Well, I am aware of research that indicates that when we decide to move our arm, the signal to do so originates outside of the pre-frontal cortex (where conscious thought takes place). The motor signal actually arrives at the arm a fraction of a second *before* we consciously think the decision to move it.
Unless you're talking about a subconscious movement like a flight response or a reflex action, that doesn't make any sense.
Still true though. Which is why some researchers make the (quite frankly scary) suggestion that our consciousness is just a charade that happens after the fact
I'm aware that a lot of our decision making is strongly influenced by unconscious processes, and I'm also aware that most of our motor functions run on local neural processes more than explicit conscious commands. But if I'm sitting in a chair and I decide that I need to get up and go do something, to say that the nerve signals to start motor function arrive before I've made the decision to move (which is what Demarquis appears to be saying) is to claim that nerve signals travel backwards in time. If you say that this claim is supported by research, I challenge you to specify that research, and I'll pretty much guarantee that such research doesn't actually claim what you purport it does.
As for the suggestion that consciousness is just an illusion (which is not what we were talking about), that sounds more to me like philosophy than science, since science can't clearly define what consciousness is.
But if I'm sitting in a chair and I decide that I need to get up and go do something, to say that the nerve signals to start motor function arrive before I've made the decision to move (which is what Demarquis appears to be saying) is to claim that nerve signals travel backwards in time. If you say that this claim is supported by research, I challenge you to specify that research, and I'll pretty much guarantee that such research doesn't actually claim what you purport it does.
That's not what I was trying to say at all. Its the idea that the bit of our brain that talks to us and pretends to be in the driving seat is not the one making the actual decisions.
It's known as "Libet's Experiment" (https://neurons.ai/blog/news-stories/fr ... xperiment/) and what Jagged and I are telling you is quite accurate. I would add, in addition to what that web page I just linked to reports (in which subjects self-report when they plan to move their fingers) other versions of the experiment use MRI scans to determine exactly when the motor cortex vs. the pre-frontal cortex (where conscious thought occurs) activates, and indeed the motor signal is sent to the arm before the pre-frontal cortex begins processing the decision to do it. Which implies that other regions of our mind than conscious thought have control over our voluntary movements. Some people take this as evidence that free will (actually, they mean conscious agency) is an illusion, and that our conscious decisions to do things are mere post hoc rationalizations of choices made by pre-conscious processes in other areas of the brain. It's worth noting (as the web page does) that this is controversial and that these conclusions have been criticized on various grounds.
It's known as "Libet's Experiment" (https://neurons.ai/blog/news-stories/fr ... xperiment/) and what Jagged and I are telling you is quite accurate. I would add, in addition to what that web page I just linked to reports (in which subjects self-report when they plan to move their fingers) other versions of the experiment use MRI scans to determine exactly when the motor cortex vs. the pre-frontal cortex (where conscious thought occurs) activates, and indeed the motor signal is sent to the arm before the pre-frontal cortex begins processing the decision to do it. Which implies that other regions of our mind than conscious thought have control over our voluntary movements. Some people take this as evidence that free will (actually, they mean conscious agency) is an illusion, and that our conscious decisions to do things are mere post hoc rationalizations of choices made by pre-conscious processes in other areas of the brain. It's worth noting (as the web page does) that this is controversial and that these conclusions have been criticized on various grounds.
I think the true answer is that that the body is designed to act and sense as one, with many automatic features to aid in that.
What you describe as actions not originating with conscious thought are still actions taken by a body with complex sensors and intelligence on even a molecular scale unlike any artificial thing we have ever made.
Not only are we intelligent, but we are hosts of semi-intelligent bacteria.
What am saying is that thought that the human bidy has intelligence gathering and procesding loxated throughout it's organs and not just the brain is not farfected at all, and sounds a lot more reasonable than some metaphysical theory that are thoughts are not real.
