Page 194: partial functionality

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CrimsonFALKE
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Re: Page 194: partial functionality

Post by CrimsonFALKE »

raistlin34 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:34 am
CrimsonFALKE wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:54 am
Okay given the conversations happening is it even possible the Historians could have a weapon system this far out? Also it is right the lorori show a lot of racist traits with their telepathy.
Is not as much racism as a consequence of their telepath culture. Loroi don't (most simply cannot) hide anything from each other, but the rest of species lie constantly, which is perceived both as an insult and a moral flaw.
And now there is that weird non-Loroi pink male whose lies cannot be checked the usual way because of his ridiculously strong Lotai.
If you see a vault protected by a 25-ton ultra-resistant door, your first thought is "whatever is inside must be very valuable."
I'm more concerned about the first part of comment than the second.

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Rasayana
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Re: Page 194: partial functionality

Post by Rasayana »

CrimsonFALKE wrote:
Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:34 pm
raistlin34 wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 8:34 am
CrimsonFALKE wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:54 am
Okay given the conversations happening is it even possible the Historians could have a weapon system this far out? Also it is right the lorori show a lot of racist traits with their telepathy.
Is not as much racism as a consequence of their telepath culture. Loroi don't (most simply cannot) hide anything from each other, but the rest of species lie constantly, which is perceived both as an insult and a moral flaw.
And now there is that weird non-Loroi pink male whose lies cannot be checked the usual way because of his ridiculously strong Lotai.
If you see a vault protected by a 25-ton ultra-resistant door, your first thought is "whatever is inside must be very valuable."
I'm more concerned about the first part of comment than the second.

I might have missed some of the conversation leading up to your question. As for how far out we are, it would seem to me that the Historians are better located for projecting power in the region than lets say the Barsam are:

https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/imag ... r_map1.jpg

And we know that the Barsam at least have a smaller vessel in the relative vicinity.

Why were you asking?

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projekcja
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Re: Page 194: partial functionality

Post by projekcja »

Rasayana wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:39 am
What information can we assume that the pocket historian have on humanity and Alex?
The location of earth? A (more or less plausible) confirmation on a peaceful human mission?
Since the construct claims they have been through the wreckage of the Bellermine, given they're impressive ability to hack and understand English as a completely new alien language, it seems very plausible that it could figure out the location of Earth, and understand that the few ships sent by a "scout corps" of a small newly space faring civilization are 'peaceful' (just looking around and seeing what's out there before deciding what to do about it, which may or may not be peaceful).
Anyhow, while there are arguments to keeping the location of Earth and the other colonies a secret (so someone seeking to annihilate humanity doesn't know where to go among the huge number of stars, buying time for some to escape), there's also arguments for revealing them right away (saying we claimed them, and preventing other civilizations from planning to colonize them themselves. Also to allow cooperation, trade). Humanity choose the latter option, giving instructions to Alex to be forthright with the information. So even if the construct doesn't know the location of Earth, it'll find it out pretty fast.
Rasayana wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:39 am
Files on Alex, such as letters of recommendation for and against him? If so, is the pocket Historian making assumptions as to what possible social pitfalls Alex should be warned of based on 1) human nature, 2) Alex documented tendencies towards impudence, and/or 3) more general concerns of which different races tend to lose sight of their own interests?
Even just from the interactions the Historians have with Alex, I think it's easy for them to assume that he's the kind of person that, if warned not to ask the Loroi about say, the similarity between their and human anatomy, he would slip and ask just that. That's why I think the constuct isn't warning Alex about the topic of inquiry that could (and would - it's only a matter of time) trigger one of the Loroi's to seek his destruction.
Rasayana wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:39 am
It's true as it might be that friendly smiles, and lip-service, is not wise to put your faith in. Story-wise though, when Alex appeal to his word of honor (and we know it's true), it attests to an irrational aspect of human nature which is of some importance of how we make decisions. I think that the Historian might be bad at gauging how important it may be for humans, and Loroi, to act in an honorable way or seeing that someone else does so.
I think being honorable, and being consistently truthful, are not in any way distinctively human or Loroi possible behaviors, but rather a universal possibility, as it comes directly from the mathematics of game theory. If you can maintain the semblance of being honorable, everyone will expect you to be truthful, which can be hugely beneficial. The Umiak who talked to the Loroi is heavily banking on such an effect, as his words would not have any impact if as the Loroi said after he talked, the Umiak lie all the time.
Rasayana wrote:
Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:39 am
Also, is it just me or have Alex kept the Loroi in the dark regarding how love rank ensign is? During the attack on the Bellarmine, he said that he was "not on the bridge" (page 60) as if he could usually be expected to be there (and not running repair works). Can we assume that Alex original rank is information which the Historian have, and the Loroi does not?
Imagine an alien telling us that his rank on its ship is RFF :idea: AASR. Wouldn't you inquire as to what it means rather than just assume it's pretty high? The Loroi's lack of apparent curiosity on the matter, I think, was a matter of an internal struggle about Alex's fate. If a low ranking alien can by protocol, be sent to experimentation and vivisection, at the will of the captain who captured them, but higher ranks are the responsibility of the diplomatic corps, those seeking diplomacy and having contact with Alex avoided getting this information into the protocol by not asking how high a rank Enzin is, and promptly 'promoted' him to captain so his fate would be theirs to decide.

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