Page 134: For Science!

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dragoongfa
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by dragoongfa »

boldilocks wrote:
Arioch wrote:(Not that there's anything wrong with exploring sexual relationships in fiction.)
Yeah, just extremely tacky most of the time.
Must be because humans cannot not think about sex. The primary directive of all life is to reproduce, animals just get in heat at set times of the year and they are fine; we humans are a little more... maniacal about it.

Scynix
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Scynix »

Arioch wrote:I'd like to echo the sentiment that sexual relationships are not the only kind of relationships worth exploring in fiction. (Not that there's anything wrong with exploring sexual relationships in fiction.)
I cannot possibly emphasize in words how happy I am to see you say that.
Now even if nothing happens I can root for Alex and co to become best friends. WOO!
Except that mean redhead. MEAN.

@Arioch iunno if you'll answer because I can see how it might be a spoiler issue (as such it's of course fine if you can't) but speaking lore wise is there a difference between telekinetic and telepathic use? It was mentioned earlier in the story that redhead's people specifically develop their telekinetic skills. It doesn't seem like a coincidence the strong telekinetic that thwacked him around is the one Alex sensed.
dragoongfa wrote:Must be because humans cannot not think about sex. The primary directive of all life is to reproduce, animals just get in heat at set times of the year and they are fine; we humans are a little more... maniacal about it.
Recently this has been proven to mostly be a myth, but the misconception is still being spread.
The US joined the seriously declining national birth rates problem as of last year, and it's not because we aren't capable of it- it's simply that it isn't as high on the biological needs list as it used to be. When you make physical relationships (and reproduction by extension) arbitrary, people seek out alternate forms of biological satisfaction.

This is also why character relationships that build over time usually have a much better emotional pay off for the reader. People want connections with the characters. If we wanted arbitrary sexual encounters, Master Google provides an overabundance of that.
It's also why so many writers use the cliche fallback of arbitrarily killing off one of the 'bonded' characters, since it gives the perception of being a 'shocking development'. Except everyone does it, so... not so much.

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dragoongfa
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by dragoongfa »

Scynix wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:Must be because humans cannot not think about sex. The primary directive of all life is to reproduce, animals just get in heat at set times of the year and they are fine; we humans are a little more... maniacal about it.
Recently this has been proven to mostly be a myth, but the misconception is still being spread.
The US joined the seriously declining national birth rates problem as of last year, and it's not because we aren't capable of it- it's simply that it isn't as high on the biological needs list as it used to be. When you make physical relationships (and reproduction by extension) arbitrary, people seek out alternate forms of biological satisfaction.
Low birthrates doesn't equal lack of sexual activity, with modern contraceptives and the easy availability of abortions sex has never been more casual and carefree in our history as a species. It can be argued that certain people don't get any sex at all due to a variety of reasons but the general population is currently oversexed, either through having sex with their partners or by using the easily available alternatives.

Sex is no longer about reproduction but the instincts are still there, they are extremely powerful and they only get satisfied with sex or a sex like activity.

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Highlord »

We do have very long lasting legends, suppositions, and even official studies into psychic activity, after all.

My guess is that humans aren't entirely psi-blind. Just very non-sensitive, to the point that "regular" loroi can neither contact or sense us. Psionic battering rams like Fireblade, though, are powerful enough that a humans untried and very limited senses can pick them up.

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Arioch
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Arioch »

Scynix wrote:iunno if you'll answer because I can see how it might be a spoiler issue (as such it's of course fine if you can't) but speaking lore wise is there a difference between telekinetic and telepathic use? It was mentioned earlier in the story that redhead's people specifically develop their telekinetic skills. It doesn't seem like a coincidence the strong telekinetic that thwacked him around is the one Alex sensed.
Yes, telepathy and telekinesis are related but distinctly different. All Loroi are telepathic to some degree, but only a few are telekinetic (most of whom are Teidar or Mizol).

More on these subjects:
Telepathy
Psychokinesis
Telepanty

novius
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by novius »

Highlord wrote:We do have very long lasting legends, suppositions, and even official studies into psychic activity, after all.

My guess is that humans aren't entirely psi-blind. Just very non-sensitive, to the point that "regular" loroi can neither contact or sense us. Psionic battering rams like Fireblade, though, are powerful enough that a humans untried and very limited senses can pick them up.
Telekinesis isn't the only thing that sets her apart.
  • She is the strongest of the lot, by far
  • She is the one instrumental in trying to mind-probe him, from the very start
  • Or maybe something not listed and so far never seen
Of course Beryl would be highly curious about the 'why', but I'm sure she won't like to have to include other Loroi in a test series. After all, she already displayed some degree of possessiveness and a smattering of jealousy...

In addition, I usually don't like the 'soulmate' trope, because it is often used as a cheap excuse to bypass the early stages of a relationship, simply saying "we belong together, so there" - if that doesn't sound 'creepy stalker', what would? But... being linked (read: chained) to that person he'd dislike most - and where the feeling is most probably mutual - could make for an interesting dynamics.

Still... no. That would be too cruel to poor Beryl for her to find out that he's meant for someone else :D

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by fredgiblet »

boldilocks wrote:
novius wrote: Fireblade is a bit of an enigma. She is portrayed as the 'lone wolf', and made her disdain towards Alex and the overall situation quite clear. Currently, the feeling is quite mutual (as evidenced with his charming moniker for her) and both seem to be satisfied to not to see each other more than absolutely necessary. She's the one he's most likely to strike sparks with, especially since the inexplicable ability he has to sense her might bring them onto collision course.
Does she have disdain for him, though? That seems like mostly conjecture based on Alex' likely biased interpretation of events.
It's important to note that so far Fireblade has largely been responsible for keeping Alex from fucking up. In that capacity she can't be friendly or tender towards him. Simultaneously there's strong, albeit circumstantial, evidence that Fireblade isn't widely popular, so she probably behaves like that to everyone.

Might be that Alex is the person to crack her shell.

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by fredgiblet »

novius wrote:Well, it starts in the elevator. Beryl did play with him the "good elf, bad elf" (Alex's words) spiel, but she still couldn't resist to showcase her little trick. And not in a gentle manner.
I believe that at one point Arioch explained the purpose(s) behind that.

Fireblade doesn't want to catch Alex for obvious reasons.
Fireblade CAN get out of his way.
BUT
Using her abilities shows him that she's not to be trifled with.

Remember that Alex wasn't exactly respectful when she came to him in his cell that first time. She NEEDS him to know that she can fuck him up, so that he doesn't make her actually DO it.
Scynix wrote:The US joined the seriously declining national birth rates problem as of last year, and it's not because we aren't capable of it- it's simply that it isn't as high on the biological needs list as it used to be. When you make physical relationships (and reproduction by extension) arbitrary, people seek out alternate forms of biological satisfaction.
A low birthrate doesn't provide evidence against a desire for sex, it just means that raising children is an undesirable risk/expense in the modern world. People are still fuckin'

Well, most people at least.
Arioch wrote:(most of whom are Teidar or Mizol).
Besides the obvious, lack of control and/or power, is there anything else that would prevent a telekinetic loroi from joining those castes?

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Arioch
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Arioch »

fredgiblet wrote:Besides the obvious, lack of control and/or power, is there anything else that would prevent a telekinetic loroi from joining those castes?
Failing to meet other requirements of the caste, including not being female or not being the daughter of warrior.

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Scynix »

fredgiblet wrote: A low birthrate doesn't provide evidence against a desire for sex, it just means that raising children is an undesirable risk/expense in the modern world. People are still (intercourse)
It actually very specifically does. Percentage wise all forms of prevention are a drop in the bucket compared to the normal birth rate we've seen for the last 30 years internationally.
I already PM'ed dragoongfa about this subject since I feel like it doesn't belong in this thread, but you seem to be a moderator as well? So I feel like I have to answer now?
I deeply apologize to everyone else for the conversation deviation. It wasn't my intention.

I'm not basing my comment about birth rates on something so crass, either.
There are a number of studies that have been conducted that indicate people are simply -doing it less- over all.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Is+the+decline+in+ ... ing+sex%3F

And I mean *a number*. It's not just in the US, either. In Japan it seems to be connected to an increase in the desire for a stable career. In China it's due to an organized effort of population control, actively discouraging relations. In the US it seems to be a number of societal issues.
Unfortunately, the collective opinion seems to be "too much tinder/too many casual sex relationships" have dulled that desire. Personally, I wonder if that's also contributing to the rise in drug use as people seek a new form of escapism.

No matter what you may try to blame (condoms, abortions, 'desire to raise children in the modern world') these individual factors are simply too small of a percentage to have the impact that we're seeing globally.

People are just plain 'doing it less'. Doing it less == less people are born. There wasn't a sudden gigantic spike in protection usage, as nice as that would be to help protect people.

Edit: Don't misunderstand please, I'm not saying either of you are 'wrong'. In your own ways, you're still right- there are plenty of humans still that way. I'm just saying there's significantly more now that aren't, and romance between two characters can be more than just 'netflix&chill'. It can be real emotional bonding and does not require a physical component.

And to link this conversation back to my original comments:

This is entirely why, at least for me, I find stories that are about emotional bonds far more interesting.
When characters have more reason to like each other than "hey, you're a girl and I'm a guy" it leads to far more interesting developments.
I'm just hoping (our) English speaking writers/designers recognize this and start writing more stories like this.

It's part of the reason I'm super happy (and sadly super impatiently awaiting more chapters!) that Arioch said he agrees there are more relationships to explore than just sexual ones.

Crossing my fingers Beryl realizes there's something going on, goes totally psychic-yandere and pushes the redhead into a cargo cabinet then seals it before she taints Alex and ruins the cute pairing/Beryl's chances of experimenting with sansai on humans.
Arioch wrote: Yes, telepathy and telekinesis are related but distinctly different. All Loroi are telepathic to some degree, but only a few are telekinetic (most of whom are Teidar or Mizol).
Now I can't help but think humans have some latent, deep rooted 'sense' for telekinetic interactions. Or, the lack of interaction with species who had such abilities naturally 'dulled'/'created a psychic wall in' human minds. I'm very curious if Beryl could eventually push through given time/effort.

On the positive side should Alex decide to share that he could sense redhead (I wouldn't... who knows how they'd react?) this could indicate that eventually the Loroi will recognize humans aren't deliberately trying to block them.

I also get the impression Beryl seems to believe Alex's words now, without requiring any further probing. She doesn't seem to doubt him at all.

TL;D
Social science has indicated recently there is a rise in emotional/romantic bonds that have nothing to do with physical interaction.
Alex and Beryl make cute friends and I want to see more emotional development in their relationship.
Redhead is a meany. Beryl, strike first!
Arioch/Outsider is awesome and I can't wait for more.

Carry on.

Edit: Ugh... I feel like I wrote way too much... someone feel free to tell me in a pm if I did, and I'll delete it.

novius
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by novius »

fredgiblet wrote:It's important to note that so far Fireblade has largely been responsible for keeping Alex from fucking up. In that capacity she can't be friendly or tender towards him. Simultaneously there's strong, albeit circumstantial, evidence that Fireblade isn't widely popular, so she probably behaves like that to everyone.
Still I think that for just showing him that she isn't as defenseless as she seemed to be that was a bit over the top.

First, Beryl did lay down the law and Alex did send a clear "message understood". Second, to convey to him that she has telekinetic abilities it would have been enough to simply arrest his movement (and maybe keep him suspended in the air - that would be quite the show of her abilities!) rather than shoving him back with enough force for bruising or maybe even cracking his skull.

Short of beating someone into submission, casual shows of violence would make people with some front line experiences even more stubborn and uncooperative. And, as we had seen now, it did little to ingratiate herself to him. After all, he had enough time to stew in his cell over it, too.

In addition, I think the lift stopping wasn't a coincidence in itself. It looks very much likely to me that she herself arrested the lift's movement just the moment when Alex was already struggling to maintain balance.

So yes, I do think that while that may be in her line of duty, she definitely let her personal feelings color her judgement.

Though, on the other hand, there is that one panel with a closeup of her face where she does actually seem to care about his wellbeing.

But... that was a single moment. After that, she was back to her abrasive self.
fredgiblet wrote: Might be that Alex is the person to crack her shell.
Not going to happen anytime soon, I think, unless there is something momentuous to happen. As I mentioned in another posting, perhaps in conjunction with his 'sixth sense' connected to her.

But for now, it's "I don't like you, and you hate my guts, so let's leave it at that".

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by fredgiblet »

novius wrote:Second, to convey to him that she has telekinetic abilities it would have been enough to simply arrest his movement (and maybe keep him suspended in the air - that would be quite the show of her abilities!) rather than shoving him back with enough force for bruising or maybe even cracking his skull.
You're assuming she has that level of finesse. I don't recall Arioch ever giving specifics, but I believe that Fireblade is not on the high-tier of finesse with her abilities.

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by novius »

Scynix wrote:Crossing my fingers Beryl realizes there's something going on, goes totally psychic-yandere and pushes the redhead into a cargo cabinet then seals it before she taints Alex and ruins the cute pairing/Beryl's chances of experimenting with sansai on humans.
Well, she almost went out of line over Alex and Talon 'just' holding hands. But that would be a sight to see... :D
Scynix wrote:Now I can't help but think humans have some latent, deep rooted 'sense' for telekinetic interactions. Or, the lack of interaction with species who had such abilities naturally 'dulled'/'created a psychic wall in' human minds. I'm very curious if Beryl could eventually push through given time/effort.

On the positive side should Alex decide to share that he could sense redhead (I wouldn't... who knows how they'd react?) this could indicate that eventually the Loroi will recognize humans aren't deliberately trying to block them.

I also get the impression Beryl seems to believe Alex's words now, without requiring any further probing. She doesn't seem to doubt him at all.
I think that Beryl pretty much believed that Alex himself is truthful as far as he knows it. After all, he had no firsthand experience with telepathy or any psychic powers before coming across the Loroi. She tried to make him secod-guess on what he could have taken for granted just before.

As for that "read-haired harpy" - I'm sure neither he and she would be thrilled by the idea to include her in further experiments. Beryl might suggest it because of scientific curiosity, if she would get past that bit of jealousy she already displayed.

On the other hand, Beryl might come to the conclusion that given enough effort, a Loroi could break through/bypass a Human's defenses, and she might be quite eager to try for more sessions...
Last edited by novius on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

novius
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by novius »

fredgiblet wrote:
novius wrote:Second, to convey to him that she has telekinetic abilities it would have been enough to simply arrest his movement (and maybe keep him suspended in the air - that would be quite the show of her abilities!) rather than shoving him back with enough force for bruising or maybe even cracking his skull.
You're assuming she has that level of finesse. I don't recall Arioch ever giving specifics, but I believe that Fireblade is not on the high-tier of finesse with her abilities.
She might not be able to put a thread through a needle's ear, but one should assume that she has a rough measure over the force she wishes to apply. Okay. So lifting him up and keeping him level might be outside her level of control, but the difference between 'slight shove' and 'fling him into orbit' would be not.

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by boldilocks »

dragoongfa wrote:Sex is no longer about reproduction [...]
Image
"Sex has changed"

entity2636
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by entity2636 »

Scynix wrote:Crossing my fingers Beryl realizes there's something going on, goes totally psychic-yandere and pushes the redhead into a cargo cabinet then seals it before she taints Alex and ruins the cute pairing/Beryl's chances of experimenting with sansai on humans.

***

Redhead is a meany. Beryl, strike first!
LOL Now I'm not sure if you're serious or BS'ing (probably the second), but should Beryl ever do or say something to anger Fireblade, they'd have to hose what's left of Beryl off the deck.

The next is non-canon, but I'd say it fits so well in the setting that it might as well be canon. The Listels (like Beryl) say that Teidar don't normally speak aloud, but when they do, they do it to challenge the Listel and it always results in the Listel being a smear on the floor.

That and a science officer/sensor operator should know better not to piss off a marine major who's the chief of security.

Voitan
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Voitan »

Oh there's a torpedo launching alright.

boldilocks
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by boldilocks »

Scynix wrote:Redhead is a meany. Beryl, strike first!
Strike first! Strike hard! Treat Alex very well.

novius
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by novius »

Voitan wrote:Oh there's a torpedo launching alright.
boldilocks wrote:
Scynix wrote:Redhead is a meany. Beryl, strike first!
Strike first! Strike hard! Treat Alex very well.
Beryl: "Oh, we have about.... *scribble, scribble, calculate* ... 680 solons left before impact. You wouldn't let me die without ever ... well..."

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by raistlin34 »

novius wrote:
Voitan wrote:Oh there's a torpedo launching alright.
boldilocks wrote:
Scynix wrote:Redhead is a meany. Beryl, strike first!
Strike first! Strike hard! Treat Alex very well.
Beryl: "Oh, we have about.... *scribble, scribble, calculate* ... 680 solons left before impact. You wouldn't let me die without ever ... well..."
Beryl has children, so she is not a virgin.

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