Homeworld 3 Announced

[Krulle]

The human cruiser just turned too slowly, if I recall correctly.

I imagine that most of the ships were capable if you practiced enough.

I carried a few of the Chmmr Avatars for when I just wanted to power through an opponent. They were pretty deadly, but would take a bit of damage in most fights. Whereas if I wanted to take the time, a Spathi Eluder could defeat most enemies while taking little or no damage in return.

The Earthling Cruiser was actually astonishingly fast for it's design in rotating.
But it had an horrible acceleration, and a slow top speed.

Best use was pointing the launcher towards the enemy (and hope he took the cue to stay away), and fire the torpedo the other direction so it would traverse the other way around the map.

It was decent vs. the Kzer-Za, but horrible against the Kohr-Ah.


The Avatar (Chmmr) were indeed an element to allow the player to get things done in Ur-Quan space, which they didn't dare before, or to get to the end game, if they were not that good in the fights.
Horribly inefficient ressource wise (manpower), but it could defeat all.

Since my first contact with StarControl were the melee fights in school (first SC1, later SC2), I was rather proficient with most ships before I got my hands on my own copy and could christen the BumpingTool.
So I wasn't afraid of selling everything and invest in cargo bays thrusters, and the turning modules.
And mine Ilwrath space, sicne my Fwiffo was proficient in dancing infront of the Avenger, and use the B.U.T.T.s (Backwards Utilized Tracking Torpedo) slightly sent to the side, so they would curve around the Avenger when the Avenger uncloaked to try to shoot down the Torpedo (which the Torpedo took as a cue to turn around, and ultimately get behind the flames and hit the Avenger).
(This exploited the AI trying to shoot down missiles close to it, but the Avenger had a quirk: it could uncloak through two mechanisms, the uncloak button (special weapon key), and it would keep it's angle on screen, or you could uncloak through hitting the fire button, in which case the Avenger automatically aimed itself towards the enemy ship (even if that would mean a turn by 180° much faster than the maximum rotation speed would normally allow. The AI used the latter, which meant the nozzle was NOT aimed at my torpedo, but at me, thus my torpedo could close the gap and go for the kill.)


And yes, I am a total nerd for SC2.

Back then I wrote a FAQ/Solution, which most of my school later used.

I've checked the UQM2 reddit[sup][1][/sup] a few times, but since I don't have an account with reddit, and usually surf private stuff on a padlet, and reddit making it hard for padlets to visit their site, I'll be patiently waiting at the side lines until I can throw my money their way without some kind of intermediate banking services taking a cut of 20%.

[inxsi]

Thanks to this thread, I was inspired to watch a playthrough of Star Control 2 - I was not into PC games at the time. Some of this thread now makes sense at least I don't think I can imagine how much time most players must have spent playing this game originally but it must have been something (probably both amazing and frustrating) - the "complete" (though non-optimized) playthrough with skips on figuring out where to go took probably 9.5 hours.

This is another style of game that I'll wonder why there are not more independent developers doing these days, but that is another discussion.

[Arioch]

The 2018 Star Control: Origins was actually pretty good, despite not having anything to do storywise with the original games (and despite the legal kerfluffle between the original developers and Stardock). The key to SC2's fun was clever and funny writing, and SC:O does a surprisingly good job with that.

I think that adventure-style games have gone out of favor with publishers (and are difficult for independents) because they require a lot of content for a comparatively short play time.

[Bamax]

To sum it all up... it's all about the money.

There is always a golden age of discovery to see how far or good people can make anything... and after the moneymakers start optimizing solely for profit, which actually sometimes means creative control is given partially to people more interested in profits than a really interesting game. That's why games keep adding on content to finished games as DLC's. Easier to get profit than make a brand new gamem

Indie games are where you will still find the spirit of the old games... low on tech and graphics and profits, but still you can find really interesting games.

One of my favorites is Our Personal Space, (the original) by Metasepia Games. Free to download, and excellent replay value.

It's a marriage simulator, with scifi elements that involve colonization of an alien world. You can beat it in 30 min easily, but only with careful play will you discover mysteries, solve problems successfully, and improve rather than destroy relationships.

[Krulle]

Thanks to this thread, I was inspired to watch a playthrough of Star Control 2 - I was not into PC games at the time. Some of this thread now makes sense at least :D I don't think I can imagine how much time most players must have spent playing this game originally but it must have been something (probably both amazing and frustrating) - the "complete" (though non-optimized) playthrough with skips on figuring out where to go took probably 9.5 hours.

This is another style of game that I'll wonder why there are not more independent developers doing these days, but that is another discussion.

Well, welcome!
Now that you've been spoilered, you can give the OS-port a try: The Ur-Quan Masters.
( official site with official release: http://sc2.sourceforge.net/
best compilation with many add-ons already implemented: http://megamod.serosis.net/Releases )


Also, despite the game being successful in ratings and fan memories, financially at the time it wasn't that successful.
(because it got copied a lot, and in Europe there was nearly no advertisement for the game - I only found one supplier, and I doubt that supplier had a legal version himself. I bought copies later, when I found "platin" versions (repackaged, republished versions) - so now I own at least three licensed copies of SC1 and SC2 each, one of the official copies came with the (non-fan-recognised) SC3 I bought used.)

The publisher did ask the developers for a continuation, but only offered the same terms as for SC2, which meant the original creators said "no", because they already spent two "unpaid" months to finish the SC2-game.

Yeah, the game has a large tale behind it.

SpoilerShow

. The publisher wanted to publish it as the "show" version was on delivery date of development. Which included "dummy" text, non-finalised graphics, and other show-stoppers for a successful commercial game. (They had to present something, and hoped to get a few weeks for finishing touches - but the publisher said they want to ship it "now" anyway.)
So the developers "disappeared" for two months instead of handing over the code, refused any contact with the publisher, and finished the game to make it contain the content the code only had as placeholders.

Anyway, if you get around to trying it yourself,
use a notepad and pen, because the game does not maintain a list of "things to do", "interesting info collected", "things already done".

[Cthulhu]

I have fond memories of SC2 as well. Unfortunately, I've lost my CDs from part 1 and 2, and therefore I can't use the OS port.

But Star Control 3 was actually good, too, yet it does not get quite as much recognition. Does anyone know why? I played the hell out of it back then, and it even helped me learn English. It was actually better than school lessons.

[Bamax]

I have fond memories of SC2 as well. Unfortunately, I've lost my CDs from part 1 and 2, and therefore I can't use the OS port.

But Star Control 3 was actually good, too, yet it does not get quite as much recognition. Does anyone know why? I played the hell out of it back then, and it even helped me learn English. It was actually better than school lessons.

Because the Syreen no longer looked... attractive.... at all.

Space ladies have to be beautiful... or else LOL.

I mean I am not saying they have to be hardly dressed like in SC2.

Rather even their faces in SC3 looked old and she lacked her hair as well!

[Cthulhu]

Because the Syreen no longer looked... attractive.... at all.

Space ladies have to be beautiful... or else LOL.

I mean I am not saying they have to be hardly dressed like in SC2.

Rather even their faces in SC3 looked old and she lacked her hair as well!

I've found the SC3 CDs and yes, the Sirens were a bit ugly (but then again, it's DOS-level talking head animation), yet their voices were just as good & sexy, as far as I can remember.

[Arioch]

Using puppets in SC3 was really jarring, especially for the humanoid races. I don't remember anything about the story, which suggests that it probably wasn't very compelling.

[Krulle]

I have fond memories of SC2 as well. Unfortunately, I've lost my CDs from part 1 and 2, and therefore I can't use the OS port.

You can, most of the stuff is now available there as well, the only thing lacking, due to copyright, are the 3DO videos as intro/outro (which the PC lacked anyway).
Even those you can download from the Megamod site.

The OS port does NOT need any files from the original distributions anymore (since version 0.4 or so, and now we're 0.8).
(Actually, the OS port cannot use the original files easily anymore - they converted most of them to more modern formats - except for the .mod tracker files - but the OS has the permission to distribute the original content anyway, so it's only the 3DO videos missing.)


Re. SC3: I remember quite a bit of the story.
But yeah, it wasn't as memorable as the SC2 story.
Although it had its own highlights. (Space Cows, I did like the Daktaklakpak as a malfunctioning robot race, and the hive mind bacteria XChagger. I liked the Lk somewhat having evolved in the stashes of the Precursors-but the rest of their story was meh), but the Doog, Ktang, Owa, Vux/Vyro-Ingo, ... were outright annoying and stupid. And while the Doog were tremendously stupid, they were the only ones with plenty of colonies, and had an uber-ship. - HOW?)
Also, the Melee was far from balanced.
And a lot of ships were missing (my favourites, the Supox, were missing), which annoyed me most, together with the unbalanced Melee.
(and I did try to play against others).

[Ithekro]

I did start a playthrough of SC3 recently, though I didn't get far (maybe 50 days in). I remember from earlier games that I found the K'Tang to be really silly and a good laugh at their expense. he Doog were slow, but well meaning species that can be very useful. The Harika-Yorn were an interesting concept of predator-prey symbiosis. The XChagger, while a little grating to listen to (high pitched voice) where an excellent concept. The Lk were very full of themselves. The Owa a bit too melodramatic. The Vyro-Ingo had potential, but the VUX bit sort of went weird (though the early game VUX were interesting, when they are clearly placating you). The Daktaklakpak were interesting if not annoying early game (and they seem terrifying when you first give them what they really want, until the resolution for that is shown). The Ploxis was a bit much, but could be very one point right now politically speaking. The Exquivan had an interesting ship concept, but they were a bit annoying version of monks. The Clairconctlar could have been more interesting had their possible connection to the Taalo being investigated. I actually wanted to know more about the Herald's species. They looked interesting.

Of the races that come with you (the Supox don't make it, which is unfortunate since they were one of the underdeveloped races from SC2), the Syreen are alright, but their puppet is hideous. The Human puppet isn't much better, but covered by a helmet. The VUX again are great for their placating and subterfuge. (voice acting for the VUX was great) The Mycon are weird, but have probably the best story arc of the older races with their Deep Children arc. Their puppet was lazy. The Chmmr are basically cut out mid-plot to deny you more of their ships. Their CGI puppet was a bit lackluster. Similar with the Ur-Quan (who are genuinely trying to be helpful). Their character model was alright. The Spathi are great as themselves (though their puppet is weird, yet somewhat satisfying) The Utwig, while interesting when not depressed, where done a bit lazy (their SC2 plot recycled with not much progression). The Orz are terrifying, and their voice over works better in SC3 for some reason. The Arilou puppet is disturbing...as are they. The Pkunk puppet is off, but their personality is on point.

While the new flagship having superior tech was nice...the lack of using hyperspace sort of didn't work so good. It also seemed odd to me that if you have only one ship that can travel in space, and you own it, that means everyone back home is stuck without working hyperspace until you can solve the problem (and even than, it will be years before hyperspace travel is possible again)...meaning that once you manage to get enough fuel to jump your expeditionary group home (leaving the new colonies abandoned), you may also have to "help" the now independent Crux races get home. Than help back at home with travel until things stabilize for good.

Judging by the talks so for UQM2 will not go that route, since they are currently asked what they can add to hyperspace.

[Krulle]

Well, they will remain within their own IP.
The copyright for SC3 story, as far as it is not present in SC2/UQM, is owned by Stardock now.

So, FF and PR will stay within SC2/UQM storylines and expand from there.

[Cthulhu]

I also started a SC3 playthrough. Well, suffice to say, it did not age well. The Siren puppet is indeed creepy. On the other hand, the VUX are very good, both the puppet and their voices. The combat system is utterly bonkers, it's either Dogg or bust until I can find my old joystick.

You can, most of the stuff is now available there as well, the only thing lacking, due to copyright, are the 3DO videos as intro/outro (which the PC lacked anyway).
Even those you can download from the Megamod site.

The OS port does NOT need any files from the original distributions anymore (since version 0.4 or so, and now we're 0.8).
(Actually, the OS port cannot use the original files easily anymore - they converted most of them to more modern formats - except for the .mod tracker files - but the OS has the permission to distribute the original content anyway, so it's only the 3DO videos missing.)

Thanks, I'll try that next.

[malletmann]

I know it's been a while since we've updated, but they've dropped a First Look Gameplay trailer:

[SVlad]

Uhm...
Looks like they returned to designs, they were planing for Homeworld 2 originally.
There was idea to have space structures so big starships can navigate and fight in them. Homeworld 2 didn't manage the gigastructures there was just obstacles.
Also that warp gate looks like from final cinematic of HW2.

[malletmann]

I believe they were limited by the hardware of the time? I wonder if they’ll bring back the Turret Frigate idea.

[icekatze]

hi hi

It looks nice, though what I'm still most interested in is hearing about how the game plays. Those short clips weren't very revealing.

After multiple attempts, I still haven't been able to get past the 3rd mission in Homeworld 2. Was Deserts of Kharak better? Guess since it's $5 on gog right now, I might as well pick it up.

[Gudo]

After multiple attempts, I still haven't been able to get past the 3rd mission in Homeworld 2. Was Deserts of Kharak better? Guess since it's $5 on gog right now, I might as well pick it up.

Never managed to beat HW2 either, but it was more of a story issue for me. HW2 uses adaptive difficulty scaling where the larger your fleet is, the more enemies spawn. You can try to finish mission 2 with as small a fleet as possible, and see if that makes a difference. But IIRC, the scaling doesn't turn on that early.

Deserts of Kharak is OK, but is nothing like the space based HW games. There's also a healthy bit of retcon going on there too. It's worth $5 pickup IMO.

[icekatze]

hi hi

...Deserts of Kharak is OK, but is nothing like the space based HW games. There's also a healthy bit of retcon going on there too. It's worth $5 pickup IMO.

I'm playing through Deserts of Kharak now, and so far my impression is that it's a perfectly decent snack. I can just assume that it's a parallel universe or something with regards to the retcon, and the storytelling is pretty compelling. If they keep up that level of quality, I can only assume that the story in Homeworld 3 will be enjoyable, though I'll probably pick it up on sale too. (Even if, again, I'll have to treat it as a parallel universe.)

The gameplay in Deserts of Kharak certainly isn't terribly difficult yet. The only trick is that they don't telegraph in advance whether the enemy is going to send endless waves or not in any given mission, which changes the strategy one needs to take.

[Arioch]

I like that they turned the mothership on its side, manta-like... it's a nice mix of the familiar and the new.

The other ship designs I'm not crazy about... they look like very angular like was necessary for low-poly ships of old, which is kind of ironic. They're decent, but not lighting me on fire. I hope that whoever the new adversary is has some more radical ship designs.

The overall environment design looks very good, as usual.

Karan S'jet seems to be getting younger despite however many decades are passing... and apparently sh'es been working since the end of Homeworld 2 as a fashion model.