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Page 134: For Science! 
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
You all and this 'redhead' business. She has a name, you know... F-I-R-E-B-L-A-D-E.

Or we could just call her Harpy McHarpyface from now on. :D


Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:12 pm
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Scynix wrote:
The implication, at least to me, is that Beryl's caste are the inquisitive type but that doesn't explain her reaction to the pilot shaking his hand. As you say, that stung of simple jealousy. I think Beryl wanted to be the one to test it and that's why despite the circumstances she still requested the chance. It bothered her.
Which is cute, too! Go Beryl! For SCIENCE!
<Team Beryl!>


Not just her caste. Herself, too. She's scarily intelligent, has an eidetic memory and an eye for details. For example she picked up on the inconsistencies of english spelling just from the few examples Alex has on his overall. She is eager to learn and fond of puzzles, and Alex presents the biggest one to her - himself. Might be she is already developing feelings for him - curiosity makes a good part of attraction, after all - but at the moment her jealousy is mostly the dismay a kid would feel when a sibling came to play with the favourite toy.

Scynix wrote:
I do have to question her getting THAT close to him after the hand thing didn't work. It's a bit of a leap to go from "is it ok to touch hands?" to straight up hugging/pressing your forehead against someone.
She demonstrated a level of forethought about respecting another species interactions (which is good!) but seeing as Alex only acknowledged handshakes, this was one heck of a jump forward from handshaking.
Good for you Beryl!
Curious kills cats but you're a space elf! Keep investigating!


To me it looks much to me that skin-to-skin contact is the one big barrier which would border intimacy. As in, this would be the threshold where two Loroi do have to consent on (or can only be passed under dire circumstances), but beyond that there are little to no further thresholds to pass. I think I've read somewhere that Loroi do have a rather matter-of-fact approach to sex, for example, so I'd guess they'd rate the mental contact a touch provides much higher on the level of intimacy then sex itself. The latter one is just a function of the body and endorphins, but the former one is a deep melding of one self to one another.

That would definitely add to the harsh reaction Beryl displayed on seeing him and Talon, for sure. And, Alex simply might not have been aware of the extent on what he agreed to.

Scynix wrote:

I agree, I think redhead would obliterate Beryl in combat- but Beryl has advantages, too! Alex seemingly trusts her. Redhead has only, at this point, actively demonstrated her ability to fling Alex around like a doll. Not particularly endearing.
I wasn't saying Beryl should fight redhead- just keep getting ahead of her in terms of friendship/trust.


Geeks don't get angry. They get even. :geek:

Scynix wrote:
I agree with the others that I think redhead has become at least temporarily Alex's bodyguard. And I also agree that she was probably only hostile in the elevator as a demonstration of her ability and maybe even a test to see if terrans can react/are affected by the telekinetic ability.


I think it was on boarding the Highland-7 where Beryl explicitely states that Fireblade is deployed as his bodyguard. Alex was obviously less than thrilled about it. And my bet is on Fireblade being rather hacked off, either. For her it must feel like a demotion from being chief of security on SG51's flagship down to bodyguard/nanny for a pink alien of dubious origin.

Yep. I bet on that she doesn't like her assignment one bit and would want to have as little to do with Alex as possible, and if they cross paths, she won't be above making her displeasure known to him.

Scynix wrote:
After that incident, Redhead has been very forward about her duty.
Didn't redhead even plop down next to Alex just like Beryl when there was CLEARLY space for her to sit away from him if she really had a problem with him?
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider072.html
Yep! This is what my best friend would call "being crafty"! Sneaky redhead.
I enjoy Alex's look of "ehhh?". :D


I'd interpret that look much more as *gulp* - she's slightly taller than him, lean, but with a definite muscle tonus (as much as the armor can tell) and has a scary ability to do him serious bodily harm without even touching him. Then he's within her arm's reach. Her whole posture tells of her displeasure and raising a barrier facing him. And she's giving him a look saying much like "Don't try anything funny.", coupled with the slight frown.

Much in contrast to Beryl's posture. She very much looks as if she'd like to start her experiments with skin-to-skin contact even that early on. Hmh - maybe Fireblade's look was partly aimed at her, too :)

Scynix wrote:
It seems like the Loroi don't understand sarcasm. Anyone else notice that? Especially Beryl. Byproduct of sansai possibly?


They see speech as a method to conceal/distort the truth and doing so as a dishonorable thing to do. So yes, the concept of telling the opposite and only having posture, expressions and tone of voice convey that something has to be taken the other way round than the literal words say might be completely alien to them.


Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:23 pm
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Scynix wrote:
Didn't redhead even plop down next to Alex just like Beryl when there was CLEARLY space for her to sit away from him if she really had a problem with him?
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider072.html
Yep! This is what my best friend would call "being crafty"! Sneaky redhead.
I enjoy Alex's look of "ehhh?". :D


I would point out that this is also very possibly an artistic choice to put the three of them right next to each other for the purposes of framing, rather than to imply any specific meaning for the characters.


Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:55 pm
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Arioch is quite talented at conveying emotion and depth in his characters' facial expressions, so I find it funny that some of us have such different opinions on what Fireblade's expressions seem to indicate. Some of us (including me) see her as concerned and interested - as well as annoyed at times - while others seem to see her as seething with disdain, if not anger/hatred at him! It's going to be great when it all sorts out...

I also have to agree that it seems strange, given what has come to light about the Loroi, both on these forums and the Insider pages, that Beryl has jumped to such an intimate posture with Alex - and that they're pretty much in the middle of the flight deck, with others in the area - telepathically and physically. I hope the little couple bubble they've made gets burst soon, else the credibility of the scene might start to suffer.

CJSF


Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:30 pm
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
cacambo43 wrote:
Arioch is quite talented at conveying emotion and depth in his characters' facial expressions, so I find it funny that some of us have such different opinions on what Fireblade's expressions seem to indicate. Some of us (including me) see her as concerned and interested - as well as annoyed at times - while others seem to see her as seething with disdain, if not anger/hatred at him! It's going to be great when it all sorts out...

I also have to agree that it seems strange, given what has come to light about the Loroi, both on these forums and the Insider pages, that Beryl has jumped to such an intimate posture with Alex - and that they're pretty much in the middle of the flight deck, with others in the area - telepathically and physically. I hope the little couple bubble they've made gets burst soon, else the credibility of the scene might start to suffer.

CJSF


Well... Talon and Spiral were (and are now more than ever) occupied with piloting the shuttle, so Alex and Beryl were pretty much left to their own devices. But yes, something has to happen, and soon. Likely that they will have to buckle up in preparation for some tight turns, or Alex will get a firsthand experience of Loroi spacesuits or emergency measures...

And Fireblade? I said it myself, she is difficult to read. Though apart from that one moment where they had to make a quick egress from Tempest's bridge, she did show him nothing but derision and disdain. Maybe not outright hatred, but that kind of look you'd usually reserve for something disgusting you scrape off your boot.

Could be that part of her derision is aimed at Beryl, too. As in, Fireblade simply can't fathom why that slip of a girl Listel Tozet is so ga-ga over him.

There's something else in addition. If one looks closer at Fireblade's posture in his mind's eye, she still seems pretty much relaxed. Though... she sits sort of sideways to him in relation to Alex himself, but it looks like she already turned her head in his direction. Maybe she did notice something odd, already?


Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:29 pm
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
fredgiblet wrote:
Scynix wrote:
Didn't redhead even plop down next to Alex just like Beryl when there was CLEARLY space for her to sit away from him if she really had a problem with him?
http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider072.html
Yep! This is what my best friend would call "being crafty"! Sneaky redhead.
I enjoy Alex's look of "ehhh?". :D


I would point out that this is also very possibly an artistic choice to put the three of them right next to each other for the purposes of framing, rather than to imply any specific meaning for the characters.


Also, she might have sat down close to him as part of a standard security protocol, in order to ensure a swift vulcan death grip in the case of any foul play.


Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:08 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
novius wrote:
And Fireblade? I said it myself, she is difficult to read. Though apart from that one moment where they had to make a quick egress from Tempest's bridge, she did show him nothing but derision and disdain. Maybe not outright hatred, but that kind of look you'd usually reserve for something disgusting you scrape off your boot.


I think you just said it yourself - Fireblade's not at all difficult to read, it's all confidence about her superiority, arrogance and clear disdain and contempt toward Alex. Not anger or hatred, but the look you give to someone or something utterly unworthy and particularly disgusting. By the way, she does give the same expression of contempt toward Beryl aswell, for example, on http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider108.html, when Beryl's explaining on who the Teidar are.

I'd say she's so full of herself that she's incapable of any other expressions or emotions.

novius wrote:
There's something else in addition. If one looks closer at Fireblade's posture in his mind's eye, she still seems pretty much relaxed. Though... she sits sort of sideways to him in relation to Alex himself, but it looks like she already turned her head in his direction. Maybe she did notice something odd, already?


Now that you mentioned it, perhaps, but hard to be certain, since it's just the outline. Maybe Alex's waking up to the torpedo warning just saved him from a mental stab or psi punch in the face


Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:30 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
entity2636 wrote:
novius wrote:
There's something else in addition. If one looks closer at Fireblade's posture in his mind's eye, she still seems pretty much relaxed. Though... she sits sort of sideways to him in relation to Alex himself, but it looks like she already turned her head in his direction. Maybe she did notice something odd, already?


Now that you mentioned it, perhaps, but hard to be certain, since it's just the outline. Maybe Alex's waking up to the torpedo warning just saved him from a mental stab or psi punch in the face


The hair is most telling. It's fanning out on both sides of her face. Were she looking sideways, one would see the long hair flaring out behind the back of her head.

Interesting though, the seating of the passenger section is facing to the front, yet she is sitting sort of sideways towards his field of view, only with her head turned - either directly facing him or completely away from him. That would mean his 'mind's eye' perspective would be somewhere to the shuttle's port side rather than his current position in the cockpit, unless Fireblade did get up and move around in the meantime.

Could be that it means something or it was just an artistic means to emphasize the fact that he somehow garnered her attention.


Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:33 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
novius wrote:
There's something else in addition. If one looks closer at Fireblade's posture in his mind's eye, she still seems pretty much relaxed. Though... she sits sort of sideways to him in relation to Alex himself, but it looks like she already turned her head in his direction. Maybe she did notice something odd, already?


Alex' first reaction to Fireblades mental presence:

http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider018.html

"There was something out there in the darkness."

"It had been fluttering there in the distance for I don't
know how long, like an afterimage of something very bright.
But now it was moving closer and for some reason I was
terrified of it."

"It seemed as if I could feel it's presence, as if it were some
fiery monster. Was I hallucinating? My mind filled with a wild,
unreasoning fear. I wanted desperately to get away from it,
but I couldn't move."

"I pressed in on me, it's terrible closeness burning like a furnace."

-> Alex sees Fireblade basically as a "fiery monster" ;)


Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:45 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Whoa, Fireblade could use some PR & reputation management :D

http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider091.html
My interpretation of her on this page, while escorting Alex off the bridge of the Tempest, is that she’s already acting as his bodyguard. Stillstorm might have had him thrown out of an airlock..


Last edited by Zarya on Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:17 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Speaking of Fireblade, would it not be interesting if it is SHE who are the Outsider rather then Alex (or maybe they both are). In any case there is SOMETHING about her that a bit odd. Maybe we are totally wrong to believe her to be a powerful Teidar but she may be something way more then that but just does not know it.


Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:06 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Sweforce wrote:
Speaking of Fireblade, would it not be interesting if it is SHE who are the Outsider rather then Alex (or maybe they both are). In any case there is SOMETHING about her that a bit odd. Maybe we are totally wrong to believe her to be a powerful Teidar but she may be something way more then that but just does not know it.


A "Secret Soia"?


Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:00 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Sweforce wrote:
Speaking of Fireblade, would it not be interesting if it is SHE who are the Outsider rather then Alex (or maybe they both are). In any case there is SOMETHING about her that a bit odd. Maybe we are totally wrong to believe her to be a powerful Teidar but she may be something way more then that but just does not know it.


That would be quite the plot twist. And imagine Alex's position as the only one who figures this out (maybe with Beryl's help), while being at the mercy of his "bodyguard".


Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:51 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
raistlin34 wrote:
Sweforce wrote:
Speaking of Fireblade, would it not be interesting if it is SHE who are the Outsider rather then Alex (or maybe they both are). In any case there is SOMETHING about her that a bit odd. Maybe we are totally wrong to believe her to be a powerful Teidar but she may be something way more then that but just does not know it.


That would be quite the plot twist. And imagine Alex's position as the only one who figures this out (maybe with Beryl's help), while being at the mercy of his "bodyguard".


Or, there's an even worse thought: Who put up the idea that this storyline is just the imagination of an oxygen-starved, dying brain?

...And that light at the end of the tunnel would be her. :mrgreen:


Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:21 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Sweforce wrote:
Speaking of Fireblade, would it not be interesting if it is SHE who are the Outsider rather then Alex (or maybe they both are).


Fireblade, Beryl, Talon and Alex all have clear claims on the title for different reasons.


Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:54 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
novius wrote:
Or, there's an even worse thought: Who put up the idea that this storyline is just the imagination of an oxygen-starved, dying brain?

...And that light at the end of the tunnel would be her. :mrgreen:

That would be me, and I apologized to Arioch for that, since I meant Alex' brain being oxygen starved and producing the imaginations... (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider016.html)
(it could be interpreted as Arioch's brain being oxygen starved)

_________________
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123


Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:37 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
hi hi

Arioch wrote:
You can place each letter separately, or if you just want to displace them vertically, you can use the super/subscript setting in the character pane. In this case it alternates between 1, 0, and -1.
That's surprisingly simple. I guess part of it is optical illusion based on the angle of the text, but at a casual glance, it looked like they were slightly offset left and right. Thanks. :)

Scynix wrote:
They imply they've optimized their society for war, which would mean reproduction and child rearing would be completely different than what we experience.
The insider page on Loroi Warrior Rites of Passage has some interesting information regarding this.


Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:29 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
fredgiblet wrote:
Sweforce wrote:
Speaking of Fireblade, would it not be interesting if it is SHE who are the Outsider rather then Alex (or maybe they both are).


Fireblade, Beryl, Talon and Alex all have clear claims on the title for different reasons.


Tempo as well. With being her in the spook business and everyone knowing it just because of her caste designation I'm pretty sure she'd find real friends and colleagues hard to come boy.


Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:32 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Krulle wrote:
novius wrote:
Or, there's an even worse thought: Who put up the idea that this storyline is just the imagination of an oxygen-starved, dying brain?

...And that light at the end of the tunnel would be her. :mrgreen:

That would be me, and I apologized to Arioch for that, since I meant Alex' brain being oxygen starved and producing the imaginations... (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider016.html)
(it could be interpreted as Arioch's brain being oxygen starved)


And that's how I read it, too - Alex's brain being slowly starving of oxygen, the neurons firing one last time out of hypoxic stress. But the universe would be too cruel if it's that "red-headed harpy" who would wait for Alex in the Beyond :)

And not that "pleasant science elf"


Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:35 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
There's a heap of things I'd like to respond to when I have time, but at the moment this one really leaped out to me.

icekatze wrote:
The insider page on Loroi Warrior Rites of Passage has some interesting information regarding this.

I hadn't read this page.
I can't imagine Alex considering this social construct being 'good'. Even though we struggle to accept societal differences, one thing that has remained for humans is that... well simply put, we're meddlesome. If we don't think something is right, we meddle.

I'm sure Alex is smart enough not to comment when such a subject of society comes up, but I can't imagine Terran's liking this society.
They're already wary of the Loroi's refusal to allow neutral races (which is understandable to a degree when you're in such a state of war) but it seems Terran's are gonna have to work hard to make sure only diplomats interact with the Loroi. :d


Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:49 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Scynix wrote:
There's a heap of things I'd like to respond to when I have time, but at the moment this one really leaped out to me.

icekatze wrote:
The insider page on Loroi Warrior Rites of Passage has some interesting information regarding this.

I hadn't read this page.
I can't imagine Alex considering this social construct being 'good'. Even though we struggle to accept societal differences, one thing that has remained for humans is that... well simply put, we're meddlesome. If we don't think something is right, we meddle.

I'm sure Alex is smart enough not to comment when such a subject of society comes up, but I can't imagine Terran's liking this society.
They're already wary of the Loroi's refusal to allow neutral races (which is understandable to a degree when you're in such a state of war) but it seems Terran's are gonna have to work hard to make sure only diplomats interact with the Loroi. :d


The end of the first paragraph *does* say that general civilians live very different lives than what's explained there, though. So I guess it depends on whom they interact with.

CJSF


Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:58 am
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
novius wrote:
Krulle wrote:
novius wrote:
Or, there's an even worse thought: Who put up the idea that this storyline is just the imagination of an oxygen-starved, dying brain?

...And that light at the end of the tunnel would be her. :mrgreen:

That would be me, and I apologized to Arioch for that, since I meant Alex' brain being oxygen starved and producing the imaginations... (http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider016.html)
(it could be interpreted as Arioch's brain being oxygen starved)


And that's how I read it, too - Alex's brain being slowly starving of oxygen, the neurons firing one last time out of hypoxic stress. But the universe would be too cruel if it's that "red-headed harpy" who would wait for Alex in the Beyond :)

And not that "pleasant science elf"
I'm pretty sure Arioch also understood it that way, and complained in jest (here)but this being a written medium, having no visible emotional cues, I prefer to apologize before I hurt someones feeling permanently.

_________________
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123


Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:44 pm
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
Scynix wrote:
I can't imagine Alex considering this social construct being 'good'.


And if he's smart he won't consider that remotely relevant.

The goal isn't to pick the side of the saints, it's to pick the best side for humans to ally with. Playing the sort of purity politics game that is being pushed in society today just invites disaster.


Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
fredgiblet wrote:
Sweforce wrote:
Speaking of Fireblade, would it not be interesting if it is SHE who are the Outsider rather then Alex (or maybe they both are).


Fireblade, Beryl, Talon and Alex all have clear claims on the title for different reasons.


Valid. It makes the title all the more fitting. That said, I vaguely recall something about Jardin being referred to as an alien by way of their use of the word in question. Either way, it is apt.

fredgiblet wrote:
Scynix wrote:
I can't imagine Alex considering this social construct being 'good'.


And if he's smart he won't consider that remotely relevant.

The goal isn't to pick the side of the saints, it's to pick the best side for humans to ally with. Playing the sort of purity politics game that is being pushed in society today just invites disaster.


I imagine that, just as in Human society, that there are Loroi who are dirtbags, or xenophobes, or those who think they know better than everybody else and that their way is the best way. Thankfully for all of us, this story has thus far focused on individuals that, if not extraordinary in their own right, are nonetheless above average, who have had an extraordinary set of circumstances foisted upon them.


Last edited by Corpsman_of_Krieg on Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:49 pm
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Post Re: Page 134: For Science!
fredgiblet wrote:
Scynix wrote:
I can't imagine Alex considering this social construct being 'good'.


And if he's smart he won't consider that remotely relevant.

The goal isn't to pick the side of the saints, it's to pick the best side for humans to ally with. Playing the sort of purity politics game that is being pushed in society today just invites disaster.


The original mission of the Bellarmine was to make contact and open the lines of communication, sort of. Especially Alex's mission briefing surely wouldn't have included spending an extended amount of time around Loroi.

He's in a position many anthropologists would happily murder for - immersed into an alien culture, seeing the 'natives' first hand and up close.

I'd guess that maybe the TCA prepared Alex for such an eventuality - and, much like with an anthropologist it has been hammered into him never to judge an alien culture. Even if he would find out that Loroi would eat their children failing some rite of passage, the extent on what he would be allowed to say is "Well... it works for you, but perhaps you might be better off not mentioning that around other humans?"

After all, there were moments where he actually displayed restraint rather than running off at the mouth.


Last edited by novius on Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:54 pm
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