The Current State of Human Technology

[Trantor]

What´s a hot dog compared to immortality?

You won´t be remembered for a 9 to 5 job.

unless that 9 to 5 job is to conquer the earth!

Just earth? That´s so ´39. WE`re here to conquer the UNIVERSE!

[NOMAD]

maybe, whats the series, never seen it ?

Spaceship Agga Ruter.

thanks Arioch, now it make sense

[Atomic]

Why this fixation on using an incorrect description of entanglement for communications? Saying "it's fictional" doesn't justify it, you can come up with any random thing as an explanation or avoid explaining it at all, and never have any problems with contradicting known physics. Why must it be quantum entanglement? Apart from spreading and reinforcing a misconception of how the physics works, it relies on an effect that readers who understand the physics know doesn't exist.

Because, you know, Quantum Physics, from my very own point of experience, has consistently chewed on all previously set on stone conceptions, threw them out of the window, gave them a wedgie and stole their lunch. It's the appeal of it. And If you can't forgive this heresy, I'd rather not ask about the Loroi's psychic powers to you...

And tachyons would be grossly overused at this point in fiction, mind.

[Mayhem]

Why this fixation on using an incorrect description of entanglement for communications? Saying "it's fictional" doesn't justify it, you can come up with any random thing as an explanation or avoid explaining it at all, and never have any problems with contradicting known physics. Why must it be quantum entanglement? Apart from spreading and reinforcing a misconception of how the physics works, it relies on an effect that readers who understand the physics know doesn't exist.

Because, you know, Quantum Physics, from my very own point of experience, has consistently chewed on all previously set on stone conceptions, threw them out of the window, gave them a wedgie and stole their lunch. It's the appeal of it. And If you can't forgive this heresy, I'd rather not ask about the Loroi's psychic powers to you...

My issue (& Mjolnir's I believe) is the nails on chalk board effect of the casual misuse of known Physics.

Inventing the Foo effect as discovered by Dr. Bar (do correctly) is merely a suspension of disbelief regarding as of yet undiscovered scientific theory, whereas misrepresenting current theory is grating.

Just like TV shows screwing up computers, (e.g. encryption and hacking) and so on also makes me twitch.

The Loroi's psychic powers are fine as there has been no attempt to explain the theoretical basis but instead has focused on enumerating the empirical properties.

[bunnyboy]

My issue (& Mjolnir's I believe) is the nails on chalk board effect of the casual misuse of known Physics.

Inventing the Foo effect as discovered by Dr. Bar (do correctly) is merely a suspension of disbelief regarding as of yet undiscovered scientific theory, whereas misrepresenting current theory is grating.

You are saying that everything works better without midi-chlorians?

[Trantor]

Because, you know, Quantum Physics, from my very own point of experience, has consistently chewed on all previously set on stone conceptions, threw them out of the window, gave them a wedgie and stole their lunch. It's the appeal of it. And If you can't forgive this heresy, I'd rather not ask about the Loroi's psychic powers to you...

My issue (& Mjolnir's I believe) is the nails on chalk board effect of the casual misuse of known Physics.

I can follow you, but remember that we´re still far away from universal knowledge.

[Trantor]

You are saying that everything works better without midi-chlorians?

Depends on the universe.

BTW: This "midichlorian"-thingy is one of the most disappointing concepts ever. "The more dirt in your blood, the mightier you are"?
Sure...

That´s why i prefer sf with more sophisticated world-design.

[Mjolnir]

Because, you know, Quantum Physics, from my very own point of experience, has consistently chewed on all previously set on stone conceptions, threw them out of the window, gave them a wedgie and stole their lunch. It's the appeal of it. And If you can't forgive this heresy, I'd rather not ask about the Loroi's psychic powers to you...

It's not heresy, it's just wrong. As in factually incorrect. It's also lazy and unimaginative, completely unnecessary, and to some degree actively harmful to peoples' understanding of the world.

Loroi abilities are not explained using some broken understanding of real physics. There's nothing in common between Loroi psi and the writing practices I'm objecting to.

And tachyons would be grossly overused at this point in fiction, mind.

If anything, they're both more justifiable and less commonly used than quantum entanglement. Tachyons are any particles that might ever be discovered that travel faster than light, not some specific hypothetical particle or physical phenomenon. New physics might give us tachyons, it won't ever make the typical explanation of entanglement as the basis of FTL comms true.

I can follow you, but remember that we´re still far away from universal knowledge.

Who's saying otherwise? The fact that we don't know everything doesn't mean we don't know anything, and I'm saying specifically that unknown physics is a much better approach than an explanation that directly contradicts or severely mangles what we do know.

BTW: This "midichlorian"-thingy is one of the most disappointing concepts ever. "The more dirt in your blood, the mightier you are"?
Sure... :roll:

They seemed fairly obviously a parallel to mitochondria, not dirt. Still, it's an unsatisfactory and unnecessary answer to a question nobody was asking.

[icekatze]

hi hi

Its like making a sci-fi about a spaceship that has to overcome the steadily increasing gravity as it flies to the moon, because you know gravity has to be stronger the farther you go, otherwise it could never hold onto something as big as the moon.

Wrong physics.

[Paragon]

Okaaaay....

sooo...

Let's talk about pets, from the future!

What new and interesting variations of traditional pets, or entirely new pets, do you think the next hundred years, space exploration, and the advanced technology that comes with those things will bring us?

I'm hoping for cybernetic hamsters. Maybe domesticated sea cows?

Or we could talk about what future music might sound like! Or movies and books are about! Or sports!

Really, anything that gets people to stop having boring unfunny arguments over physics that this thread isn't even supposed to be about anyway.

Seriously please, stop getting butthurt over physics or people calling your ideas unrealistic. Go have internet slap fight somewhere else. Thank you.

[CptWinters]

Really, anything that gets people to stop having boring unfunny arguments over physics that this thread isn't even supposed to be about anyway.

Seriously please, stop getting butthurt over physics or people calling your ideas unrealistic. Go have internet slap fight somewhere else. Thank you.

You haven't been here very long, have you?

Besides, is it unreasonable to ask that a world - even if it is a science fiction setting - follow its own consistent laws? Or that those laws not violate what we know to be true about the mechanics of reality?

[fredgiblet]

an unsatisfactory and unnecessary answer to a question nobody was asking.

The prequels, summarized.

[Mjolnir]

Its like making a sci-fi about a spaceship that has to overcome the steadily increasing gravity as it flies to the moon, because you know gravity has to be stronger the farther you go, otherwise it could never hold onto something as big as the moon.

Or an innocent star collapsing into an all-consuming black hole...the gravity being the worry, not the massive explosion. Or like traveling at "lightspeed" from star to star in hours. Or a high-gravity prison on the surface of a gas giant. Or doing gravitational slingshots around planets at velocities where you travel across the system in days or hours (or even minutes). Or electromagnetic acceleration being a huge advance for weapons because of the lack of recoil. Or the rather strange and oddly common idea that gravity is due to air pressure.

Or that those laws not violate what we know to be true about the mechanics of reality?

It's not even that...some form of FTL is required in Outsider, for example, or the story would be impossible to tell without a completely different setting, and the real universe certainly appears to be one without FTL phenomena. Some settings clearly have their own sets of rules that don't have anything to do with our reality. What irritates me is nonsense masquerading as real world physics, like the quantum entanglement FTL communication, based on a detailed and quite wrong description of a real physical phenomenon.

[CptWinters]

It's not even that...some form of FTL is required in Outsider, for example, or the story would be impossible to tell without a completely different setting, and the real universe certainly appears to be one without FTL phenomena. Some settings clearly have their own sets of rules that don't have anything to do with our reality. What irritates me is nonsense masquerading as real world physics, like the quantum entanglement FTL communication, based on a detailed and quite wrong description of a real physical phenomenon.

I agree; I didn't mean to imply otherwise. Creating an FTL "jump device" or something like the Loroi mental ability makes science-fiction interesting and fun, but when an author justifies it via some piece of physics or biology or what-have-you that I know doesn't work that way... that's when it starts to break down - for me, at least.

[Atomic]

Because, you know, Quantum Physics, from my very own point of experience, has consistently chewed on all previously set on stone conceptions, threw them out of the window, gave them a wedgie and stole their lunch. It's the appeal of it. And If you can't forgive this heresy, I'd rather not ask about the Loroi's psychic powers to you...

It's not heresy, it's just wrong. As in factually incorrect. It's also lazy and unimaginative, completely unnecessary, and to some degree actively harmful to peoples' understanding of the world.

Loroi abilities are not explained using some broken understanding of real physics. There's nothing in common between Loroi psi and the writing practices I'm objecting to.

And tachyons would be grossly overused at this point in fiction, mind.

If anything, they're both more justifiable and less commonly used than quantum entanglement. Tachyons are any particles that might ever be discovered that travel faster than light, not some specific hypothetical particle or physical phenomenon. New physics might give us tachyons, it won't ever make the typical explanation of entanglement as the basis of FTL comms true.

Dude, from my point of view, Quantum Physics in itself is harmful to the understanding of the world. I will from now on avoid such hot topic again, I don't want to bring a Paper-worthy discussion here.(although I do wonder if we would get to the n-branes level).

A question of flavour, really. I only add that as a self-made joke on how everytime real physics is broken, there's a quantum phenomena behind it. (Or a black hole).

[Aygar]

The bell inequalities show that Non-Local phenomena must exist using quantum entanglement. Non-Local phenomena may allow for useful and causality problem free FTL communication and transport. Thus the confusion.

[Atomic]

The bell inequalities show that Non-Local phenomena must exist using quantum entanglement. Non-Local phenomena may allow for useful and causality problem free FTL communication and transport. Thus the confusion.

Hmm. I'm ashamed to admit that i've gotten rusty at this since I left High Energy studies. Add that that i'm more or less foreign. Yeah, that was the term i was looking for.

On another thought,

Is it me or the way hyperjumps are described allow for hyperspace "ballistic" shots?

[Aygar]

Is it me or the way hyperjumps are described allow for hyperspace "ballistic" shots?

They do allow for "ballistic" shots through hyperspace.

If that does not answer your question please rephrase your question.

[Paragon]

Really, anything that gets people to stop having boring unfunny arguments over physics that this thread isn't even supposed to be about anyway.

Seriously please, stop getting butthurt over physics or people calling your ideas unrealistic. Go have internet slap fight somewhere else. Thank you.

You haven't been here very long, have you?

Besides, is it unreasonable to ask that a world - even if it is a science fiction setting - follow its own consistent laws? Or that those laws not violate what we know to be true about the mechanics of reality?

To your first question, no I haven't.

To your second question, that's completely reasonable. It's also not what this thread is supposed to be about. Like, at all. I also don't think it's unreasonable for people to talk about what the original poster made the thread about. If Mjolnir wants to correct people on common misconceptions about real world physics that are commonly misrepresented in science fiction, then is it unreasonable to ask that he go make a thread about that instead? i don't think it is, since making a thread takes all of one minute to do. Really, the off-topic derails going on here would be no different than if I went into one of the RP threads and posted page after page on the changes in English literature between the time of Shakespeare and the writing of Robinson Crusoe.

[Arioch]

This board isn't busy enough to keep dozens of threads active at one time, so I don't have a problem when threads drift a bit in terms of topic. If a thread on Loroi technology turns into a three-page pissing match about Warhammer 40,000, that's potental cause for a thread split. But I don't see any problem having a discussion about the nature of technology in fiction in a thread about technology.

Let's please try to give each other a bit of leeway in the discussions here.