Are Loroi Women Better Than Human Women?

[Bamax]

Despite all Loroi have going for them human ladies beat them in one clear respect. They can reproduce a baby, whereas a man cannot ever make a baby with a Loroi woman.

Beyond all that and the telepathy aspect, everything else is cultural.

All Loroi females unless I am mistaken do what amounts to being a girl scout mixed with Survivor as basic pre-adult education.

What that means is that in general your average Loroi female is far more scrappy and more likely to be able to not only compete with but even win against human males (also as strong as males for their weight).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8FwNpkQrsX4

So ultimately if you want a woman who is just as capable and strong as a guy but STILL a woman, get a Loroi. And accept the fact you will have to adopt if you want kids.

[Snoofman]

Humans might make for good sex for Loroi assuming Loroi like to mate for recreational purposes and not just reproduction.

Only problem with that is that Loroi do not seek intimacy through sex unlike humans. Personally I think there are bound to be Loroi who mate for recreation but that’s aside the point.

Plus Loroi are not monogamists. If we are true to the lore, I don’t think the concept of a committed relationship occurs to them. At best a Loroi might enjoy one night stands or return to a human she is particularly fond of. In fact Loroi consider it unhealthy to return to the same male frequently.

There is also the question of social compatability. Loroi strike me as being more temperamental since they have a history of constant warfare. Im sure some human/loroi relationships would be blissful, but others are bound to end in disaster at the least.

[Bamax]

Humans might make for good sex for Loroi assuming Loroi like to mate for recreational purposes and not just reproduction.

Only problem with that is that Loroi do not seek intimacy through sex unlike humans. Personally I think there are bound to be Loroi who mate for recreation but that’s aside the point.

Plus Loroi are not monogamists. If we are true to the lore, I don’t think the concept of a committed relationship occurs to them. At best a Loroi might enjoy one night stands or return to a human she is particularly fond of. In fact Loroi consider it unhealthy to return to the same male frequently.

There is also the question of social compatability. Loroi strike me as being more temperamental since they have a history of constant warfare. Im sure some human/loroi relationships would be blissful, but others are bound to end in disaster at the least.

Yeah... I miss Janssen's writing because he illustrated the dangerous side of Loroi all too well. One gal (Emerald/AKA Emery for short) decided to teach a Loroi male a lesson for rejecting her friend who commited suicide as a result. She did like Bobbit did to him and would have been executed had her friend not have bailed her out for a dangerous mission to redeem her standing in life.

[Bamax]

And if I had a Loroi I would expect monogamy but would be OK with her donating her eggs for Loroi test tube babies.

And of them all the Loroi I had the biggest crush on was Spiral by far so I would bt default go for her.

Assuming she does not act TOO immature we would be cool.

EDIT: I think you would be better off marrying a Loroi virgin, since they won't be accustomed to sleeping around yet, and they already know they will outlive a human male and can sleep around after they die.

Which Spiral was.

[Arent]

Honestly, a society as advanced as the Loroi should be able to just take skin cells of two people and create a child. Especially because they are in the middle of an attrition war.

Science fiction always underestimates biological & social tech advances. Probably it's more difficult to imagine than just having bigger guns.

To clarify: This is not speculation, *we* have this technology already now, just only in animals.

[Snoofman]

Honestly, a society as advanced as the Loroi should be able to just take skin cells of two people and create a child. Especially because they are in the middle of an attrition war.

Science fiction always underestimates biological & social tech advances. Probably it's more difficult to imagine than just having bigger guns.

To clarify: This is not speculation, *we* have this technology already now, just only in animals.

It could also be a question of ethics. Perhaps the Loroi don’t do it for the same reasons we humans don’t do it.

[Urist]

To be fair, the Loroi are one of those fictional societies that I can actually see *not* researching particularly far in the area of artificial gestation. Their species has the potential to produce as many children 'naturally' as they could possibly want, and most of the traits that they *do* desire (e.g. telekinetics for Teidar, mental strength for Mizol) have been stated by Arioch to defy any genetic explanation.

Couple that with having at least a fair portion of their population strongly believe that "We *are* (or were designed by) the Soia, who clearly knew what they were doing. Why tinker with perfection?" and I could see the field of genetic alteration of their own species being rather unpopular among the Loroi.

[Arent]

To be fair, the Loroi are one of those fictional societies that I can actually see *not* researching particularly far in the area of artificial gestation. Their species has the potential to produce as many children 'naturally' as they could possibly want, and most of the traits that they *do* desire (e.g. telekinetics for Teidar, mental strength for Mizol) have been stated by Arioch to defy any genetic explanation.

Couple that with having at least a fair portion of their population strongly believe that "We *are* (or were designed by) the Soia, who clearly knew what they were doing. Why tinker with perfection?" and I could see the field of genetic alteration of their own species being rather unpopular among the Loroi.

Even if that were the case, we humans already have this tech in 2023. This would mean the Loroi are less advanced in biotech than humanity.

You could maybe argue that they have the tech, but choose not to use it. But in the emergency of a war for pure survival such considerations simply pale.

[Arent]

Honestly, a society as advanced as the Loroi should be able to just take skin cells of two people and create a child. Especially because they are in the middle of an attrition war.

Science fiction always underestimates biological & social tech advances. Probably it's more difficult to imagine than just having bigger guns.

To clarify: This is not speculation, *we* have this technology already now, just only in animals.

It could also be a question of ethics. Perhaps the Loroi don’t do it for the same reasons we humans don’t do it.

I suspect that in 20-30 years homosexuals will start using this tech. & there will be countries that allow it. Soon, some heterosexuals will follow for various reasons.

[Arioch]

Artificial gestation is a lot more difficult than artificial conception. The reproductive system of a sophisticated creature that gives live birth like a human is a very complex machine... the easiest way to replicate it is with another biological system, and that introduces all kinds of additional potential problems (not the least of which are ethical). I'm not sure that a mechanical womb would be a practical thing even at TL10.

One of the reasons that the Umiak can monkey around with their reproductive systems so freely is that they're egg layers; they don't give live birth and so don't need surrogate mothers or womb alternatives.

[Urist]

You could maybe argue that they have the tech, but choose not to use it. But in the emergency of a war for pure survival such considerations simply pale.

The thing is that this sort of genetic manipulation *isn't* useful to the Loroi war effort. They're not losing the war because they lack soldiers; they're lacking *warships*. Massively increasing population growth just leads to either a bunch of extra civilians (minimal help) or a bunch of Soroin sitting around with nothing to do. And if Loroi are anything like Humans, having a bunch of soldiers with nothing but time on their hands is a recipe for trouble...

[QuakeIV]

I think it was said they have personnel shortages, but thats definitely a kindof long-term solution to that

[Arioch]

The Loroi do have shortages of trained personnel, but the bottleneck is not the birth rate, but rather the capacity of education and training infrastructure... and time.

[QuakeIV]

Ah, I did assume there was a shortfall of qualified applicants, in which case hypothetically a larger population would help with that in the long term. If thats not the case then indeed there is truly no point.

[Bamax]

The Loroi do have shortages of trained personnel, but the bottleneck is not the birth rate, but rather the capacity of education and training infrastructure... and time.

As Arioch has said before, the Loroi are running out of time to win the war, and education matters not nor how many students you have if the war is lost, and they are headed toward defeat right now in the story.

That they do not get taken over by the Umiak and wiped out is a solution the story aims to explain. That is essentially the plot of Outsider along with the role of Alex and humanity in it.

Someone or something... probably both, turned a stalemate into a checkmate.

[QuakeIV]

Long term planning probably isn't totally pointless, if they survive the current crisis they will presumably still be at war.

[Bamax]

Long term planning probably isn't totally pointless, if they survive the current crisis they will presumably still be at war.

I am not implying planning for the future does not matter, only that throwing all resources into surviving the current crisis should take priority.

[Arioch]

Within the first year of the war, when it became clear that it would not end quickly, the Loroi began authorizing a massive increase in reproduction; to start with, almost every warrior in good standing was allowed to have an additional child during her next available leave. The government then had to expand child-rearing and education infrastructure to handle the increased load; they could take some time to do this, as the first babies wouldn't become adult for 8 years, but there were new losses and new increased demands along the way and so they were constantly struggling to keep up. Ever since then, the Loroi have attempted to increase capacity where possible, but it's a tradeoff between the needs of the future and the needs of the present, as every experienced warrior that you allocate for teaching is an experienced warrior off the front lines. It can be hard to allocate resources for the future at times when you're losing the war right now. And a nine year old Loroi may be able to fight in an infantry unit, but it takes a bit longer to make her useful aboard a starship.

But what they're not really short on is bodies to have more babies. A Loroi generation is only 8 years, so it's not long before those babies can have babies themselves. There have already been three generations of Loroi born since the start of the war.

[Bamax]

Within the first year of the war, when it became clear that it would not end quickly, the Loroi began authorizing a massive increase in reproduction; to start with, almost every warrior in good standing was allowed to have an additional child during her next available leave. The government then had to expand child-rearing and education infrastructure to handle the increased load; they could take some time to do this, as the first babies wouldn't become adult for 8 years, but there were new losses and new increased demands along the way and so they were constantly struggling to keep up. Ever since then, the Loroi have attempted to increase capacity where possible, but it's a tradeoff between the needs of the future and the needs of the present, as every experienced warrior that you allocate for teaching is an experienced warrior off the front lines. It can be hard to allocate resources for the future at times when you're losing the war right now. And a nine year old Loroi may be able to fight in an infantry unit, but it takes a bit longer to make her useful aboard a starship.

But what they're not really short on is bodies to have more babies. A Loroi generation is only 8 years, so it's not long before those babies can have babies themselves. There have already been three generations of Loroi born since the start of the war.

I know you have already stated before that doing the following would ruin the entire plot of the story, but I cannot help but think how current humanity would deal with the Umiak provided they had the same tech level as the Loroi.

In a war of extermination the one rule is... there ARE no rules. Except don't die and by all means win.

In keeping with that logic we make a space fleet mostly automated. Crewed vessels would be the heart of the fleet and control the rest which would be robot drone battleships.

Therefore you cut your losses of trained battle fleet personnel dramatically, since to reach them you have to cut through an entire fleet to get at them.

Now it has been stated the Historians are uber hackers, so that could explain why crewed vessels are needed to detect and counter it.

But even then, if the amount of crew needed to run a ship were reduced and instead you allocated more space to shield generators or heavy long range weaponry... it might be an improvement over standard Loroi practice.

[Urist]

For what it's worth, Arioch has stated before that unmanned vessels aren't really effective given Outsider-setting technology. Something about the constant (and non-standard) maintenance needed, IIRC. It's why courier ships are still manned by all sides. Similarly, Word of God says that torpedoes are difficult to manufacture in the numbers needed, so smaller drone-craft are likely a non-starter as well.

It's all a result of the setting being what Arioch wanted it to be: one where naval battles are fought between manned ships using their own direct-fire weapons, and every ship lost is a tragedy. The 'feel' of the story would have been quite different if Alexander had been picked up by Tempest, the sole manned ship of SF-51, and the only reaction to Winter Tide going boom had been some Gallen complaining <Aww man, I think I left my favorite set of pliers on that ship!> and maybe remote-ship-operator Nova sitting around twiddling her thumbs for the rest of the battle.