Page 86

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Tash
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Re: Page 86

Post by Tash »

osmium wrote: 2) they're mostly out of gas, if the superheavies are dead in the water perhaps that first joust was an attempt to scare them out of the system to allow resupply in.

-O
That seems like an unwise thing to admit, though, given a ship that can't move or maneuver is one that will never get into plasma focus range, while the Loroi leisurely bombard it. That would be a substantial coup, both in fleet numbers and in propaganda, given that entire gigantic fleet would become a big, floating target.

I'd say it's probably a stalling tactic of some kind, and if they are trying to surround the 51st, I cannot wait to see the breakout attempt. <3

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dfacto
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Re: Page 86

Post by dfacto »

2) A fleet of human super-heavies jumps in directly on top of the Umiak fleet, broadcasts The Immigrant Song on all frequencies and proceeds to decimate them before inviting the Loroi back for a massive celebration kegger on Aldea. Brewskies and Blue Space Elves for everyone!
No, this shows up playing jaunty oldschool anime music.

Image

On a more serious note, I have to admit that the situation would go from bad to impossibly bad if the Umiak also have some crew members. One way or another both the Umiak and Loroi will learn of Earth's coordinates, and then it would be a race to see who can get there first. And then of course it's on. In all likelihood Earth's immediate neighborhood would become a dead zone like the Steppes in a matter of a decade.

It puts Alex and whoever is on the Umiak ships in a really bad situation. Just blab and hope your new allies can prevent the worst case scenario, or wait to be interrogated, and hope your new "allies" can prevent the worst case scenario.

dex drako
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Re: Page 86

Post by dex drako »

this thing some of you guys have with the bugs caring about loroi meeting humans or even knowing about humans makes no sense to me at all.

nothing in the story has even hinted at this possibility or even a reason why. sure we know humans are invisible to loroi far seers but there should be no way for the bug to know this. So at this point humans are kind of meaningless to anyone but the people that want to disprove the Loroi clams of being Soia.

and the basicly set up of the story make live human contact of anyone but alex with either side an impossibility. the story is about how Alex effects things not how the human race as a whole effects the war. if ANY other human shows up they will out rank him and would push Alex out of the spot light.

don't get me wrong the bugs maybe intrerested in the but only because the loroi are hanging around it not because they care about the humans it carried.

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manticore7
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Re: Page 86

Post by manticore7 »

I figured that the Umiak don't put much emphasis on Asthetics as much as the Loroi do which is why their interiors look so spars. as someone else stated I think we are going to be seeing Tempo in the lime light in the next few comics and I suspect Stillstorm is goingt to have a few choice words of her own.
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AndrewCrisp
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Re: Page 86

Post by AndrewCrisp »

dex drako wrote:nothing in the story has even hinted at this possibility or even a reason why. sure we know humans are invisible to loroi far seers but there should be no way for the bug to know this. So at this point humans are kind of meaningless to anyone but the people that want to disprove the Loroi clams of being Soia.
Not necessarily - at least not meaningless in a strategic sense. I'd have to read over the Umiak notes on the Insider to be sure, but it's safe to say the Umiak have different sensor/early warning systems in place than the Loroi farseer. So there's a good chance that, while the Loroi were blinded and engaged in battle, the main Umiak fleet spotted the Bellarmine, determined it was neither Loroi (or their allies) or Umiak, and blasted it to scrap.

Even knowing absolutely nothing about humans, from the Umiak perspective a new starfaring race represents a threat, an unknown variable. They have no way of knowing the pedigree of ship they just took out: it could have been a scout, an obsolete barge, a pirate vessel, or the finest flower of human might. So until the Umiak learn more about this unknown race (and hence to determine the actual threat said race may or may not present), it is in their interest to prevent said race from (a) returning with possible intel on Umiak strength, numbers, and tactics, and/or (b) coming into contact with the Loroi.

However, their plan went awry when the Loroi found the wreck. Again, from the Umiak perspective, they have no way of knowing what the Loroi have recovered. It could just be scattered fragments of strange alloys, but it could also be intact records (including a possible route to the homeworld of the unknowns), corpses, and possibly survivors. Although, if the Loroi picked up Alex's ramblings, it's a safe bet the Umiak did as well, and so the chances of a living representative being aboard a Loroi ship go up exponentially.

Before, I think, the Umiak would have just pressed the attack, and be happy with ripping the Loroi apart, even if some Loroi ships manage to escape. But now, they can't afford to let *any* Loroi ships out of the Naam system. Any surviving enemy ship could carry the survivor and/or news of this new race out to Loroi high command - which can ultimately translate to a new alien race joining the Loroi against the Umiak, throwing all their larger strategic plans into the waste disposal. This leads me to my personal theory about this request for communication: it's simply to buy time while the Umiak target each enemy ship and then launch one massive barrage.

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icekatze
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Re: Page 86

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

Even if you are looking at it from a narrative viewpoint, saying that the Umiak found the tanker ship would really cut Alex off entirely. However, since I'm trying not to look at this from a narrative point of view, and it seems likely to me that they are calling on the telephone because they want something from the Loroi, something they can't get just by blasting them to bits.

dfacto
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Re: Page 86

Post by dfacto »

@Andrew

Possible, but the Umiak strike me as solid and practical in their approach. They'd have no good reason to destroy an unknown and inferior vessel, and far more reason to contact/capture it for study. If the Umiak's modus operandi was to waste anyone who isn't them, the Orgus would have certainly known about it. That kind of introduction tends to stick with people (or races).

http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider006.html

From that page, the shots that crippled the Bellarmine were from absurdly close range (60 km, in space!). Someone was taking a good close look and decided the Bellarmine had to go. I'm betting on Historians (or Barsam? Maybe they wanted to take Alex with them for a trip out the airlock? Probably not, but they are stated to have their own agenda).

And just to clutch at straws, the ship in the screen in the top left looks only vaguely like Umiak ships in the 300 meter range. Only 3 lights, and very smooth in form.
Last edited by dfacto on Tue May 10, 2011 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ktrain
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Re: Page 86

Post by Ktrain »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

Even if you are looking at it from a narrative viewpoint, saying that the Umiak found the tanker ship would really cut Alex off entirely. However, since I'm trying not to look at this from a narrative point of view, and it seems likely to me that they are calling on the telephone because they want something from the Loroi, something they can't get just by blasting them to bits.
Maybe they need a cup of sugar...

Dfacto, I don't see what ship you are referencing on page seven, all I see is light. But plot wise it would be interesting if neither the Ums or Lors were responsible for the Bellarmine's destruction.
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dfacto
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Re: Page 86

Post by dfacto »

Ktrain wrote:
icekatze wrote:Dfacto, I don't see what ship you are referencing on page seven, all I see is light. But plot wise it would be interesting if neither the Ums or Lors were responsible for the Bellarmine's destruction.
Sorry, got the next page on accident. Check again.

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Rosen_Ritter_1
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Re: Page 86

Post by Rosen_Ritter_1 »

dex drako wrote:this thing some of you guys have with the bugs caring about loroi meeting humans or even knowing about humans makes no sense to me at all.

nothing in the story has even hinted at this possibility or even a reason why. sure we know humans are invisible to loroi far seers but there should be no way for the bug to know this. So at this point humans are kind of meaningless to anyone but the people that want to disprove the Loroi clams of being Soia.

and the basicly set up of the story make live human contact of anyone but alex with either side an impossibility. the story is about how Alex effects things not how the human race as a whole effects the war. if ANY other human shows up they will out rank him and would push Alex out of the spot light.

don't get me wrong the bugs maybe intrerested in the but only because the loroi are hanging around it not because they care about the humans it carried.
OTOH, we don't have much else to explain why the Umiak would ring the Loroi up. This is a xenocidal war between two warriors species. The Loroi would laugh off demands of surrender in even the most hopeless of situations (which the 51st isn't in, since they can still technically retreat), since they know that at best it'd end with their brains in a jar getting picked for secrets.

The only reason the Umiak would conceivably call a time out is in relation to the wreck of that primitive 3rd party ship they're compulsively hovering over and defending. I wouldn't go so far to say the Umiak know who the humans are particularly (their uncanny resemblance to Loroi, the Lotai), but it does seem strange that the Umiak would show this level of restraint just for a random 3rd party in the middle of a battle considering how they treated the Orgus.

Though perhaps this is merely a matter of Umiak high command put the acquisition new potential vassal allies for war materials/ports to flank the Loroi from that this scout ship represents a high priority.

Suttrjac
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Re: Page 86

Post by Suttrjac »

There's an interesting word choice by the Umiak commander. He says it's appropiate/necessary to request the engaging of communications, doesn't say why. We can assume (and we can be wrong possibly) it's not because there's a personal acquaintance between the two fleet commanders otherwise this commander probably would have greeted Stillstorm. But if we take the former translation, appropiate (which if the insider is to be trusted correlates with Umiak social behavior as being polite), the commander may be attempting to establish a dialogue with Jardin, as he can now be considered an introductory race of the war, this may very well be the Umiak's way of welcoming him and his species to it.

Perhaps they're hedging on the bet that he is as self-sacrificial as they are (and some of us are). They give him the opportunity to ally his species with the Umiak obviously at the cost of his life and well that's about as far as my deducing can take me.

It doesn't seem plausible but I thought it an interesting postulation.

BattleRaptor
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Re: Page 86

Post by BattleRaptor »

5 ships were sent.. its possible another ship made contact with the UMIAK.
It maybe the Umiak are attempting to negoiate some kind of exchange for the Terran Wreck.. as a sign of good faith as later providing it as evidence of a Loroi attack.

Or it could just be that Girl that was with Alex survived and is onboard the Umiak ship.

Rem Ruin
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Re: Page 86

Post by Rem Ruin »

I doubt the Umiak are calling due to knowledge of humans or any survivors the Loroi may have. Nor do I think it would be demands of surrender(because its something the Loroi aren't ever likely to do) or even to gloat(given Umiak ingrained humility).

Personally I can really only come up with a couple possibilities: The Umiak want the Loroi to step away from the derelict without destroying it. An offer(lie) not to make a retreat from the system difficult in exchange for leaving the derelict intact to study seems a deal that has at least a very slim chance of working. They might just want to Loroi to take a message back to their empire though I admit to not knowing what shape the message would take. Perhaps the Umiak just wishes to talk renowned officer to renowned officer( I'm assuming the Umiak is of note) before continued engagement or to attempt to gain a reaction from the Loroi in regards to the junk they are protecting, perhaps Still Storm and '27' know each other.

As for the question of what use would a derelict 3rd party vessel would be it could provide a treasure trove of information either about another race, jump routes and locations, new technology, etc. The main part is to distinguish a new 3rd party ship from a new ship of a known party, a ship from a known party that you might not have much information on(both options which could still provide tactical value) and a true 3rd party ship. The Loroi's interest in the derelict and willingness to stand the field when attacked would seem to indicate that there is something very interesting there.

BattleRaptor
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Re: Page 86

Post by BattleRaptor »

On page 60
did anyone else pick up on when Alex tells the Captain that they were attacked by a highpowered beam weapon.. and that he saw it and it was a green colour.

and the CAPTAIN looks immedately at the Historian with squinted eyes.
The Historian then states in response "that is not exactly precise intelligence"

Page 60 if you are wondering.

Maybe the Umiak are damaged.. and maybe the 2 Loroi fleets lossed presviously in the system were infact not to the Umiak.. and the Umiaks current fleet is actually there because they have been losing fleets aswell.

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Ktrain
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Re: Page 86

Post by Ktrain »

Just a note, looking at p79 http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider079.html and p7 and p12 http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider012.html

The beams do appear to have the same color, but I might need someone with a better sense of color to judge.
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Karst45
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Re: Page 86

Post by Karst45 »

osmium wrote:2) they're mostly out of gas, if the superheavies are dead in the water perhaps that first joust was an attempt to scare them out of the system to allow resupply in.

-O
could be, i never envisaged that option. That could explain why they are just drifting.
@Tash they are not going to admit it, nor do they need to, they only need to scare them, so maybe they will ask for something unimportant or be destroys, so the loroi will take the option of running away.
dex drako wrote:humans are kind of meaningless to anyone but the people that want to disprove the Loroi clams of being Soia.
Like the Umiak? Most of the loroi propaganda is about them being Soia decendant (or what ever) as a point of them being superior to the Umiak. Also most of the Loroi Allie will be shaken to see proof that the loroi lied. what else do the loroi would be hiding they will think.

And that something they can see from analysing an human (dead or alive)

Other reason for the contact:

1) they actually are a migrant fleet formed by the rebel of the many umiak occuped planet.
2) They were contacted by time traveler and need to end this war to face a bigger treat "the Reaper"
3) The Umiak is actually a veteran who like to boast and will show Human/loroi mutilated body to destroy the loroi moral.
4) Because Why the hell not? maybe thing have changed since the last 40 year of war (correct me on the date am too lazy to check)
5) They want to know who keep sending them those "enlarge your penis adds" though the Hyper-network and also "what the hell is a penis and why do it need enlargment"

Tash
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Re: Page 86

Post by Tash »

Karst45 wrote:@Tash they are not going to admit it, nor do they need to, they only need to scare them, so maybe they will ask for something unimportant or be destroys, so the loroi will take the option of running away.
Aha, potentially, but it is generally better to say nothing than to say something which may tip your hand, especially against a seasoned commander. If you're just sitting there in your phalanx of warships, saying and doing nothing, how unnerving would that be? More importantly, what would it make the enemy think, whether it unnerves them or not?
Karst45 wrote:2) They were contacted by time traveler and need to end this war to face a bigger treat "the Reaper"
Ha! Joke's on the Reapers, kinetic barriers won't stop blasters or plasma foci. ;3

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Re: Page 86

Post by fredgiblet »

Karst45 wrote:could be, i never envisaged that option. That could explain why they are just drifting.
Nah, they're drifting because aren't yet ready to attack.
Like the Umiak?
Like some of the Barsam, note Mozin's reaction to Alex's appearance, Mozin isn't a fan of the Loroi.
Most of the loroi propaganda is about them being Soia decendant (or what ever) as a point of them being superior to the Umiak. Also most of the Loroi Allie will be shaken to see proof that the loroi lied. what else do the loroi would be hiding they will think.
The Loroi didn't lie, they assumed, they just assumed wrong. That is unless we later meet up with Greywind or something and she says that they've known about humans all along. Also, not just the Umiak, superior to everyone.

BattleRaptor
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Re: Page 86

Post by BattleRaptor »

ME barriers stop all particles with mass, only lasers penetrate.

Voitan
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Re: Page 86

Post by Voitan »

Insider on Weapons Tech and Tactics wrote:The idea behind the plasma focus (or plasma beam) is that you have some mechanism for focusing plasma into a tight beam over very long distances. I imagine some sort of "carrier wave" that accomplishes this long-range cohesion... here we're talking pretty high tech, even for the aliens, so only the Umiak and Historians have really mastered this technique.
Ever since this article showed up, Historians for me were suspect #1.

Also, it's funny as heck if you take Jardin's last angry call. It's like he knew who attacked him...

Which is what the Historians will think once they get a translation of his message he made before being picked up by the Loroi.

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