Aiien Racism... Why It Would Exist In A Scifi Setting

[Tamri]

Perhaps, I write through a translator, so it's hard for me to judge. In fact, no, I am quite tolerant of this one, because from the point of view of my experience, this is an inevitable evil for at least the next two hundred years.

I am much more offended by the wrong terminology, since certain terms mark certain concepts and problems, but entering into a discussion, you may suddenly find that the interlocutor meant something completely different, and you have to revise the translation of the translation again in order to understand what in fact there was a speech.

The lack of context is bad in itself, but its confusion is much worse, as practice shows.

[Cthulhu]

The problem is that racism is a very human concept. You see, our brain and psyche are a rather peculiar mechanism. The hardware (brain) and drivers/firmware (instincts) are still at the level of our hunter/gatherer ancestors, whereas the software was somewhat updated by our civilization.

On the other hand, the human mind likes to "automatize" as many routines as possible. This can range from small things like not even consciously walking down a familiar path up to bigger things like prejudices and racism. It is also a remnant of our savage past, where you had to learn and to react very quickly, with no time to reflect and debate. There is also no true "racism", we merely attribute a certain set of prejudices to a color. This is not limited to that, however, it is just a subset in a very complex (and disgusting) mechanism of intolerance, "-isms" and "-phobias".
Anyway, let's look at some examples:

1. "True" xenophobia, that is, the fear of the unknown in general. Our instincts are still trying to gauge whether a stranger is a friend or foe, but meanwhile, urge us to be wary of him. The more somebody else is diverging from what we perceive as normal, the higher the level of this initial, instinctual wariness.
2. "Casual" racism, which simply eases our interaction with the world. Instead of recalculating our attitude every time we meet a stranger, it's far easier to judge everyone based on some "standards" and prejudices that we have already prepared in advance. Skin color is a very distinct characteristic that is easy to distinguish, but it is not limited to this one. Again, it stems from our instincts, and requires conscious effort to overcome. Sadly, most humans are too lazy for that.
3. "Group" racism, which is just a consensus of what one group thinks of another. It is interwoven with the previous points, but is also combined with the concept of us-vs-them mentality that is ingrained in our instincts, too. This enhances the group's inner strength, since it offers us the acceptance of like-minded people. To overcome this barrier, you'd need not only to question that consensus, but to possibly jeopardize your standing in the group. All that for a stranger? Too few have the courage or willingness to go that far.
4. "Intentional" racism, where things get very ugly and political. This is simply one of the most dangerous, but also effective tools at controlling the masses. Let' not discuss this here...

What I'm trying to explain is that an alien species will have a completely different point of view regarding new and unknown things. A different species will have different instincts and expressions thereof. They will also attribute completely unknown ratios and weights regarding those points. We can try to gauge what the Loroi think, since they are our "cousins", but for the others? It's just speculation. Even among us Humans, those 4 examples may express themselves to wildly varying degrees.

[Demarquis]

Cthulhu has it exactly right, and I would further add that "racism" (in quotes become the real world phenomenon isn't limited only to racial groups) is one particular manifestation of what psychological researchers call the "in-Group Bias", except focused on demographic categories. The IGB is a cognitive shortcut the mind uses to help save mental energy by categorizing people and attaching emotional associations to them. Everyone belongs to one or more "in-groups", which are communities that form some element of the self concept. We base our sense of self partially on the groups we perceive ourselves to belong to, and as a consequence, we spontaneously perceive that members of those in-groups are better and more deserving than people who do not belong or belong to "out-groups". In-groups are partially defined at their boundaries by the sorts of people who are excluded (thus, for example, the in-group "Americans" automatically excludes citizens of other nations; "Whites" excludes people of color (however defined), and so forth). The reason that this is such a powerful mechanism is due to the fact that since we define ourselves by membership in certain categories, our self-worth and esteem is bound up in that identity. We convince ourselves that we are an awesome, deserving person, that we should feel good about ourselves, because our in-groups are awesome too. The reason why this psychological process is problematic at the societal level is due to it's exclusiveness--in-groups imply out-groups and members of out-groups have negative emotional associations attached to them.

Are the Loroi racist? It depends on the extent to which they define themselves by in-group membership.

[Werra]

How is racism a "very human concept"? As Demarquis laid out, it's a form of ingroup preference. With how natural selection works, ingroup preference is ubiquitous to nature. It doesn't even take much intellect. Bees and ants commit genocide as a greeting.

[Cthulhu]

What I meant is that the way how racism, or any other ingroup preference works, is based upon how our brains and instincts are wired. Aliens will, quite naturally, have vastly different evolution paths that should lead them to different outcomes. On top of that, we are also intelligent, and our culture is constantly shaping those instincts into new forms of "-isms". Other race's cultures will of course produce their own results.

Bees and ants are not intelligent, though, so they cannot serve as a point of reference, since they act purely on instinct. We can only try and imagine what a truly alien mind may think.

[Arioch]

There is a limited extent to which our concept of racism can be applied to non-human species.

Cats and dogs are not treated the same as humans; they don't have the same rights or privileges, and they are chattel that can be bought and sold. Is that racism?

The aliens from the Alien movies are presumably intelligent, but they're incredibly hostile and incredibly dangerous... if you're smart, you'll shoot on sight, and do your best to exterminate them as a species. Is that racism?

The telepathic Loroi can interact telepathically to a small degree with some non-Loroi species, but there are ways they can communicate with other Loroi that they'll never be able to with non-Loroi. Is that racism? Or just a fact of their reality?

[Bamax]

No one wants a mind too divergent from our own to read about anyway.

Scifi aliens must I argue retain human intelligence at the very least.

That is what separates us from the beasts who urinate and poop wherever they please and live outside.

[Demetrious]

There is a limited extent to which our concept of racism can be applied to non-human species.

Cats and dogs are not treated the same as humans; they don't have the same rights or privileges, and they are chattel that can be bought and sold. Is that racism?

The aliens from the Alien movies are presumably intelligent, but they're incredibly hostile and incredibly dangerous... if you're smart, you'll shoot on sight, and do your best to exterminate them as a species. Is that racism?

The telepathic Loroi can interact telepathically to a small degree with some non-Loroi species, but there are ways they can communicate with other Loroi that they'll never be able to with non-Loroi. Is that racism? Or just a fact of their reality?

This is a very succinct way of saying that inter-species relations are much, much more likely to be governed by more basic and pressing concerns (i.e. direct competition for survival) than the nuances intrinsic to intra-species relations.

If anyone ever picks up our "I Love Lucy" broadcasts and decides to mail a world-ending relativistic KKV our way, it'll be due to the cold logic of the Dark Forest theorem and not because blue alien octopi hate red alien octopi on Cyngus V.

[Bamax]

There is a limited extent to which our concept of racism can be applied to non-human species.

Cats and dogs are not treated the same as humans; they don't have the same rights or privileges, and they are chattel that can be bought and sold. Is that racism?

The aliens from the Alien movies are presumably intelligent, but they're incredibly hostile and incredibly dangerous... if you're smart, you'll shoot on sight, and do your best to exterminate them as a species. Is that racism?

The telepathic Loroi can interact telepathically to a small degree with some non-Loroi species, but there are ways they can communicate with other Loroi that they'll never be able to with non-Loroi. Is that racism? Or just a fact of their reality?

This is a very succinct way of saying that inter-species relations are much, much more likely to be governed by more basic and pressing concerns (i.e. direct competition for survival) than the nuances intrinsic to intra-species relations.

If anyone ever picks up our "I Love Lucy" broadcasts and decides to mail a world-ending relativistic KKV our way, it'll be due to the cold logic of the Dark Forest theorem and not because blue alien octopi hate red alien octopi on Cyngus V.

Quite amused I was on a scifi blog where the author said if a humanoid race is wise, they build the closest alliances with those that are the most biologically different than them.

Why? Because if your allies have radically different biological needs compared to your race, they will never be inciined to compete with your race over the stuff you use that they don't want anyway.


That logic seldom ever holds in scifi though, since who would want Outsider reversed?

Evil empire efficient Loroi, telepathic ugly bugs with one who is fascinated with learning about Alex.

Zero sexual tension now... since no one finds the bugs sexy.

And guys, at least in most cultures, have a stigma over fighting females anyway, so imagine how much harder it would be for Alex to pick up a blaster rifle and and start firing at pretty space elfs with ugly bug allies.

Thus humanoids tend to stick together... because despite the possibility of competition, social and sexual compatibility tends to override the pure logic of avoiding a possible competitor.

[Werra]

There is a limited extent to which our concept of racism can be applied to non-human species.
[...]
The telepathic Loroi can interact telepathically to a small degree with some non-Loroi species, but there are ways they can communicate with other Loroi that they'll never be able to with non-Loroi. Is that racism? Or just a fact of their reality?

Yeah, if the aliens in question don't have agency equivalent to a human we'd never call them racist. But if they can converse in English, where is the difference in discriminatory behaviour done by a human or an alien?
(validity check: Why wouldn't this difference also apply to love/friendship?)

And why not both? A prejudice can still be correct. If somebody tells you that all Cretans are liars, the guy is being prejudiced. But it is possible that all Cretans truly do lie. Even if only a portion of Cretans are liars, treating them like they all are could protect you from harm. This way a prejudice can still be very useful if it is "true enough".

Bees and ants are not intelligent, though, so they cannot serve as a point of reference, since they act purely on instinct. We can only try and imagine what a truly alien mind may think.

That they act purely on instinct is the point. Ingroup preference -to the severity of genocide- does not require intellect.

[Cthulhu]

That they act purely on instinct is the point. Ingroup preference -to the severity of genocide- does not require intellect.

1. We are not talking about pure instincts, but how those influence our culture and actions. Unlike ants, we can overcome them through conscious effort, and intelligent aliens should be able to do so too, yet to what degree?
2. Aliens will have vastly different instincts and intellect, therefore they may not even have that bias, or it could be expressed in a completely, well, alien way.
3. Human, as well as alien brains would be wired to work with the same species. Something completely different may not even register within that framework, or could trigger different response mechanisms. What if the aliens are cuddly and cute?

[Werra]

Racism is based on instincts. All human emotions are. That some people can overcome some of them is irrelevant.

The same goes to the different biology of aliens. It doesn't matter. As long as they can perceive differences between human races and can make the decision to treat those unequally, they can be racist.

Whether or not the reasons for this unequal treatment are valid or not is another topic.

[Cthulhu]

I mean that aliens may not even have the concept of racism, or that they could have a vastly different mechanism instead. Since we do not know what said alien biology is based on, or how they even perceive reality, such conclusions must be made by the author that invented them. He would need to base whatever bias the aliens have upon some sort of logic, or create a believable setting why this concept is missing completely.
What is true, however, is that the writer will be human, equipped with all those bias and instincts. It would be quite the feat to invent some truly alien way of thinking, while still making it interesting for the reader.

[Bamax]

I mean that aliens may not even have the concept of racism, or that they could have a vastly different mechanism instead. Since we do not know what said alien biology is based on, or how they even perceive reality, such conclusions must be made by the author that invented them. He would need to base whatever bias the aliens have upon some sort of logic, or create a believable setting why this concept is missing completely.
What is true, however, is that the writer will be human, equipped with all those bias and instincts. It would be quite the feat to invent some truly alien way of thinking, while still making it interesting for the reader.

Aliens only need to consistent so a reader knows what they are and how they as are different, if at all, from us

Everyone knows what Klingons are about, and everyone knows that although the Loroi behave like humans, they are far more blunt and honest to the point of cringeworthy levels at times. And we know what their culture is based on.

So that is enough. I would add that every rascist trope has some truth to it.

Yes... there are many whites who are rascist, and there are many blacks who are criminal gangsters.

Does that make it OK to blanket hate all of them because of that? No.

Caution is advised obviously so one does not walk into situations that will result in harm... so that may come off as prejudice at times, but people will view anything they know to be a potential danger as a real one.

Rascists just take it to a whole exaggerated level.

[Keklas Rekobah]

Strange how antipathy toward a particular race is labelled "Racism", while sympathy toward the same race is labelled "Fetishism".

[Demarquis]

" Is that racism? Or just a fact of their reality?"

By definition, racism is never a fact of reality--it's inherently a perception. If the perception of positive attitude toward in-group members and negative bias against outgroup members serves the psychological purpose of inflating self-esteem, it's racism (more technically, "bigotry"). If the perception serves another psychological purpose ("Run from angry bears") then it's something else. This is a case where a phenomenon isn't defined by the outcome, but by the process that produced the outcome (as it so often is in psychology). If the Loroi hate all Humans, is that racist? Depends on why they hate us.

[Werra]

I mean that aliens may not even have the concept of racism, or that they could have a vastly different mechanism instead. Since we do not know what said alien biology is based on, or how they even perceive reality, such conclusions must be made by the author that invented them.

Can you explain how this standard applies to racism and not to other concepts such as friendship, love or being a metalhead?

By definition, racism is never a fact of reality--it's inherently a perception. If the perception of positive attitude toward in-group members and negative bias against outgroup members serves the psychological purpose of inflating self-esteem, it's racism (more technically, "bigotry"). If the perception serves another psychological purpose ("Run from angry bears") then it's something else. This is a case where a phenomenon isn't defined by the outcome, but by the process that produced the outcome (as it so often is in psychology). If the Loroi hate all Humans, is that racist? Depends on why they hate us.

People have lots of reasons to be racist, only a subset of which are about self-esteem. Bad experiences with members of a certain race can and have caused racism towards that race, for instance.

[Keklas Rekobah]

↑ If the only experience with the Loroi involved being mind-probed and then slammed against a bulkhead by a beautiful red-haired female of the species, then some race-based prejudice might be a result.

As it is, the kindnesses of the others (as well as Fireblade's leaked dreams) likely mitigated Alex's negative feelings toward his "hosts".

But they are still not his friends.

[Bamax]

↑ If the only experience with the Loroi involved being mind-probed and then slammed against a bulkhead by a beautiful red-haired female of the species, then some race-based prejudice might be a result.

As it is, the kindnesses of the others (as well as Fireblade's leaked dreams) likely mitigated Alex's negative feelings toward his "hosts".

But they are still not his friends.

There you go!

I have had both good and bad experiences with a particular race, so unless I know them enough, I will have my common sense guards up.

In other words... ensuring food I receive from them has not been 'played with' (has happened btw) and ensuring whatever I seek is what I need as opposed to just what's easiest for them.


That said, I have had enough good experiences as well that I do not have any sore feelings towards them as a whole.

Yet when the only experience you have with another race is negative and it happens at virtually every restaurant... that makes it all too easy to not like them.

Apparently it is more a cultural dissonance than anything else, since I have read online that some from this race admit they don't even know they come off as rude.

So for what it is worth, every culture has it's pros and cons.

So do not be surprised if some put a lower value on politeness and generousity than others.

I guarantee you they excel in some other way.

[Cthulhu]

Can you explain how this standard applies to racism and not to other concepts such as friendship, love or being a metalhead?

The short answer is that I cannot...


... and the long answer is exactly what I'm trying to explain. Aliens may not have any concepts we humans have, and this includes racism, but also love, friendship or the existence of music. They could even have something else instead of them, it's up to the author to invent a believable background setting. He may choose to adopt some human conventions as is, to give them a different twist or create a wholly new concept.

The aliens may be digitized consciousness who can actually get rid of prejudice, since they could be able to calculate friend/foe probabilities in real-time and adjust them according to newly acquired data.

In the case of Loroi, who are our "cousins", we can recognize most of our instincts, behavior patterns or even body language. But even then, there are some notable differences, since gender roles, for example, are viewed differently.