Are The Umiak Tne Enemy The Loroi Deserve Or Are They Just Victims Of Circumstance?

[Bamax]

Sometimes through mistakes and blunders, some organizations, whether commercial, politcal, or religious, end up essentialky creating enemies of people who either are critical of their failures or victims of them.


In the process antiagonists are developed with the sole goal of dissassembiling the said organization.


So.... do the Loroi deserve the Umiak as enemies? Have they done enough to deserve them as such?

Certainly the Umiak think so.

Sometimes... no matter how good an organization tries to be or even is... through their blunders and harm done to others they end up as it were 'earning' the wrath of those who later become their enemies.

If it's a spoiler do not abswer arioch. I respect that.

[harlequin2262]

I don't think anything the Loroi did or didn't do make them the opponents of the Umiak. They're just in their way, and pretty clearly the Umiak were Imperialistic to start with, just as, more or less, the Loroi were.

It's a routine clash of Empires, not ideologies. Both deserve the other because it's largely inevitable that one Empire will encounter another, and clash with it.

[spacewhale]

If there are aliens that can basically infiltrate and hack ships, how do we know the war wasn't started on false pretenses? i.e. Interference with sensors, fire control systems, to spark off a greater conflict and eliminate a good portion of both sides. Provide help here and there to the fighting sides so they better dispose of one another.

[Bamax]

I don't think anything the Loroi did or didn't do make them the opponents of the Umiak. They're just in their way, and pretty clearly the Umiak were Imperialistic to start with, just as, more or less, the Loroi were.

It's a routine clash of Empires, not ideologies. Both deserve the other because it's largely inevitable that one Empire will encounter another, and clash with it.

Seems to be so... gives a greater possibility for making peace even though both sides have become genocidal.

This I know, a war of ideology ends in a bloodbath... that is honestly the most lethal kind of war I know of.... since the only way to kill an idea is to literally squash all who have it.

[Arioch]

"'Deserve's' got nothin' to do with it." - William Munny

[spacewhale]

"'Deserve's' got nothin' to do with it." - William Munny

They just wanted to build their house hive arcologies, Arioch.

[Keklas Rekobah]

To me, "Deserve" implies some form of willful retribution or judgement by a higher authority, much like Pharoah's Egypt "deserved" the 10 plagues (esp. #8: "A Plague of Locusts").

[Bamax]

To me, "Deserve" implies some form of willful retribution or judgement by a higher authority, much like Pharoah's Egypt "deserved" the 10 plagues (esp. #8: "A Plague of Locusts").

Nope... I hate to skirt the line of stuff that should not be talked about.... but I had in my mind specifically religious organizations which withold information from law enforcement that would convict sex offenders within their own organization.

No 'higher authority' involved exacting the retribution other than the victims, the courts, and law enforcement.

[Demarquis]

See, if the Loroi would just do the work assigned to them like all the other reasonable species the Umiak have befriended, there would never have had to be any war at all.

[Bamax]

The Umiak are at least tactically a deserving enemy... at least if viewing matters through the vaunted view of a B5 Shadow that viewed survival of the fittest through war as the ultimate ongoing goal in life for all civilizations.

The war certainly has forced the Loroi to adjust and improve at war and kicking alien butt in general.


Amusingly there are a number of enemies from other franchises that the Loroi would not deserve at all... at least from a storytelling perspective.

1. The Goauld. Because if SG1 can bring them down the Loroi would stomp all over them sooner or later. Not necessarily through ship to ship battles but sheer infiltration and taking over Goauld ships and using them against each other. Which is laughably easy too.

2. The Borg. Because either the Loroi have no chance or they would stomp after severe losses. Pretty predictable outcomes.

3. Other Star Trek Villain races: Unlike the Borg they send more than one ship, which frankly won't end well for the Loroi since they would be severly outclassed.

It's one thing to gank a borh cube. Quite another to deal with a star fleet from star trek.

[Keklas Rekobah]

To me, "Deserve" implies some form of willful retribution or judgement by a higher authority, much like Pharoah's Egypt "deserved" the 10 plagues (esp. #8: "A Plague of Locusts").

Nope... I hate to skirt the line of stuff that should not be talked about.... but I had in my mind specifically religious organizations which withold information from law enforcement that would convict sex offenders within their own organization.  No 'higher authority' involved exacting the retribution other than the victims, the courts, and law enforcement.

"Plague of Locusts" was a reference to the Umiaks' bug-like anatomy.  In a sense, they are like locusts, ravaging the ecologies of every world they subjugate.

[Keklas Rekobah]

The Umiak are at least tactically a deserving enemy... at least if viewing matters through the vaunted view of a B5 Shadow that viewed survival of the fittest through war as the ultimate ongoing goal in life for all civilizations.  The war certainly has forced the Loroi to adjust and improve at war and kicking alien butt in general.  Amusingly there are a number of enemies from other franchises that the Loroi would not deserve at all... at least from a storytelling perspective.

1. The Goauld. Because if SG1 can bring them down the Loroi would stomp all over them sooner or later. Not necessarily through ship to ship battles but sheer infiltration and taking over Goauld ships and using them against each other. Which is laughably easy too.

2. The Borg. Because either the Loroi have no chance or they would stomp after severe losses. Pretty predictable outcomes.

3. Other Star Trek Villain races: Unlike the Borg they send more than one ship, which frankly won't end well for the Loroi since they would be severely outclassed.

It's one thing to gank a Borg cube. Quite another to deal with a Star Fleet from Star Trek.

The Goa'uld primtas would likely find Loroi biochemistry incompatible with, if not deadly to their own.

Borg nanites would have to adapt to Loroi biology, which should take no more than a few fatalities to accomplish.

Would warp drive fields act as interdiction zones for hyperspace jumps?  We may never know.

[Demarquis]

The Umiak deserve the Borg.

The Loroi deserve the Eldar.

The Historians deserve the Culture.

The Empire from Starwars deserve the Umiak.

The Federation deserves the Loroi.

SG5 deserves the Cylons.

[Bamax]

The Umiak deserve the Borg.

The Loroi deserve the Eldar.

The Historians deserve the Culture.

The Empire from Starwars deserve the Umiak.

The Federation deserves the Loroi.

SG5 deserves the Cylons.

Borg vs the shells is unfair... even the Loroi would fair better. Beating them is not as simple as throwing fleets at them usually... since their shields adapt fast.

Unless they can kill it before it adapts.... and that is unlikely in a first encounter dince they will want to know what they are dealing with and typically borg are not easy to blow up anyway.

The Eldar vs the Loroi is.... kinda unfair for the Loroi... I only have a cursory knowledge of them but their whole universe is ridiculous anyway.

The cuture vs the historians would be.... not an encounter the Historians would want. I honestly think the Umiak would give the culture more trouble. Historians do not seem tp have big taste for war.

Yeah... I lose no sleep if the Umiak steamroll the Imperials.... they are both bad guys, but at least the Umiak are true aliens rsther than generic humans.. so I root for them.

Federation vs Loroi won't be for the Loroi at all unless we are talking very early era.

Star Trek tech is just ridiculous.

[gaerzi]

The Umiak deserve the Borg.

The Loroi deserve the Eldar.

The Historians deserve the Culture.

The Empire from Starwars deserve the Umiak.

The Federation deserves the Loroi.

SG5 deserves the Cylons.

And who deserves the Instrumentality of Mankind?

[avatar576]

The Umiak deserve the Borg.

The Loroi deserve the Eldar.

The Historians deserve the Culture.

The Empire from Starwars deserve the Umiak.

The Federation deserves the Loroi.

SG5 deserves the Cylons.

I was thinking the Umiak and the Dominion deserve each other. Tech differences notwithstanding, what happens when the strategy of both sides is to just throw hordes upon hordes of mass-produced cannon fodder at each other?

[Demarquis]

I was really thinking more in terms of karma anyway. Each race is threatened by another race that is most like them, except more so!

No one deserves the Instrumentality, except maybe the Lensmen.

[Jagged]

I don't think anything the Loroi did or didn't do make them the opponents of the Umiak.

As far as we know!

[G. Janssen]

I don't think anything the Loroi did or didn't do make them the opponents of the Umiak.

As far as we know!

Nobody deserves to suffer an infestation of giant communist space termites. Not even a militaristic and somewhat imperialist society of combat hungry hyper feminists with a superiority complex.

[Demarquis]

I think they are destined to be friends.

"And it turned out that the real treasure was the war we fought along the way!"