How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

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Onaiom
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How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Onaiom »

Assuming they want to capture the civilian population without damaging the local industry too much.

Sextantis is a planet similar to Earth with three continents about the same size with two near one another and the other one far (almost at the other side of the world), water covers 83% of the world. Gravity is 1.08 of Earth's. Breathable atmosphere. Native life is mostly bacteria and algae. Population consist of 2,217,314,000 habitants.

Theians, humanoid race similar to Quarrens from Star Wars, colonized the planet about 200 years ago and it has become the major trading hub in this sector of their Dominion. Sextantis can be considered near the border (3 or 4 jumps away). Their tech level would be on par with the Loroi Empire from 60 years ago.

Only 5% of the local population serves in the military 110,800,000 soldiers where only 30% of them are combatants, more or less 36,900,000 infantrymen. They are well distributed amongst the population centers and in well-hidden military bases. Dominion Army is well equiped with armorerd vehicles, hovercraft and aircraft. They can fix their equipment with what they have on the planet.

Theians have some degree of resistance against Loroi telepathy. Loroi can sense when they are nearby but cannot get a fix on their exact position. Similar to the Mannadi.

How would this invasion happen? Would the Loroi simply bomb them from orbit or would they deploy their army and wage World War 2 kind of war where they take city-by-city, country by country?
Last edited by Onaiom on Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by StarCruiser »

From my point of view - assuming the Theians can't contest orbital space, the battle's already over.

Resisting from that point only invites destruction. Any reasonably well equipped orbital fleet should be able to select from a variety of attack methods including "crowbars" (simple metal rods) that would be effectively clean tactical nukes - all the way up to high yield nukes.

When you define the local forces as infantry, you have restricted their means of defense to local combat on the surface. This leaves the air and massive oceans open for Loroi forces to control in addition to orbital space.

Arioch can answer, if he wants but, space is the ultimate high ground in any planetary war.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Arioch »

StarCruiser wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:33 pm
From my point of view - assuming the Theians can't contest orbital space, the battle's already over.
Essentially this. To elaborate:

Strategy would be governed by what forces are available, but assuming that the Loroi had availability of any of their forces that they wanted, and assuming that the Loroi desired to take the planet and population as intact as possible, a plan to invade an Earthlike planet might look something like this:
  1. The Loroi fleet must first secure space superiority around the planet, destroying or driving off any defending fleets, spacecraft or military satellites. I infer from your question that this has already happened.
  2. Deploy the fleet around the planet, and make detailed scans of surface installations.
  3. Attempt to secure the peaceful surrender of the defenders, pointing out that resistance is completely futile; it's not really possible to defeat an invasion if space superiority has been lost. If they are able to arrange a meeting in person, the Mizol in attendance will attempt to telepathically coerce the defending emissaries. If no agreement is reached, the Mizol will continue to offer the option of surrender repeating throughout the next phases.
  4. The Loroi fleet will strike any visible military targets from orbit. The initial priority would include command and control, logistics, airbases and anti-air sites, and would then move to troop concentrations and vehicles on the ground. The warships in the fleet can engage ground targets with their laser autocannon, down to the resolution of individual vehicles, and engage hardened targets with AMM-D kinetic missiles or heavier ordnance.
  5. The carriers in the fleet will deploy atmospheric fighters to establish air superiority, and draw out any defending aircraft or anti-air ground sites. These can be engaged by fleet assets or by the fighters themselves.
  6. The Loroi carriers will deploy troops in dropships and armored fighting vehicles to attempt to secure one or more "beachheads," most likely near the largest population centers. These drops will be covered by the fighters and the ships in orbit, to engage any defending fighters or ground sites that appear, and any ground forces that move in the open. It's possible for such defenses to remain hidden, but the moment they begin to fight, they will reveal themselves.
  7. If the beachhead(s) are successful, the Loroi will land reinforcement troops until they have enough to move against strategic objectives, probably including population centers. Any defending troops that sortie to engage them will be struck from orbit and the air; any that remain will be engaged in combat by the Loroi ground forces with continuous air and orbital support and the reconnaissance and intelligence that provides.
  8. After the first engagement, captured defenders will be interrogated by Mizol. Unless they have complete telepathic immunity, the Loroi will probably gain additional advantages in strategic intelligence and psy-ops.
  9. The Loroi will advance in a conventional manner, city by city, and continent by continent, until either they have taken control of all desired locations (leaving occupying garrisons in each one) or the defenders have negotiated terms of surrender. The longer the defenders hold out, the less agreeable the terms will be.
  10. The Loroi would try to avoid collateral damage to population and infrastructure, but only to extent that this would be practical.
The short version is that in any situation without some kind of effective ground defenses against orbital bombardment (like the Rebel's shield generators in Empire Strikes Back, or perhaps some way to blind the enemy in orbit), once space superiority is achieved around a planet, any ground invasion is pro forma. Even if the defenders greatly outnumber the invaders, close air and orbital support will decide the battle. The beams on ships in orbit can track small missile-sized targets at high velocities and great distances; it's comparatively simple to plink tanks from orbit at what for a starship is point-blank-range (and the Loroi laser autocannons are particularly suited to this). This is what I mean when I say that the battle that matters is the space combat over control of the system.

The Loroi have some additional advantages in ground combat with the capabilities of Teidar and Mizol in close quarters combat, but they would not need these advantages to decisively win a ground engagement under the above circumstances. Occupation is another matter, in which telepathic resistance might become an issue... but that's not the question that was asked. :D

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Onaiom »

Arioch wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:10 am
The short version is that in any situation without some kind of effective ground defenses against orbital bombardment (like the Rebel's shield generators in Empire Strikes Back, or perhaps some way to blind the enemy in orbit), once space superiority is achieved around a planet, any ground invasion is pro forma. Even if the defenders greatly outnumber the invaders, close air and orbital support will decide the battle. The beams on ships in orbit can track small missile-sized targets at high velocities and great distances; it's comparatively simple to plink tanks from orbit at what for a starship is point-blank-range (and the Loroi laser autocannons are particularly suited to this). This is what I mean when I say that the battle that matters is the space combat over control of the system.
The Loroi have some additional advantages in ground combat with the capabilities of Teidar and Mizol in close quarters combat, but they would not need these advantages to decisively win a ground engagement under the above circumstances. Occupation is another matter, in which telepathic resistance might become an issue... but that's not the question that was asked. :D
Thanks, those 10 steps was what I was asking. I knew that resistance was futile but I was wondering how the Loroi would defeat the enemy land forces. We already knew how a invasion would happen in Outsider with the Siege of Seren. I just wanted to know how the Loroi would do it.
StarCruiser wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:33 pm
From my point of view - assuming the Theians can't contest orbital space, the battle's already over.
Resisting from that point only invites destruction. Any reasonably well equipped orbital fleet should be able to select from a variety of attack methods including "crowbars" (simple metal rods) that would be effectively clean tactical nukes - all the way up to high yield nukes.
Battle in the space near Sextantis is over by a week or so. Enough time for Loroi admirals to draw a invading plan.
StarCruiser wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:33 pm
When you define the local forces as infantry, you have restricted their means of defense to local combat on the surface. This leaves the air and massive oceans open for Loroi forces to control in addition to orbital space.
When I said that they were well equiped, I meant they had armor, hovercraft and aircraft as powerfull as their tech level would allow.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by dragoongfa »

Arioch wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:10 am
StarCruiser wrote:
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:33 pm
From my point of view - assuming the Theians can't contest orbital space, the battle's already over.
Essentially this. To elaborate:

Strategy would be governed by what forces are available, but assuming that the Loroi had availability of any of their forces that they wanted, and assuming that the Loroi desired to take the planet and population as intact as possible, a plan to invade an Earthlike planet might look something like this:
  1. The Loroi fleet must first secure space superiority around the planet, destroying or driving off any defending fleets, spacecraft or military satellites. I infer from your question that this has already happened.
  2. Deploy the fleet around the planet, and make detailed scans of surface installations.
  3. Attempt to secure the peaceful surrender of the defenders, pointing out that resistance is completely futile; it's not really possible to defeat an invasion if space superiority has been lost. If they are able to arrange a meeting in person, the Mizol in attendance will attempt to telepathically coerce the defending emissaries. If no agreement is reached, the Mizol will continue to offer the option of surrender repeating throughout the next phases.
  4. The Loroi fleet will strike any visible military targets from orbit. The initial priority would include command and control, logistics, airbases and anti-air sites, and would then move to troop concentrations and vehicles on the ground. The warships in the fleet can engage ground targets with their laser autocannon, down to the resolution of individual vehicles, and engage hardened targets with AMM-D kinetic missiles or heavier ordnance.
  5. The carriers in the fleet will deploy atmospheric fighters to establish air superiority, and draw out any defending aircraft or anti-air ground sites. These can be engaged by fleet assets or by the fighters themselves.
  6. The Loroi carriers will deploy troops in dropships and armored fighting vehicles to attempt to secure one or more "beachheads," most likely near the largest population centers. These drops will be covered by the fighters and the ships in orbit, to engage any defending fighters or ground sites that appear, and any ground forces that move in the open. It's possible for such defenses to remain hidden, but the moment they begin to fight, they will reveal themselves.
  7. If the beachhead(s) are successful, the Loroi will land reinforcement troops until they have enough to move against strategic objectives, probably including population centers. Any defending troops that sortie to engage them will be struck from orbit and the air; any that remain will be engaged in combat by the Loroi ground forces with continuous air and orbital support and the reconnaissance and intelligence that provides.
  8. After the first engagement, captured defenders will be interrogated by Mizol. Unless they have complete telepathic immunity, the Loroi will probably gain additional advantages in strategic intelligence and psy-ops.
  9. The Loroi will advance in a conventional manner, city by city, and continent by continent, until either they have taken control of all desired locations (leaving occupying garrisons in each one) or the defenders have negotiated terms of surrender. The longer the defenders hold out, the less agreeable the terms will be.
  10. The Loroi would try to avoid collateral damage to population and infrastructure, but only to extent that this would be practical.
The short version is that in any situation without some kind of effective ground defenses against orbital bombardment (like the Rebel's shield generators in Empire Strikes Back, or perhaps some way to blind the enemy in orbit), once space superiority is achieved around a planet, any ground invasion is pro forma. Even if the defenders greatly outnumber the invaders, close air and orbital support will decide the battle. The beams on ships in orbit can track small missile-sized targets at high velocities and great distances; it's comparatively simple to plink tanks from orbit at what for a starship is point-blank-range (and the Loroi laser autocannons are particularly suited to this). This is what I mean when I say that the battle that matters is the space combat over control of the system.

The Loroi have some additional advantages in ground combat with the capabilities of Teidar and Mizol in close quarters combat, but they would not need these advantages to decisively win a ground engagement under the above circumstances. Occupation is another matter, in which telepathic resistance might become an issue... but that's not the question that was asked. :D
Pretty straightforward; although as an armchair general I would change some things up a little:
  1. As a given, accomplishing space superiority first is a must
  2. Repeated calls for surrender should start the moment orbital supremacy is accomplished, shock and awe maneuvers by the fleet during during its deployment orbit should highlight the fact to the population at large; not just the military and civilian leadership. Full spectrum electronic surveillance in order to identify targets and persons of interest.
  3. The orbital fleet would have to lock down air and maritime traffic hard if applicable. By a declaration that all such traffic is to cease and would be considered military after a set amount of time (taking into account the 'just in time' philosophy of modern goods transportation this would ensure mass civilian arrest in major population centers in a matter of days). After this is accomplished preliminary bombardment of military and military related targets is to commence, priority being any and all active and passive scanners effectively blinding the enemy. All this is accomplished by a combination of orbital bombardment and air-superiority fighters.
  4. Covert deployment of Recon and Force Recon elements led by Teidar and Mizol commandos. Their objective is to secure persons of interest, hands on recon of landing areas and follow on objectives. By far the most critical of intelligence gathering of the invasion happens during this stage. Full orbital support when requested is a given.
  5. Full spectrum electronic suppression is to commence before any major landing operations. All civilian and military communications must be jammed during this stage.
Everything else is more or else covered already.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Jagged »

I wonder what would happen to the modern world if all our satellites were suddenly destroyed?

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Mk_C »

dragoongfa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:31 pm
Repeated calls for surrender should start the moment orbital supremacy is accomplished, shock and awe maneuvers by the fleet during during its deployment orbit should highlight the fact to the population at large; not just the military and civilian leadership. Full spectrum electronic surveillance in order to identify targets and persons of interest.

The orbital fleet would have to lock down air and maritime traffic hard if applicable. By a declaration that all such traffic is to cease and would be considered military after a set amount of time (taking into account the 'just in time' philosophy of modern goods transportation this would ensure mass civilian arrest in major population centers in a matter of days). After this is accomplished preliminary bombardment of military and military related targets is to commence, priority being any and all active and passive scanners effectively blinding the enemy. All this is accomplished by a combination of orbital bombardment and air-superiority fighters.

Covert deployment of Recon and Force Recon elements led by Teidar and Mizol commandos. Their objective is to secure persons of interest, hands on recon of landing areas and follow on objectives. By far the most critical of intelligence gathering of the invasion happens during this stage. Full orbital support when requested is a given.

Full spectrum electronic suppression is to commence before any major landing operations. All civilian and military communications must be jammed during this stage.
This just came through on the internal comms:
A Concerned Soroin Passet wrote: Excuse me, Lashret, but what exactly are we trying to accomplish here? I mean, we are demanding an unconditional surrender from the enemy leadership, while also preventing all the communication between said leadership to discuss, accept and declare said surrender to their forces - the same leadership that our commando teams will also supposedly kidnap, preventing it from acting in it's capacity to fulfil our demands. Overall, it seems like all we're doing only serves to create maximum uncontrollable chaos and destruction through bombardment and communications and logistics breakdown. I understand the importance of our actions seeming inscrutable to the enemy, but this seems inscrutable even to our own strategy. At this point why not just glass the vile things? Aside from it being less badass, of course.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

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Mk_C wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:01 pm
A Concerned Soroin Passet wrote: Excuse me, Lashret, but what exactly are we trying to accomplish here? I mean, we are demanding an unconditional surrender from the enemy leadership, while also preventing all the communication between said leadership to discuss, accept and declare said surrender to their forces - the same leadership that our commando teams will also supposedly kidnap, preventing it from acting in it's capacity to fulfil our demands. Overall, it seems like all we're doing only serves to create maximum uncontrollable chaos and destruction through bombardment and communications and logistics breakdown. I understand the importance of our actions seeming inscrutable to the enemy, but this seems inscrutable even to our own strategy. At this point why not just glass the vile things? Aside from it being less badass, of course.
Comm suppresion is to happen during the main landing operations, everything before that is all about passive and active intelligence gathering and asset acquisition. Scanner suppresion is to destroy any and all means of detecting fleet activity. You want the military blind, panicked and shouting to each other, you want the civilians panicked and shouting for reprieve and you want the leadership panicked, afraid for their personal safety with the reprieve of a surrender offered at every turn.

Once the shooting starts you want everyone blind, deaf, mute and panicking. As uncoordinated and chaotic as possible.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Mk_C »

dragoongfa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:17 pm
Once the shooting starts you want everyone blind, deaf, mute and panicking. As uncoordinated and chaotic as possible.
If you want to obliterate everything, naturally. But that's just a longer and more painful way of glassing the planet - the invasion itself implies that we'd rather have them kneel and open wide so that we could exploit their population, resources and infrastructure, without having to blast the shit out of absolutely everything as it floats down the Pee Pee Creek into hell while on fire. Who will even be there to use the reprieve of a surrender offered at every turn when we've just decapitated and disrupted the whole structure? Everyone who even could surrender in such a situation would be either dead, unaware of the presented opportunity and their own authority to accept the opportunity, or busy screaming and running in horror.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by dragoongfa »

Mk_C wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:25 pm
dragoongfa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:17 pm
Once the shooting starts you want everyone blind, deaf, mute and panicking. As uncoordinated and chaotic as possible.
If you want to obliterate everything, naturally. But that's just a longer and more painful way of glassing the planet - the invasion itself implies that we'd rather have them kneel and open wide so that we could exploit their population, resources and infrastructure, without having to blast the shit out of absolutely everything as it floats down the Pee Pee Creek into hell while on fire. Who will even be there to use the reprieve of a surrender offered at every turn when we've just decapitated and disrupted the whole structure? Everyone who even could surrender in such a situation would be either dead, unaware of the presented opportunity and their own authority to accept the opportunity, or busy screaming and running in horror.
Define obliterate; an uncoordinated opposition is an opposition that will not mount effective resistance and will be unable to maneuver and counter attack effectively. Cut off from communications from above and faced with localized overwhelming force while also getting the out of surrender usually results in said surrender. If said local commander doesn't surrender it's still a local commander unable to mount effective resistance and cause significant damage.

Civilian leadership is also far more likely to surrender if they are cut off from their military.

After a point it becomes a game of cutting things down to manageable pieces. The out of an early total surrender was given when orbital supremacy was established; if the overall leaders didn't surrender at that point they have already exhibited disregard of the well being of the populace at large. Decapitation and addressing the next in line is par of the course. If the leadership keeps refusing to surrender then one has to wonder if they are insane in refuting an obviously superior force or if they are expecting some repreive and are baying for time.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Arioch »

I think it would be very difficult, as a practical matter, to suppress the communications of a TL8+ civilization.

As an invader with space superiority, you might want the enemy communicate as much as possible, to help you locate potential targets, and to encourage them to try to move reinforcements to areas under attack so that they can be destroyed out in the open. From a psy-ops perspective, you may want them to communicate so they can realize just how screwed they really are.
Jagged wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:07 pm
I wonder what would happen to the modern world if all our satellites were suddenly destroyed?
I think most of our communications traffic travels primarily on land lines, but losing comm satellites could create bottlenecks in the system.

As I understand it, mobile phones don't interact much with satellites, using ground-based repeater towers both for communication signal and location information, so they would probably mostly still work.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

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Arioch wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:35 pm
I think it would be very difficult, as a practical matter, to suppress the communications of a TL8+ civilization.
Targeting communication hubs for capture or destruction should bring forth the desired result. I cannot picture a communication technology that won't require some centralized control infrastructure. Personnel capable of identifying and manning said hubs should be in the 'persons of interest' category meant for capture and interrogation.
Jagged wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:07 pm
I wonder what would happen to the modern world if all our satellites were suddenly destroyed?
I think most of our communications traffic travels primarily on land lines, but losing comm satellites could create bottlenecks in the system.

As I understand it, mobile phones don't interact much with satellites, using ground-based repeater towers both for communication signal and location information, so they would probably mostly still work.
A lot of military and government communications are handled exclusively via satellites for countries that can afford them. A dogma that saw its rise due to the immunity of satellite communications systems to sabotage and other standard means of destruction. Anti satellite weaponry has only recently entered the field and it's not planned to be used in anything less than a global conflict due to the collateral damage that the destruction of a large number of comm satellites would cause to the orbital environment.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

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dragoongfa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:07 pm
After a point it becomes a game of cutting things down to manageable pieces. The out of an early total surrender was given when orbital supremacy was established; if the overall leaders didn't surrender at that point they have already exhibited disregard of the well being of the populace at large. Decapitation and addressing the next in line is par of the course. If the leadership keeps refusing to surrender then one has to wonder if they are insane in refuting an obviously superior force or if they are expecting some repreive and are baying for time.
The situation for species that aren't essentially human can look drastically different. The defendants might be incapable or unwilling to surrender without a fight. The biology of the species in question can also mean that surrender equals eventual extinction, such as through evolutionary pressures. Or the species that is being invaded by the Loroi is aware of the abilities of Mizol and views telepathic enslavement of their leadership as worse than death.
Arioch wrote: If they are able to arrange a meeting in person, the Mizol in attendance will attempt to telepathically coerce the defending emissaries.
How would you ever free yourself from Loroi control once they're entrenched in your government and institutions?
dragoongfa wrote:I cannot picture a communication technology that won't require some centralized control infrastructure.
Wouldn't radio work if the groups using it are themselves decentralized?

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by dragoongfa »

Werra wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:59 pm
The situation for species that aren't essentially human can look drastically different. The defendants might be incapable or unwilling to surrender without a fight. The biology of the species in question can also mean that surrender equals eventual extinction, such as through evolutionary pressures. Or the species that is being invaded by the Loroi is aware of the abilities of Mizol and views telepathic enslavement of their leadership as worse than death.
Specialized directives and strategic guidances in terms of species peculiarities should be drawn and in depth briefings given before the conflict itself, or at its initial phases if unable. If one doesn't know how their target thinks and acts well before the planning phases of a planetary assault then someone dropped the ball well in advance.
dragoongfa wrote:I cannot picture a communication technology that won't require some centralized control infrastructure.
Wouldn't radio work if the groups using it are themselves decentralized?
Anyone can hear radio comms unless encrypted and even then they are easily detected, they require some sort of infrastrure for long range communications as well as comms discipline to be of effect in a military campaign.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Mk_C »

dragoongfa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:07 pm
Define obliterate;
Achieve effects similar to indiscriminate orbital bombardment.
dragoongfa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:07 pm
an uncoordinated opposition is an opposition that will not mount effective resistance and will be unable to maneuver and counter attack effectively.
True. It will also be unable to recognize, consider and reasonably react to propositions of surrender. A maximum efficiency disorganization and extermination approach would leave them without any options other than decentralized resistance and death.

dragoongfa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:07 pm
Cut off from communications from above and faced with localized overwhelming force while also getting the out of surrender usually results in said surrender. If said local commander doesn't surrender it's still a local commander unable to mount effective resistance and cause significant damage.
To receive a surrender from an organized armed force you need said organized armed force to be capable of acting like an organized armed force - to review the reliable intel that presents surrender as the optimal course of action for it, to form a decision to surrender and act with an authority to lay down their arms. You cannot accept a surrender from a disorganized mob - that only serves to annihilate the distinction between a combatant and noncombatant and shift the conflict into the COIN phase. If you successfully disintegrate the enemy force, it's fragments will not have any authority to lay down their arms or even the intel to know that it's everyone being fucked everywhere and not just their detail in particular.
dragoongfa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:07 pm
Civilian leadership is also far more likely to surrender if they are cut off from their military.
Said civilian leadership also needs to be able to receive and process solid information and make informed decisions in it's own authority to recognize your new administration. To get control over a city you need the guys running the city to be willing to work under your regime. You can't have that if nobody is running the city, due to being dead, captured or cut off from all their C&C and logistical infrastructure - it means you can't control it period, and probably that everything and everyone valuable in it is toppling down, on fire and starving, probably simultaneously.

Which all just seems like a lot of extra effort to achieve the same effect that glassing would have.
dragoongfa wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:07 pm
After a point it becomes a game of cutting things down to manageable pieces. The out of an early total surrender was given when orbital supremacy was established; if the overall leaders didn't surrender at that point they have already exhibited disregard of the well being of the populace at large. Decapitation and addressing the next in line is par of the course. If the leadership keeps refusing to surrender then one has to wonder if they are insane in refuting an obviously superior force or if they are expecting some reprieve and are baying for time.
Yes, and that is in essence the consequentialist approach to a total war of extermination. You seek out maximum efficiency approaches to annihilating the opposition, find out that (save WMDs) it involves isolating and feeding everyone into a wood-chipper feet first one by one, and then wonder how come everyone are such chaotic disorganized madmen full of disregard for the well being of the populace at large when they generally act like isolated bands and refuse to surrender to a fellow feeding everyone into a wood-chipper feet first one by one, so you just have to kill them all because apparently they left you no choice, the vile things.

Without even going beyond the pragmatic considerations - this is how you get yourself a Seren, and weird aliens discussing the hearsay intel on your MO concluding that the other side looks definitely better, while your prospects don't look so good - and we know that this is not how Loroi operate, as they evidently know (even from their internal historical experience) the value of generally maintaining a distinction between military and civilian targets and recognizing the authority of the forces that submit to them (they built a regime out of doing exactly that) - at least before they find themselves resorting to glassing. But glassing doesn't require invasions, so...
Last edited by Mk_C on Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

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Werra wrote:
Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:59 pm
Wouldn't radio work if the groups using it are themselves decentralized?
Just having means of broadcasting and receiving signals does not a comm network make. Just for us to exchange shitposts on this forum over the Internets requires these signals being properly encoded, transmitted to proper processing centers and distributed to the proper destination. It doesn't matter if you give literally anyone ansibles or whatever - a functional C&C system requires a network of points that recieve intel, process it, encode it into a proper digestible form, send it out upwards, integrate it into a bigger picture, give it over further up along the chain all the way to the strategic command of any functioning force - and after said command makes proper decisions based on that intel, the same process happens again, only it contains orders and goes downwards.

Whatever your technology is - ansibles, radio, or courier vessels, the system would require such a network, and this network would be vital for any operation of significant scale, and it will have multiple points of vulnerability. Disrupting it turns any warfighting organization into an armed herd, so disrupting it is always an efficient way of affecting the enemy's capabilities. Disrupting it absolutely serves to make the enemy absolutely incapable of mounting organized operations against you. And as a by-product it also makes the enemy absolutely incapable of cooperating with you and thus stopping being your enemy.

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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by dragoongfa »

Mk_C wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:55 am
Achieve effects similar to indiscriminate orbital bombardment.

and snipped because I think there is a lot of misunderstanding going here.
All I have to ask is how you got this from my suppossition?

The process of escalation isn't instanteneous nor absolute. The orbiting fleet doesn't start firing without warning nor prior warnings, calls for surrender are given repeatedly through the process while also clearly demonstrating superior military abilities while also inflicting targeted strikes on high value targets and securing persons of interest. It would take a non insignificant amount of time for each step to happen; no one is expected to be blindly stupid not to realize what each step means.

You start by putting the fleet in orbit in a flashy way; you scan all available transmissions for intelligence and plan the next step accordingly. Everyone bellow knows this and can infer your intentions and clearly hear your demands for surrender.
You continue by limiting your target's major logistical chains and ability to detect the deployment of your forces. They are still able to fully communicate with each other and still have a pretty clear picture of what is going on and what your demands are.
Then you send in recon and force recon teams. You target select high value individuals for capture and/or elimination; you demonstrate that not only you are already on the ground but you can strike everywhere with precise and overwhelming force. The enemy knows all this, knows that this is a prelude for what is to come, can still communicate clearly with each other, they know from day one that they are against overwhelming force and still refuse to surrender after days of facing off with an orbiting fleet.
Then you begin the landing operations, muting any and all military and civilian avenues of communications to limit their ability to concentrate their forces and to instill a sense of confusion and panicked urgency to the civilian leadership.
You then proceed to project overwhelming force against local pockets of resistance in a campaign that lasts for days/weeks/months (depending on the size of the planet) until all organized resistance surrenders after being called to or is destroyed.

At no time during the above is the enemy unable to surrender, nor will the efforts to hinder their communications continue should their leadership finally decide to surrender.

If the enemy from the highest echelons to the local garrison commanders is willing to fanatically fight to the death like the Japanese were at the battle of Okinawa it's up to them; you can't fix fanatisicm with words or pleas for surrender.

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Quickdraw101
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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Quickdraw101 »

If the forces on the ground know what's good for them, scattering and hiding assets will be their best bet. Surface naval assets shutting off radars,and submarines staying beneath the waves works fine. Taking time to hide tanks, mobile missile launchers, and light aircraft in forested areas would be a good idea, saving them from immediate destruction, with the hope of using them later on when the heat dies down. In urban combat, armored vehicles have a chance to see combat against Loroi ground forces if you take a page from urban tank fighting we saw in WW2 and even in Syria. Drive vehicles into shops and buildings, and wait and see if enemy combatants happen to enter the area. Now they won't survive long once they make themselves known, but it's a chance to bloody the invaders ground forces. Have any and all aircraft in the air when they start striking bases from orbit and deploying onto the planet. Admittedly, they won't last long either, but claiming some kills is better than none. Infantry get scattered around urban areas, many with anti tank and anti air launchers, with orders to inflict as many casualties as possible on the attackers. Best to just conduct urban warfare and blled the invaders as much as possible. The means of resistance are nuclear submarines launching missiles at landing sites once the enemy thinks its clear, causing further casualties. After all that, basically just guerilla warfare against the invaders.

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Werra
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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Werra »

dragoongfa wrote:Anyone can hear radio comms unless encrypted and even then they are easily detected, they require some sort of infrastrure for long range communications as well as comms discipline to be of effect in a military campaign.
You don't actually need a lot of complicated infrastructure to communicate globally via radio. If one radio operator can reach at least two others, any kind of message can be passed along a network of such operators. Each individual broadcast would only have short range and therefore be somewhat difficult to localize.
The network could be taken out, but only by finding and engaging each individual cell and whoever therein carries a backpack sized radio.

Yes, it too requires organization and personel. Yet it's useful until your side runs out of personel. At which point the fighting is nearing its conclusion anyway.

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Arioch
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Re: How would the Loroi Army invade a planet?

Post by Arioch »

Peer to peer networks of mobile devices would be very difficult to silence. As would underground cabled networks, especially if they had redundant hubs.

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