Page 189: GO AWAY!

[Dorfington]

Posthumous holographic projection please.

With hand puppets.

[spacewhale]

Flaming hair spray spouting Fireblade hand puppet?

[CrimsonFALKE]

But the barbarity of the fighting had left its mark on the survivors, and many had to be institutionalized, and in a few extreme cases, euthanized.

How do a telepathic race euthanize one another without issue if they all know what it is coming?

[Arioch]

But the barbarity of the fighting had left its mark on the survivors, and many had to be institutionalized, and in a few extreme cases, euthanized.

How do a telepathic race euthanize one another without issue if they all know what it is coming?

I'm talking about individuals who have been so mentally unbalanced by the war that they either don't respond to psychiatric treatment, or can't be convinced to come in out of the wilds of Seren in the first place. In the first case such individuals are already in a sanitarium or a prison; in the second case, they have to be hunted down. An unenviable duty especially in the latter case, but the Loroi have an advantage here that the Umiak counter-insurgency forces didn't have; they can sense the telepathic signatures of Loroi guerrillas that are out of sight.

Just because you're telepathic doesn't necessarily mean you can read someone else's mind, but in the above cases I don't think it really matters whether they see it coming or not.

[CrimsonFALKE]

But the barbarity of the fighting had left its mark on the survivors, and many had to be institutionalized, and in a few extreme cases, euthanized.

How do a telepathic race euthanize one another without issue if they all know what it is coming?

I'm talking about individuals who have been so mentally unbalanced by the war that they either don't respond to psychiatric treatment, or can't be convinced to come in out of the wilds of Seren in the first place. In the first case such individuals are already in a sanitarium or a prison; in the second case, they have to be hunted down. An unenviable duty especially in the latter case, but the Loroi have an advantage here that the Umiak counter-insurgency forces didn't have; they can sense the telepathic signatures of Loroi guerrillas that are out of sight.

Just because you're telepathic doesn't necessarily mean you can read someone else's mind, but in the above cases I don't think it really matters whether they see it coming or not.

Well if I could tell someone was going to kill me they'd have a real fight on their hands.

[Arioch]

Well if I could tell someone was going to kill me they'd have a real fight on their hands.

If you were dangerously insane and already institutionalized, you were probably already in restraints and/or sedated. If you were dangerously insane and still playing partisan in the hills, there was going to be a fight regardless.

[Sweforce]

On a side tangent, has there been any indication as to "How far" in the future this is taking place from Alex's perspective? I'm willing to guess he might be talking to other Humans, giving a debriefing of what had occurred.

Not sure I understand -- how far in the future "what" is taking place?

Alex narrate the story as it is something in his past. As such he could have done this shortly after his adventure, maybe in an hearing/report back home or maybe memoirs pinned down maybe decades after the event. On the other hand you may have understood that just fine and withhold that information since it may spoil the story.

[CrimsonFALKE]

Well if I could tell someone was going to kill me they'd have a real fight on their hands.

If you were dangerously insane and already institutionalized, you were probably already in restraints and/or sedated. If you were dangerously insane and still playing partisan in the hills, there was going to be a fight regardless.

For a race like the Loroi did the people did the people do the killing feel that death?

[Arioch]

Well if I could tell someone was going to kill me they'd have a real fight on their hands.

If you were dangerously insane and already institutionalized, you were probably already in restraints and/or sedated. If you were dangerously insane and still playing partisan in the hills, there was going to be a fight regardless.

For a race like the Loroi did the people did the people do the killing feel that death?

The implication of your question seems to be that the Loroi are somehow callous for employing euthanasia. I don't really see that they have any alternative in such cases, except performing a lobotomy, which doesn't sound any more humane to me. I don't see that humans would act much differently in a similar situation.

I imagine that individual Loroi would have a similar range of feelings as humans in such a situation, and if that was your job, that would be an unenviable task. But the Loroi as a culture do take duty very seriously. Their ideal is to perform your duty first, and then worry about how you feel about it afterward.

[CrimsonFALKE]

If you were dangerously insane and already institutionalized, you were probably already in restraints and/or sedated. If you were dangerously insane and still playing partisan in the hills, there was going to be a fight regardless.

For a race like the Loroi did the people did the people do the killing feel that death?

The implication of your question seems to be that the Loroi are somehow callous for employing euthanasia. I don't really see that they have any alternative in such cases, except performing a lobotomy, which doesn't sound any more humane to me. I don't see that humans would act much differently in a similar situation.

I imagine that individual Loroi would have a similar range of feelings as humans in such a situation, and if that was your job, that would be an unenviable task. But the Loroi as a culture do take duty very seriously. Their ideal is to perform your duty first, and then worry about how you feel about it afterward.

I am not trying to say they are callous I am just curious how a race so much more able to feel things and say things with themselves would go about killing themselves. In away you would think their telepathy would make them very unified and able to communicate. I guess they aren't above us at all.

[dragoongfa]

I am not trying to say they are callous I am just curious how a race so much more able to feel things and say things with themselves would go about killing themselves. In away you would think their telepathy would make them very unified and able to communicate. I guess they aren't above us at all.

I wouldn't look at it from a empathetic angle but rather a self preservatory one.

Remember that telepathy is also an inherent weapon, all Loroi can mentally attack each other and said mental attacks can be borderline lethal (i.e. a determined and strong enough attacker can render their victim a mental vegetable).

For all intents and purposes the Loroi are unable to confine and treat their criminally insane because said individuals are inherently lethal due to telepathy.

It's tragic, in its own way, that the Loroi are unable to help people who they know are victims of hideous warcrimes because there is no way for them to help them without risking permanent harm to everyone around said victims. They could perhaps relegate them to their allies for treatment but they too are susceptible to telepathy in variying degrees.

It's a catch 22, help those afflicted and have several innocents attacked and killed or end their suffering as quickly and painlessly as possible.

Humans could perhaps offer a 'safe and secure' facility for such inividuals to be interred and treated but that's a long ways away.

[kiwi]

Yes, I had been wondering about that. If we wildly speculate that the Loroi and human mind are quite similar (because that one damned class of Soia Liron bioengineering students decided to whip up quick copies of some existing sentiments and bog off early for the holidays) then humans may indeed have the best mental health information, science and practices for the serious cases.

This may be a bitter pill for the Loroi to swallow. Especially once they run into rock solid changes in approach, e.g. “I’m sorry, Emperor, but that information is confidential. I can’t discuss it without my patient’s permission. Even if you send me to prison.”
Or indeed “of course I kicked the male’s caretakers out of the room”
Or “No, in the human tradition it’s totally inappropriate for us to have that sort of relationship.”

[Arioch]

Loroi have warred against each other all through out their ancient history, and at several points in the not too distant past. Though they are telepathic, they are still individual minds and not some sort of racial gestalt. Loroi feel more or less the same way about killing other Loroi as humans do about killing other humans; some individuals find it unthinkable, while others would not even blink.

When it comes to mental health, the upside of telepathy is that therapists have some very powerful telepathic techniques to aid in treatment of mental disorders. The downside is that if such treatment fails, an incurable telepathic patient cannot be safely confined. Such cases are rare, but they do happen, and there is really only one option left... and it doesn't really matter how people feel about it. What must be done, must be done.

Again, these were rare cases. The vast majority of Seren refugees who survived the occupation were able to be safely rescued, and most with psychological problems were able to be treated... though some still bear mental and physical scars from the ordeal. But the war is not over, and most of the survivors are being kept on Seren for security reasons. The Umiak left some unpleasant parting gifts.

[Werra]

When it comes to mental health, the upside of telepathy is that therapists have some very powerful telepathic techniques to aid in treatment of mental disorders. The downside is that if such treatment fails, an incurable telepathic patient cannot be safely confined. Such cases are rare, but they do happen, and there is really only one option left... and it doesn't really matter how people feel about it. What must be done, must be done.

These cases exist among humans, too. Ok, our cases can't harm us with their thoughts alone, but there are people who can not be trusted to be left unsupervised. Treatment options for them are very often limited to heavy medicamentation. Before our knowledge of drugs became sophisticated enough, straightjackets weren't uncommon. There are still situations for them today. Nobody liked it, yet it had to be done. Whether a society prefers to permanently keep these poor sods in a drug induced vegetative state or keeps the dignity of the inflicted with a quick, permanent fix seems like a cultural preference and not actually a deep divide.

[Jagged]

My feeling is that if you had a telepathic ability that let you experience another individuals pain, you might have an entirely more favourable approach to euthanasia.

Of course in the West our approach is still largely dictated by our Christian past, other countries have entirely different feelings. We have already seen expressions of different Loroi cultures in their approach to food, this may well be another area were Loroi opinions vary widely.