When The Great Lift Fell

[Bamax]

Must have been kind of like this, only difference being that Umiak somehow managed to keep the lift from getting completely destroyed. Still crashed to the ground and oblliterated the City Of Fire... with burning irony.

From the show Foundation




The irony is that the Loroi did this to their own city to hurt the Umiak war effort.

A fair trade considering the stakes. Since survival of your race will make virtually anything doable even if not desired before.

No doubt many Loroi died as result, as well as whatever Umiak were onboard or nearby in the city below.

All is fair in love and war they say.... grim but true.

[Dan Wyatt]

The attack on Calth using a subliminal freighter is even better, from "Know No fear".

[Arioch]

Oh, Foundation is already out? Is it any good?

[Zorg56]

No, not really.
Graphics is good but not much more then that.

[Bamax]

Oh, Foundation is already out? Is it any good?

Is it good?

I have only seen youtube clips. Based upon that it has:

1. Sympathetic and interesting characters. Lee Pace is all I have to say... evil but also has a soft side... on occasion.

2. Did I mention Lee Pace? He literally chews the scenery and steals every scene. His intensity yet ability to be calm and suddenly fly off into an unpredictable rage makes watching him a tense thing to so.

Edit: This is better a show of his character. Compassion and cruelty.

[EdwardSteed]

Oh, Foundation is already out? Is it any good?

There isn't a straight forward answer because the show is really two shows as virtually anyone who has watched the whole thing will attest (well there is also a bit of a third one standing in the middle). One looks and feels like a high quality HBO drama and the other like a low quality YA adventure produced by the CW or Syfy channel. The difference in quality (writing/casting/effects) between them is stark.

Without getting into spoilers beyond the blurb on the back of the book Foundation is the story of a galaxy spanning empire and a guy who has used math to predict that collapse is inevitable in only a few hundred years. The "Foundation" is set out as a project to preserve knowledge and shorten the dark age that will follow, though this doomsday prediction doesn't make him or his follows popular with the empire.

After the first 2 episodes the TV adaption essentially splits into two plot lines. The "Empire" plot is something created for the show and follows the empire's leadership in the years following the prediction. The "Terminus" plot is adapted from the book and follows the people who went off to some barren planet at the edge of the galaxy to do their project.

Surprisingly the Empire plot is the good one, with Lee Pace being a major factor although most of the actors on that side are pretty good. The writers created something that turns out to be really creative called the "Genetic Dynasty" (introduced in ep1) as a way of letting the viewers see events that take place over decades (and presumably in later seasons centuries) without constantly introducing new actors. Basically the empire is ruled by a line of identical clones of the first emperor. At any time there are three "brothers": Dawn, who is a child in training to lead, Day who actually leads, and Dusk who is sort of an advisor/elder statesmen, with the roles shifting as a Dusk dies and a new baby Dawn is popped out of a jar to replace him. Empire is what makes the show worth watching and if you have Apple TV I'd suggest watching just for it.

The Terminus plot is... bad. Really bad. Characters make decisions that make no sense and a well regarded novel that was originally about math, logical thinking, and solving problems using brains instead of violence is reduced to violent fights, insufferably dumb characters and resolutions that are powered by character(s) being "special" in a way that's basically magic.

There's also a limited third story that eventually pops up that is basically an excuse to let Jared Harris do a scene every episode. It's watchable but not without its flaws.

[Arioch]

I know what the story's about... I've read the first book.

A young adult adventure is exactly what I'd expect from the hipsters at Apple... but I'm glad to hear the Empire plot is better. I really like Lee Pace.

I wouldn't subscribe to Apple TV if my life depended on it, so my interest in the show is more academic than anything else.

[Demarquis]

"Surprisingly the Empire plot is the good one"

Not so surprising when one considers that the original Foundation plot was considered unfilmable for decades. It was originally written as a series of loosely connected short stories and doesn't even have a consistent set of characters. Someone should take just the middle of the series (the part about the mutant known as the "Mule") and make a decent thriller out of it.

[Arioch]

I'm not a huge fan of Asimov to begin with, but I'm just happy to see some classic science fiction finally make it to the screen, with Foundation, Dune, and now someone is talking about Rendezvous with Rama. Hollywood seems to be starved for ideas, remaking the same crap over and over, when there's a whole milieu of classic science fiction stories out there just waiting to be adapted.

I know, adapting novels to the screen isn't easy, and good screenwriters are another thing Hollywood seems to be in short supply of.

[Bamax]

I'm not a huge fan of Asimov to begin with, but I'm just happy to see some classic science fiction finally make it to the screen, with Foundation, Dune, and now someone is talking about Rendezvous with Rama. Hollywood seems to be starved for ideas, remaking the same crap over and over, when there's a whole milieu of classic science fiction stories out there just waiting to be adapted.

I know, adapting novels to the screen isn't easy, and good screenwriters are another thing Hollywood seems to be in short supply of.

Superheroes are rather played out... just about everything that can be done with them has been done. Evil superheroes? Been done. Superheroes fighting other superheroes? Done.

Probably the only thing that has not been done is pure superhero comedy.

Like honestly.. the drama has become old... I would much rather watch stuff like the video below.. since at least it is less predictable.

It's not that I do not like drama, it's that superhero movies and shows lack suspense and intrigue to such a degree that only question you have is... who dies?

The way I see it... action only carries entertainment so far.

Characters should be interesting even if they are not coming to blows. Superhero movies kind of build around the action rather than interesting characters who just do happen to be in the action.

For that matter, it is a real poor choice for villains to have or show more character than heroes.

At least it should be equal, otherwise the entire heart and soul of the film is the villain with shallow hero support characters.

Man of Steel did this.. Michael Shannon had a lot more lines than Cavill did, and his motivations and reasoning were well known. Superman's? Less compelling that's fir sure... facial expressions only go so far... unless Cavill thought he was playing a Loroi lol (and even Loroi would get humorous sanzai subtitles).

Cavill was just a handsome face who goes down in history as a more manly superman than brandon routh, but also a disturbingly quiet one.

[Keklas Rekobah]

... it is a real poor choice for villains to have or show more character than heroes.  At least it should be equal, otherwise the entire heart and soul of the film is the villain with shallow hero support characters. ...

We hold these truths to be self-evident:

• "Villains are much more pro-active than heroes.  Heroes, by their nature, are purely reactionary forces.  The villain is, in all ways, an agent of change.  A catalyst." -- Black Mage from Eight Bit Theater

• "That's the problem with heroes, really.  Their only purpose in life is to thwart others.  They make no plans, develop no strategies.  They react instead of act.  Without villains, heroes would stagnate.  Without heroes, villains would be running the world.  Heroes have morals.  Villains have work ethic." -- Narration from The Last Avengers Story

[Bamax]

... it is a real poor choice for villains to have or show more character than heroes.  At least it should be equal, otherwise the entire heart and soul of the film is the villain with shallow hero support characters. ...

We hold these truths to be self-evident:

• "Villains are much more pro-active than heroes.  Heroes, by their nature, are purely reactionary forces.  The villain is, in all ways, an agent of change.  A catalyst." -- Black Mage from Eight Bit Theater

• "That's the problem with heroes, really.  Their only purpose in life is to thwart others.  They make no plans, develop no strategies.  They react instead of act.  Without villains, heroes would stagnate.  Without heroes, villains would be running the world.  Heroes have morals.  Villains have work ethic." -- Narration from The Last Avengers Story

That is merely the underdog trope, which can apply to either.

Ever watch Prisonbreak the TV series? Heroes are the underdogs with great work ethic. It's the villains who must respond to their sabotage and attacks.

[Keklas Rekobah]

... it is a real poor choice for villains to have or show more character than heroes.  At least it should be equal, otherwise the entire heart and soul of the film is the villain with shallow hero support characters. ...

We hold these truths to be self-evident:

• "Villains are much more pro-active than heroes.  Heroes, by their nature, are purely reactionary forces.  The villain is, in all ways, an agent of change.  A catalyst." -- Black Mage from Eight Bit Theater

• "That's the problem with heroes, really.  Their only purpose in life is to thwart others.  They make no plans, develop no strategies.  They react instead of act.  Without villains, heroes would stagnate.  Without heroes, villains would be running the world.  Heroes have morals.  Villains have work ethic." -- Narration from The Last Avengers Story

That is merely the underdog trope, which can apply to either.  Ever watch Prisonbreak the TV series? Heroes are the underdogs with great work ethic. It's the villains who must respond to their sabotage and attacks.

The hero reacted to his brother's frameup and had himself convicted so he could break his brother out of prison.  Had the villains not framed the brother, the brothers would be ordinary average guys leading ordinary average lives, with average kids, and average wives.

( Link to Lyrics )

[Demarquis]

Heh. Villains have been more interesting than heroes since Dracula.

As for classic sci-fi that Hollywood might consider adapting:

1) The Stainless Steel Rat--but only if they go for sophisticated comedy

2) The Dunwich Horror--but only if they capitalize on the creepy atmosphere, not special effects

3) "Sector General" and play up the alien characters.

[Bamax]

Heh. Villains have been more interesting than heroes since Dracula.

As for classic sci-fi that Hollywood might consider adapting:

1) The Stainless Steel Rat--but only if they go for sophisticated comedy

2) The Dunwich Horror--but only if they capitalize on the creepy atmosphere, not special effects

3) "Sector General" and play up the alien characters.

Sherlock Holmes and Dr Who are written as more interesting than those they fight usually.

[Keklas Rekobah]

"Sector General" and "Medship" were great, because they both parted from the "Zap the bug-eyed alien" cliché.

[Demarquis]

"Sherlock Holmes and Dr Who are written as more interesting than those they fight usually."

I see your Holmes and the Doctor and raise you a Thanos and a Dr. No.

""Sector General" and "Medship" were great, because they both parted from the "Zap the bug-eyed alien" cliché."

I never read the "Medship" stories, were they good? What I liked about Sector General was the wide variety and creativity of all the weird and wonderful alien physiologies. I doubt any other work has invested as much time and effort into the biological details of alien life, and how that might affect the way they could interact with other species.

[kyosanim]

I know what the story's about... I've read the first book.

A young adult adventure is exactly what I'd expect from the hipsters at Apple... but I'm glad to hear the Empire plot is better. I really like Lee Pace.

I wouldn't subscribe to Apple TV if my life depended on it, so my interest in the show is more academic than anything else.

There are ways to see the show that doesn't involve subscribe Apple's TV.

[Keklas Rekobah]

I never read the "Medship" stories, were they good? ...

On par with Sector General, although focusing on only one protagonist.