A Confused Argument About Gender (split thread)

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Trantor
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Trantor »

Looks like MILF-Con today. 8-)
sapere aude.

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Ktrain
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Ktrain »

No wonder there are no women on here :roll:
OUTSIDER UPDATE => HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED?

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Trantor
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

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Ktrain wrote:No wonder there are no women on here :roll:
´cause they can´t stand competition with the space-elves? 8-)
sapere aude.

NOMAD
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by NOMAD »

Trantor wrote:
Ktrain wrote:No wonder there are no women on here :roll:
´cause they can´t stand competition with the space-elves? 8-)
slaps to back of the head ( repeatedly see below)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqMUuOPsa0o

on further note, I like this version of the Vanguards Captain , shows the loroi can also be very simple in their hair styles. ( and she does look inspired by Claudia Black . . . Arioch were you a farscape fan ?
I am a wander, going from place to place without a home I am a NOMAD

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Solemn »

Trantor wrote:´cause they can´t stand competition with the space-elves?
What? Competition over what, exactly? Is this forum offering some fabulous cash reward for pointiest ears?


Some Fans wrote:Hey Arioch, why have you made all the Loroi so attractive? Is there some "no plain girls allowed" policy in the Loroi Navy?
Other Fans wrote:Hey Arioch, you should've used this old design instead of your final version, it looks more attractive and cute.
Some Fans wrote:Hey Arioch, why haven't you given us a pinup yet?
More Fans wrote:Hey, let's joke about Loroi psychic panties for a while.
Other Fans wrote:Arioch, this pinup art is way too racy.
Some Fans wrote:Hey Arioch, you've made the Loroi look too perfect, they're too clearly the good guys.
Other Fans wrote:Hey Arioch, you've made the Loroi look too vindictive and malicious to survive for long as an empire.
Yet More Fans wrote:Hey Arioch, stopping to negotiate made the Umiak look too reasonable.
Still Other Fans wrote:Hey Arioch, you've made the Umiak look unreasonably oppressive and malevolent in the Insider article.
Image

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by junk »

Trantor wrote:
Ktrain wrote:No wonder there are no women on here :roll:
´cause they can´t stand competition with the space-elves? 8-)
But humans have the benefit of having Crichton and his HUMANS ARE SUPERIOR on their side :)

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Trantor
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Trantor »

Solemn wrote:
Trantor wrote:´cause they can´t stand competition with the space-elves?
What? Competition over what, exactly? Is this forum offering some fabulous cash reward for pointiest ears?
No, that was just meant as a sarcastic, neanderthalian jibe of mine on the cognitive dissonance of most girls.

E.g.:
They see themself like this:
Image

but reality bites...
SpoilerShow
Image
And the tragic is, that on the other side many of the really cute girls have too low self-esteem cause they think they´re not cute enough.

...
That, and that SF and black humor aren´t normally girl-thingys. :mrgreen:
sapere aude.

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junk
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by junk »

Trantor wrote:
...
That, and that SF and black humor aren´t normally girl-thingys. :mrgreen:
You'd be surprised. Maybe not black humour but SF the moment it went away from the old space opera venues is very much filled with female fans.

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Fotiadis_110 »

My understanding of the female fandom, is the common female fangirl will flock to whatever comic they can appeal to the emotions and feelings shown within, thus they tend to like badly written books which take three pages to explain how good holding hands feel, and tend to dislike or ignore other books which explain the world around them in an amusing manner.

Honestly? There are female readers out there, but we haven't really done anything to attract them into participating into our high logic rants where we discuss impossible physics problems while attempting to prove human rail-guns are bad-ass vrs useless, how jump drives are both realistic and impossible, or discussing random aspects of new and upcoming theories regarding matter, the universe and everything (which i'm expecting someone will try to incorporate life into quantum physics, leading us to the grand answer of 42, and no actual explanation for how the equation works or even what it actually is trying to demonstrate).

To get fangirls, we need more emotion and an ability to get into the head of Beryl among others, or at least a strong basis in what is going on behind the eyes of the Loroi, something our comic is rather poorly placed to do :P.
Honestly? Just keep the comic writing as is so as to keep the project going and the universe developing, and when someone asks let them do a spinoff about how Loroi society and their members think from the Loroi perspective, that will attract fangirls in droves :P.

Besides, do we WANT fanatical fangirls, or simply girls who like comics as they are, as opposed to girls who'd prefer to write shipping where all the Loroi males run off to have forbidden affairs with the other males?

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Trantor
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Trantor »

Fotiadis_110 wrote:My understanding of the female fandom, is the common female fangirl will flock to whatever comic they can appeal to the emotions and feelings shown within, thus they tend to like badly written books which take three pages to explain how good holding hands feel, and tend to dislike or ignore other books which explain the world around them in an amusing manner.
Twilight anyone? :twisted:

Fotiadis_110 wrote:Honestly? There are female readers out there, but we haven't really done anything to attract them into participating into our high logic rants where we discuss impossible physics problems while attempting to prove human rail-guns are bad-ass vrs useless, how jump drives are both realistic and impossible, or discussing random aspects of new and upcoming theories regarding matter, the universe and everything (which i'm expecting someone will try to incorporate life into quantum physics, leading us to the grand answer of 42, and no actual explanation for how the equation works or even what it actually is trying to demonstrate).
Seriously: Sir, you obviously speak my language. I tap my hat.

It´s also similar to the cause why there are so few female hobbymechanics:
Women simply cannot hear the tools´ voices. :ugeek:

Fotiadis_110 wrote:Besides, do we WANT fanatical fangirls
<Al Bundy>
NO!
</Al Bundy>

Fotiadis_110 wrote: ...girls who'd prefer to write shipping where all the Loroi males run off to have forbidden affairs with the other males?
*bhuuorgh*
sapere aude.

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by fredgiblet »

We'll get plenty of fangirls once A Welcome Rain appears. They need SOMEONE to pair Alex up with after all.

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Karst45 »

Trantor wrote:Looks like MILF-Con today. 8-)
well if you consider she gave birth to an overpowerbeingthatthinksheagodandshouldkillanyonewhodontconverttoher. Then yes she a milf :P

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Fotiadis_110 »

Trantor wrote: Twilight anyone? :twisted:
And Mills and Boon for the parents...
Ironically enough my mother reads them because they are so dry and boring they put her to sleep...
Trantor wrote:
Seriously: Sir, you obviously speak my language. I tap my hat.

It´s also similar to the cause why there are so few female hobbymechanics:
Women simply cannot hear the tools´ voices. :ugeek:
And it's reading comments from people who i understand how they think that keeps drawing me to post on this forum... that or people who need some real information because they don't understand the basics of what they are trying to claim.

And regarding Women and hobbies? It isn't actually that they don't like it, nor hear the tools voices, far from it!
Instead they worry too much about public appearance and suppress or deny all interest in such topics lest they be considered unwomanly.
Just like a man who shows no real interest in football is somehow unmanly, despite the fact he's building a scale model of a tank in his garage.
Trantor wrote: *bhuuorgh*
You do understand why the girls seek male/male relationships in their imagination don't you? They don't feel they are good enough to be their hero's partner, and can't stand even imagining the competition of some hot girl they randomly set their hero up with...
So they go for plan B, add another hot male who couldn't compete with their feminine charms, and off they go.

Also: this is the point where I normally grab a bucket and stick it over my head to shield myself from the horrible content... Steel is preferable, as it is totally opaque.
And of course, as an added bonus: if you do happen to somehow pick up the storyline at this point, the bucket is excellent at a second purpose: avoiding making a mess :p

In contrast, most men don't care what people think... to use the horrible slang used by most people in my region 'any holes a goal'

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Trantor »

Fotiadis_110 wrote:
Trantor wrote:Women simply cannot hear the tools´ voices. :ugeek:
...
And regarding Women and hobbies? It isn't actually that they don't like it, nor hear the tools voices, far from it!
My statement above was just a poorly translated pun popular among mechanics like me in germany:
Image
Fotiadis_110 wrote:Instead they worry too much about public appearance and suppress or deny all interest in such topics lest they be considered unwomanly.
Well observed.
Fotiadis_110 wrote:Just like a man who shows no real interest in football is somehow unmanly, despite the fact he's building a scale model of a tank in his garage.
It´s not that bad. If you have another cool hobby, like racing or skydiving no one mocks you for being a chump in terms of football/soccer.

Fotiadis_110 wrote:
Trantor wrote: *bhuuorgh*
You do understand why the girls seek male/male relationships in their imagination don't you?
You got me. I don´t understand girls at all. :mrgreen:
Fotiadis_110 wrote:They don't feel they are good enough to be their hero's partner, and can't stand even imagining the competition of some hot girl they randomly set their hero up with...
So they go for plan B, add another hot male who couldn't compete with their feminine charms, and off they go.

Also: this is the point where I normally grab a bucket and stick it over my head to shield myself from the horrible content... Steel is preferable, as it is totally opaque.
And of course, as an added bonus: if you do happen to somehow pick up the storyline at this point, the bucket is excellent at a second purpose: avoiding making a mess :p
2x :mrgreen:
Fotiadis_110 wrote:In contrast, most men don't care what people think... to use the horrible slang used by most people in my region 'any holes a goal'
:shock: ...please tell me this is just a pun.
sapere aude.

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Razor One »

Fotiadis_110 wrote: Instead they worry too much about public appearance and suppress or deny all interest in such topics lest they be considered unwomanly.
Just like a man who shows no real interest in football is somehow unmanly, despite the fact he's building a scale model of a tank in his garage.
This isn't really so much as a man / woman thing as it is a social construct thing. Men and Women have been socialised to be like this and it tends to be heavily reinforced by the media.

Also, funnily enough, when female news anchors started to get common, the people tended to comment on their looks and appearance were men for the most part :P
You do understand why the girls seek male/male relationships in their imagination don't you? They don't feel they are good enough to be their hero's partner, and can't stand even imagining the competition of some hot girl they randomly set their hero up with...
So they go for plan B, add another hot male who couldn't compete with their feminine charms, and off they go.
...

No. You're dead wrong here. I'm involved with several fandoms that have an extremely high frequency of female fans and not one of the ones I've met at conventions has this attitude. They envision male homosexual relationships for the exact same reasons that most males envision female homosexual relationships. Because it's hot. Or because they'd be cute together.

Case in point. This is hot:

Image

Because this too, is hot:

Image

Also: this is the point where I normally grab a bucket and stick it over my head to shield myself from the horrible content... Steel is preferable, as it is totally opaque.
And of course, as an added bonus: if you do happen to somehow pick up the storyline at this point, the bucket is excellent at a second purpose: avoiding making a mess :p
Image

I imagine that some women would feel the same after all :P
Image
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Trantor »

Razor One wrote:
Fotiadis_110 wrote:You do understand why the girls seek male/male relationships in their imagination don't you? They don't feel they are good enough to be their hero's partner, and can't stand even imagining the competition of some hot girl they randomly set their hero up with...
So they go for plan B, add another hot male who couldn't compete with their feminine charms, and off they go.
...

No. You're dead wrong here. I'm involved with several fandoms that have an extremely high frequency of female fans and not one of the ones I've met at conventions has this attitude. They envision male homosexual relationships for the exact same reasons that most males envision female homosexual relationships. Because it's hot. Or because they'd be cute together.
Hehe. That´s what they pretend. 8-)

Fortiadis_110 isn´t wrong on that point. Otherwise there would be no "cattiness" or "bitchiness". ;)
In German there´s a dedicated word for it, "Stutenbissigkeit", which derives from the pecking order of mares and imho fits perfect on those behaviour-patterns (it is of course a bit derogative).
sapere aude.

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Razor One »

Trantor wrote:
Razor One wrote:
Fotiadis_110 wrote:You do understand why the girls seek male/male relationships in their imagination don't you? They don't feel they are good enough to be their hero's partner, and can't stand even imagining the competition of some hot girl they randomly set their hero up with...
So they go for plan B, add another hot male who couldn't compete with their feminine charms, and off they go.
...

No. You're dead wrong here. I'm involved with several fandoms that have an extremely high frequency of female fans and not one of the ones I've met at conventions has this attitude. They envision male homosexual relationships for the exact same reasons that most males envision female homosexual relationships. Because it's hot. Or because they'd be cute together.
Hehe. That´s what they pretend. 8-)
Oh? And you would know what women are thinking?

But let's take the statement as a given. Since men and women are hardly all that different (despite the popular stereotypes) I suppose this can apply in reverse then?
You do understand why the guys seek female/female relationships in their imagination don't you? They don't feel they are good enough to be their heroine's partner, and can't stand even imagining the competition of some hot guy they randomly set their heroine up with...
So they go for plan B, add another hot female who couldn't compete with their male charms, and off they go.
Oh look. It doesn't.

Perhaps you could enlighten me as to why this logic only applies to the female gender. Why is girl on girl considered hot by guys and can be taken at face value, but when it comes to guy on guy with regards to women, it's not a matter of it being hot but rather an issue of women projecting their insecurities and blanketing them over with a veneer of homosexuality?
Fortiadis_110 isn´t wrong on that point. Otherwise there would be no "cattiness" or "bitchiness". ;)
In German there´s a dedicated word for it, "Stutenbissigkeit", which derives from the pecking order of mares and imho fits perfect on those behaviour-patterns (it is of course a bit derogative).
This is why there are no female members on this board. He's wrong on this point because his point is 100% sexist with no basis in reality. I've talked to women. In person. Some of them were even the ever so dreaded Yaoi fangirls. The way they talk about male homosexual relationships are practically carbon copies of the way guys talk about female homosexual relationships. There is some variance due to socialisation pressures, but overall, the same basic motivations are there.
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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Trantor »

Razor One wrote:Oh? And you would know what women are thinking?
I don´t even want to. 8-)
Razor One wrote:But let's take the statement as a given. Since men and women are hardly all that different (despite the popular stereotypes) I suppose this can apply in reverse then?
But we are.
Razor One wrote:Perhaps you could enlighten me as to why this logic only applies to the female gender. Why is girl on girl considered hot by guys and can be taken at face value, but when it comes to guy on guy with regards to women, it's not a matter of it being hot but rather an issue of women projecting their insecurities and blanketing them over with a veneer of homosexuality?
As long as it is just about kissing you could even claim that it is the same issue with men and women - men also couldn´t stand a random guy kissing with the heroine.
But: Men are simple. While men are seeking for fun wthout thinking too deep, women are seeking for romance.
That´s why men have no problems with female homosexuality, men just peep and enjoy, even more if it comes to the next steps; 2 Girls kissing is cute, 2 Girls doing more is hot.
But women don´t think the same way. They´re not even considering the next "steps", they think into a romantic direction.
Razor One wrote:
Fortiadis_110 isn´t wrong on that point. Otherwise there would be no "cattiness" or "bitchiness". ;)
In German there´s a dedicated word for it, "Stutenbissigkeit", which derives from the pecking order of mares and imho fits perfect on those behaviour-patterns (it is of course a bit derogative).
This is why there are no female members on this board. He's wrong on this point because his point is 100% sexist with no basis in reality.
Where´s the evidence for that insult?
No girls here because of Fortiadis_110´s opinion? AAAND he´s totally wrong? How easy, how convenient.
And on a broader scale: Why is there bitchiness/Stutenbissigkeit then?

I dare to say your "bonmot" is nothing more than a thought-terminating cliché.

Razor One wrote:I've talked to women. In person.
No shit, Sherlock! :shock:
;)
Razor One wrote:Some of them were even the ever so dreaded Yaoi fangirls. The way they talk about male homosexual relationships are practically carbon copies of the way guys talk about female homosexual relationships.
Yes, talk. But they think different.
Just watch their behaviour patterns.
sapere aude.

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by junk »

Not sure where people are digging that guy on guy is found buy a lot of women as unhot.

But it does certainly have a lot more social stigma than girl on girl. I'd say that that's probably because of two things. In a lot of cases girl on girl is just playing around and everyone knows it. Whereas guy on guy tends to usually be more indicative. Also when it came to digging for gays women where largely ignored. It was mostly male gays that were being targeted.

Also why would there be no females on this board? There isn't any gender screening gate anywhere so for all we know half of the board is actually female and not coming forward.

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Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Mayhem »

Razor One wrote:But let's take the statement as a given. Since men and women are hardly all that different (despite the popular stereotypes) I suppose this can apply in reverse then?
You do understand why the guys seek female/female relationships in their imagination don't you? They don't feel they are good enough to be their heroine's partner, and can't stand even imagining the competition of some hot guy they randomly set their heroine up with...
So they go for plan B, add another hot female who couldn't compete with their male charms, and off they go.
Oh look. It doesn't.
It does to an extent.

For a heterosexual man why might girl/girl be hotter than girl/guy?
  • Girl/girl has 2 people to be attracted too not just 1.
  • From a casual sex point of view the current partner does not necessarily restrict to choice of future partners
  • There is no other male to subconsciously compare to/be threatened by
Are all valid contributory (but not exhaustive) reasons that might apply for a given individual.

Also psychology tells us that people don't necessarily understand the real reasons why they like the things they do and subconsciously create false justifications for it when asked (externally or internally) which they then subsequently believe.
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