a hyperspace jump is a function of starting position and velocity.
You're right, forgot about that :roll:

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orion1836
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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by orion1836 »

Here's a depressing thought... what if Alex and company get rolled up by the Umiak?

Never thought the situation would take that vector, but it's worth considering.

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by novius »

icekatze wrote:(I don't know what type of star Gora is, so I can't make any more accurate estimates.)
The Umiak already showed a distressing disregard towards people and material. They must have started with twelve(!) divisions if Talon's estimate is correct and they lost half of their strike group during that stunt. So I would readily believe that they may dispatch three or four divisions to head towards Gora, expecting to arrive with two or three. And still having two left roaming in the inner parts of Leido, enough to roll over stray vessels like courier ships.

If they do this, Clearbrook is pretty much in trouble, too. The Umiak would definitely overtake the Clearbrook on its way to Gora, leaving the ship pinned between a rock and a hard place.

Perhaps we now learn the real meaning of the title "Outsider" - a small group of individuals pretty much stranded in a hostile universe, cut off from any support.

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icekatze
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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by icekatze »

hi hi
orion1836 wrote:... what if Alex and company get rolled up by the Umiak?
I think at this point, it quite likely. I would actually be surprised if they found a clean way to get out of this jam.

Ever since I first started reading Outsider, I've been trying to imagine how Alex might get himself into a situation where Fireblade gets a chance to practice her trade for real. Pushing him around in the lift is a parlor trick compared to what she's capable of. In my estimation, it's more a question of how it goes down, rather than if it goes down.

Do they get stranded in the open and captured by a small fleet, only to have Fireblade bust them out of the brig when the ship they're on starts trying to ferry them back to Umiak friendly space? Do they play hide and seek in the asteroid belt while the Highland Seven's fuel reserves inch toward empty, and get boarded by a lone gunboat that they have a chance of fending off? Does Alex convince them to turn around, use a clever ruse, and board one of their ships instead of the other way around?

Or maybe it is just a tease, and they'll fly off into interstellar space, only to be picked up by Moonglow or whoever. And Fireblade won't get her chance to show off until later. Who knows?
novius wrote:Perhaps we now learn the real meaning of the title "Outsider" - a small group of individuals pretty much stranded in a hostile universe, cut off from any support.
Perhaps the Loroi will launch their counter attack and both sides will wipe each other out, leaving humanity to pick up the pieces. :P

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by Krulle »

Well, the Highland 7 with Alex on board may be an asset. But may also be considerd by the Loroi as a dangerous honey trap, because of Alex.
The moment the Umiak start steamrolling with farseer invisible divisions, an allegedly "neutral" new race appears on exact that battlefront at exact that time?

It may even have been on purpose to send the Clearbrook away, to not compromise that ship in this situation.
Or this may be considered an additional bonus effects by the ones issueing commands in Leido crossroads.
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

Jayngfet
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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by Jayngfet »

icekatze wrote:Perhaps the Loroi will launch their counter attack and both sides will wipe each other out, leaving humanity to pick up the pieces. :P
From a human perspective this is the ideal situation. America became a global superpower in WWII because it had been actively developing it's technology like all other nations, but most of the remainder were totally destroyed by the war. If the war largley misses earth and it's colonies and they somehow have time(that is: multiple years) to develop weapons before any kind of active fighting involves actual human military(and thus the Freeman cruisers can come online and be refined) they can essentially become the new power and at least play on an even playing field, if not dominate within a few additional years of that.

Obviously of course this is counter to Alex's motivations. He wants first and foremost to establish diplomatic ties and get involved, because the idea of having a five to ten year span isn't actually realistic and his opinions on picking a side now don't matter because he has one option left and a job to do. Even if he didn't, there's five other crews on the same mission he has no way of contacting.

There are ultimately no good answers, but that is a politically proven solution to work towards.

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by man_of_foul_tofu »

Jim Frances has a note in the extra's (Outsider Insider section) saying that he plans to get to the end of Chapter 2 with this mix of art/3D modelling etc., and then review progress to see if he continues in the current pathway or changes narrative style. Mind you, I could not find that statement and got distracted looking at the GURPS character sheet descriptions of Tempest. She talks in her sleep? Telepathically?!

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Siber
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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by Siber »

The idea of breaking away from the comic format at the end of chapter 2 was, if I recall correctly, proposed at a time when the update was at a low(I made a graph because that's just what I do). Personally, I'd love to see the comic continue to be a comic if the current update rate can be maintained.

edit: Replaced the graph with one that has fewer errors.
Last edited by Siber on Wed May 09, 2018 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by Arioch »

I don't have any "plans" to change the format; I merely said that I wouldn't consider changing it before the end of chapter 2, in the worst case scenario. There is reason at present to be optimistic about the prospects for a productive 2018.

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by Zarya »

Siber wrote:The idea of breaking away from the comic format at the end of chapter 2 was, if I recall correctly, proposed at a time when the update was at a low(I made a graph because that's just what I do). Personally, I'd love to see the comic continue to be a comic if the current update rate can be maintained.
That graph is trending in the right direction ;)
Also, the story is getting up to speed with our highly sympathetic protagonists almost marooned in a bug infested system...

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by entity2636 »

Arioch wrote:I don't have any "plans" to change the format; I merely said that I wouldn't consider changing it before the end of chapter 2, in the worst case scenario. There is reason at present to be optimistic about the prospects for a productive 2018.
So glad to hear that :) Keep 'em new pages coming, can't wait to see what happens next.

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by orion1836 »

Arioch wrote:I don't have any "plans" to change the format; I merely said that I wouldn't consider changing it before the end of chapter 2, in the worst case scenario. There is reason at present to be optimistic about the prospects for a productive 2018.
If we ever got weekly updates on a regular basis, I would be on cloud nine.

You know, if there is any non-creative grunt work that can be distributed out to the fans to improve the speed of updates, I'm sure some of us would be willing to help. I think I remember you saying that the 3D modelling was one of the biggest time-sinks. Would it be possible to crowd source some of that without affecting quality?

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Re: Page 130: Gotta Go Fast

Post by Arioch »

orion1836 wrote:You know, if there is any non-creative grunt work that can be distributed out to the fans to improve the speed of updates, I'm sure some of us would be willing to help. I think I remember you saying that the 3D modelling was one of the biggest time-sinks. Would it be possible to crowd source some of that without affecting quality?
Not really. The 3D sets take a lot of work, but the design element can't easily be removed from the 3D building part. It would probably take more time and effort describing exactly what I want to someone else than just building it myself.

The only task that could reasonably be farmed out to someone else is flatting (filling in the linework with flat colors prior to shading). That would require me to be a) several pages ahead, and b) more organized than I currently am. It's a possible option for the future, but more of a "stay ahead" option rather than a "get ahead" option. And I would insist on paying a fair wage for that kind of work; it's very tedious.

I have the situation pretty well in hand at the moment.

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