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Insider page: Barsam 
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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Well, if Humanity at some point becomes a Union member, and with the Barsam probably convinced Humanity is the Loroi template species, it could certainly increase their attempts to change the status of the Nibiren. :D

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Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:38 pm
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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Just how big of a difference is there between the niberen and barsam? Just how solitary are the niberen and how intelligent?

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Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:06 am
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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
hi hi

It does seem a little strange, now that I think about it, that the Barsam believe they originated outside the local bubble, but their supposed template species exists inside the local bubble. I wonder how that is reconciled in their own philosophy.

Also, I remember the Barsam Captain going "Tch" when Tempo was first explaining things to Alex. Is that a sound that the Loroi wouldn't make, given that it isn't in their version of trade?


Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:00 am
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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Solitary species, eh? Tough for a technological society. One wonders just how they evolved higher intelligence (they don't live in a 3D environment like dolphins or apes, are not social so they would not have to know advanced behavioral traits, and are herbivores, so no need to outsmart prey).


Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Jericho wrote:
Just how big of a difference is there between the niberen and barsam? Just how solitary are the niberen and how intelligent?

Most Nibiren are under 6' tall, while most Barsam are over 7'. Nibiren are intelligent enough to make and use primitive tools, and have basic language skills (gesture+vocalizations). They are traditionally solitary like bears or orangutans, living with their juvenile offspring, occasionally interacting with other Nibiren at the boundaries between their territories to trade and to mate. The Barsam have taught some Nibiren to farm and created small Nibiren villages, but the adults have some trouble getting along with each other in close quarters, and so most prefer to stay on their own parcels.

Mr.Tucker wrote:
Solitary species, eh? Tough for a technological society. One wonders just how they evolved higher intelligence (they don't live in a 3D environment like dolphins or apes, are not social so they would not have to know advanced behavioral traits, and are herbivores, so no need to outsmart prey).

They're not herbivores, they're tool-using omnivorous hunter-gatherers. They share a common ancestor with the less-intelligent Diidadi, which are smaller, faster, with longer tails and less skill with tools, and which live on the open plains and deal with the larger predators primarily by running away. The Nibiren dealt with the predators by moving off the plains into the foothills and building shelters, but in doing so they had to spread out and establish territories to avoid exhausting local food supplies (whereas the Diidadi are nomadic and move in groups to new locations to find more food, like elephants). Presumably, their common ancestor was more social.

icekatze wrote:
It does seem a little strange, now that I think about it, that the Barsam believe they originated outside the local bubble, but their supposed template species exists inside the local bubble. I wonder how that is reconciled in their own philosophy.

That is, the source of the biology (and/or technology) from which they were derived came from outside the local bubble.

icekatze wrote:
Also, I remember the Barsam Captain going "Tch" when Tempo was first explaining things to Alex. Is that a sound that the Loroi wouldn't make, given that it isn't in their version of trade?

Loroi can make the same sounds that humans can make, and so she might make a noise like that, but it would be unlikely unless she picked it up from spending time around Barsam.

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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Do Barsam ships/shipclasses usually have names related to their religion?
At least, cpt. Mozin's Prophet class courier has a name derived from it.

How deep permeates the Barsam church into their society? Do economic entities who seem profit-driven like the Agumo Conference and Shuvo Industries also actively promote the teachings of the Barsam Church or is that left to the employees according to their religious beliefs? Cpt. Mozin did seem to have strong feeling on the matter back on page 65.

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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
GeoModder wrote:
Do Barsam ships/shipclasses usually have names related to their religion?
At least, cpt. Mozin's Prophet class courier has a name derived from it.

Not all, but many do. Kind of like European (and especially Spanish) ships in the age of sail, the majority of which had pious names like Santa Maria, La Trinidad, or Cinco Llagas.

GeoModder wrote:
How deep permeates the Barsam church into their society? Do economic entities who seem profit-driven like the Agumo Conference and Shuvo Industries also actively promote the teachings of the Barsam Church or is that left to the employees according to their religious beliefs? Cpt. Mozin did seem to have strong feeling on the matter back on page 65.

It goes deeply in the sense that you won't have to ask a Barsam captain or high-ranking corporate executive whether he is religious, any more than you would need to ask the captain of a Spanish galleon in 1688 whether he was a practicing Christian; he wouldn't have the position if he wasn't. However, promotion of religious values is the job of the church and not private enterprise. There is a baseline assumption that everyone will comport themselves in a pious and proper manner; but a trader who doesn't believe in profit or a mercenary who isn't willing to use force won't keep his job for very long. So it comes down to the situation and the people involved.

While the Barsam church does promote charity, it has no prohibition against profit.

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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Yeah, the parallel with European Renaissance practices did come to mind when composing those questions.
Thanks for the answers.

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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
How does Agumo the Armis ring stabilized?
"The Ringworld is unstable!" :D

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Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:11 am
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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
SVlad wrote:
How does Agumo the Armis ring stabilized?
"The Ringworld is unstable!" :D

It uses magnetic coils spaced around the ring which push against the planet's magnetic field.

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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Arioch wrote:
It uses magnetic coils spaced around the ring which push against the planet's magnetic field.


What happens if the planet's magnetic field reverses?


Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:24 am
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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Gorbash wrote:
What happens if the planet's magnetic field reverses?


The coils are connected with gyro stabilizers. :geek:

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Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:46 am
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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
OK, if the Agumo is held in stable "orbit" by a magnetic field, how is this field powered? I.e., this is an active system, where does it get it's power, what power source could last for 500k years without refueling and maintenance? That alone must be some quite amazing piece of tech that should be of a lot of interest to the Barsam and pretty much everybody else.

*addition* and I do wonder how the Barsam and pretty much everyone else didn't f*ck it up when they discovered and started studying it?


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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
entity2636 wrote:
OK, if the Agumo is held in stable "orbit" by a magnetic field, how is this field powered? I.e., this is an active system, where does it get it's power, what power source could last for 500k years without refueling and maintenance? That alone must be some quite amazing piece of tech that should be of a lot of interest to the Barsam and pretty much everybody else.

*addition* and I do wonder how the Barsam and pretty much everyone else didn't f*ck it up when they discovered and started studying it?

Solar power.

Geostationary orbits are pretty stable; it wouldn't require much power at all to correct for minor invariances. Even if only 10% of the power/coil units are still operating, that's plenty to do the job. And I'm not sure what the Barsam could do to screw it up; even if they somehow disabled all of the power units, the ring would stay in a stable orbit for thousands of years.

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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Somehow I don't quite buy it. Even if the ring is in a geostationary orbit, it will be a very unstable system because it encircles the whole planet and gravity and centrifugal forces work on the ring from all sides. Even the slightest uncompensated change in position would be transferred onto the opposing point of the ring and the effect will double in strength. What I mean is, if something acts on one point of the ring resulting in this point getting closer to the planet (say, a meteor impact or the gravitational pull of a passing asteroid, or gravitational resonance with another planet in the system, or whatever, even the natural unevenness of the planet's gravity due to surface features or irregularities of internal composition, you get the point), there will be a point diametrically opposite this point that will be forced farther from the planet. The gravitational pull on the closer point gets stronger and weaker on the opposite point. This effect will pretty much instantly "run away" and the ring will collapse without constant control and adjustment which solar powered ion engines as RCS thrusters probably can't manage.

You said there are some space elevators connecting the Agumo to the planet's surface... If there are more than one of them, their shafts/masts could be seen as working as additional anchors to keep the ring station in place, if it weren't for plate tectonics... Is Armis geologically active?


Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:54 pm
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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Satellites on orbit are stable because they are almost point masses. But even push from docking ship would be enough to start fall ring from orbit. And it would take months, not years.
I've found a short but got explanation.

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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
entity2636 wrote:
Somehow I don't quite buy it. Even if the ring is in a geostationary orbit, it will be a very unstable system because it encircles the whole planet and gravity and centrifugal forces work on the ring from all sides. Even the slightest uncompensated change in position would be transferred onto the opposing point of the ring and the effect will double in strength. What I mean is, if something acts on one point of the ring resulting in this point getting closer to the planet (say, a meteor impact or the gravitational pull of a passing asteroid, or gravitational resonance with another planet in the system, or whatever, even the natural unevenness of the planet's gravity due to surface features or irregularities of internal composition, you get the point), there will be a point diametrically opposite this point that will be forced farther from the planet. The gravitational pull on the closer point gets stronger and weaker on the opposite point. This effect will pretty much instantly "run away" and the ring will collapse without constant control and adjustment which solar powered ion engines as RCS thrusters probably can't manage.

You said there are some space elevators connecting the Agumo to the planet's surface... If there are more than one of them, their shafts/masts could be seen as working as additional anchors to keep the ring station in place, if it weren't for plate tectonics... Is Armis geologically active?


It may have a stationary component, containing the endpoints of the elevators and solar collection arrays, and a mobile part, that spins at above orbital velocity inside the structure itself. Seems like a pretty standard orbital ring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMbI6sk-62E&t=16s
If at orbital velocity, the ringworld isn't unstable if in movement. Rather, it is impossible to build due to needing materials that are unreasonably strong.


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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Mr.Tucker wrote:
It may have a stationary component, containing the endpoints of the elevators and solar collection arrays, and a mobile part, that spins at above orbital velocity inside the structure itself. Seems like a pretty standard orbital ring.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMbI6sk-62E&t=16s

Always upvote Isaac Arthur. 8-)
An Orbital Ring is a Dynamic Structure; it needs stabilisation. This can be by thrusters and reaction wheels (that's how we stabilise our satellites). Alternatively, since the ring is connected to the ground by a number of tethers, they can provide passive stabilisation. The more the better, and it's best to offset them to either side.
Tethers from Geostationary orbit to the ground are our of our capability atm (IOTL), but if you can build a 100km thick tube 250k km long then constructing 35k km long tethers probably aren't a big deal. The tethers and anchor points (both on land and on the ring) may be constructed to cope with shifting plates over time; taking the Australian Plate as an example, in a million years it'll have moved about 50km which isn't much considering the length of the tethers.


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Post Re: Insider page: Barsam
Reading about how the Barsam gain greater size at the cost of higher oxygen requirement got me to think about how dinosaurs and birds have hollow bones to make them lighter and to allow for more efficient intake of oxygen. Do the barsam have a similar advantage?

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Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:46 am
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