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The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble. 
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Post The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Ok, so there seems to be a war going on at the moment and, naturally, everyone's attention probably diverts to the Loroi or Umaik when they read the title.

Others yet might think about the historians or other major players.

Well, such short term considerations aren't the purpose of this thread. I created this to find out who, among all the listed races, has the greatest potential for growth.

Right away we can discount the Deliras and Morat, and with them the idea that any current level of technological superiority is guarantee of perpetual dominance.

That earlier statement also puts the Historians into shakey waters, but really not enough is known about them, so I'll be ignoring them for the duration of this post.

The Umaik and Loroi spring to mind next, but I'll be discounting their long term viability because neither of them is particularly innovative.

So, which species has the political system and innovative history which sets them up for future glory?

The Mannadi Pipolsid.

They've somehow got a direct democracy working, which is probably the pinnacle political system that even humans are struggling to reach.

They're known for being good engineers, which, considering the heavy metal nature of warfare, should make up for their lack of physical stature.

They can transmit memories intergenerationally, hampering the slow teaching phase of their young.

Better than that, they seem to be the most widespread among the races. They apparently live across a variety of planets, even some of the Loroi home worlds, their aquatic nature allowing them to spread across planets without having to compete with the locals.

The only major strike against them is their susceptibility to mind reading, but what does it matter if someone can read your mind when you've got a gun the size of a planet pressed against their nose?

Also, as a side note, if the the Soia themselves were based on Soia Leon genetics, the only known viable candidates left are the Neridi.

On another note, one which I don't feel deserves it's own topic, if the pol indeed are Soia version of earth whales, there's a good chance they'e got telepathic powers as well.

Those are my thoughts, what are yours?

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Last edited by White on Mon May 27, 2019 7:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.



Mon May 27, 2019 6:46 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
...perhaps you mean the Pipolsid? The Mannadi were the civilization that fought the Loroi for hundreds of years and got mostly wiped out.

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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Arioch wrote:
...perhaps you mean the Pipolsid? The Mannadi were the civilization that fought the Loroi for hundreds of years and got mostly wiped out.


Edited!

Thanks for the correction, alien names seem to be my weakness.

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Mon May 27, 2019 7:28 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
White wrote:
They've somehow got a direct democracy working, which is probably the pinnacle political system that even humans are struggling to reach.

Democracy is actually a pretty terrible as a system, direct or otherwise, especially if you're running a space empire.


Mon May 27, 2019 10:44 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
When the Loroi and Umiak bomb each other and their respective allies back to the stone age, I think it will be the Nissek who will become the dominant power in the Local Bubble.

They appear to have a strong economy, enough territory, quite powerful navy and are at present not directly involved in the war.


Mon May 27, 2019 11:18 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
boldilocks wrote:
White wrote:
They've somehow got a direct democracy working, which is probably the pinnacle political system that even humans are struggling to reach.

Democracy is actually a pretty terrible as a system, direct or otherwise, especially if you're running a space empire.


The empire part merely depends on how instantly communications work.
And at the very least its potentially the least oppressive. :p

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Mon May 27, 2019 11:23 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
GeoModder wrote:
And at the very least its potentially the least oppressive.

Direct democracy (better known as "mob rule") is one of the least stable and most oppressive forms of government available, at least, whenever it was practiced by humans. The classical Athenians were total jerks, constantly declaring war on their neighbors and executing their own citizens when they became unpopular. Ironically, the oligarchic, militaristic Spartans often looked reasonable and even-handed by comparison.

The Pipolsid can make it work a little bit better because their chemical communication makes them more empathic, and they rarely resort to violence. But they still suffer from the basic problems of direct democracy: there's no way that the whole population can be expert enough in every subject to be able to make an informed decision on every issue, the need to put everything to a vote can result in costly delays, and there is a lot of policy flip-flopping as the mood of the populace continually changes.

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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Arioch wrote:
The classical Athenians were total jerks, constantly declaring war on their neighbors and executing their own citizens when they became unpopular. Ironically, the oligarchic, militaristic Spartans often looked reasonable and even-handed by comparison.

The Spartans weren't big on writing either, so most of the sources we have on them are from their enemies, such as Athens.


Tue May 28, 2019 1:13 am
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
In highschool I once joked in history class that if the Athenians weren't democratic then they would have become 'Rome' 200 years ahead of the Romans.

Remember kids, Ancient Greeks left behind both lessons and warnings, the problem is that they didn't elaborate which is which.

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Tue May 28, 2019 3:01 am
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
hi hi

Living in a failing democracy can be pretty rough, but I'm convinced the principle is better than most alternatives, even if we're botching the execution.

I don't think you can expect everyday people to make informed decisions when relevant information is classified, denied, and hidden. It seems like circular logic to set someone up to fail, then use that failure as justification for the setup. At the very least, a government would do well to have someone who is in a position to say, "Hey, maybe a land war in Russia during the winter isn't such a great idea."

It is, perhaps, important to remember when considering the stability of governments, that emperors rarely died of old age. :P


Tue May 28, 2019 8:56 am
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
I wonder what would be more stable and succesful, a democracy in which high technology is used to assist the voting process or monarchy in which somebody lile Friedrich the Great or Kathrine the same can live indefinitely due to technology.


Tue May 28, 2019 9:11 am
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Werra wrote:
I wonder what would be more stable and succesful, a democracy in which high technology is used to assist the voting process or monarchy in which somebody lile Friedrich the Great or Kathrine the same can live indefinitely due to technology.


Plot of one of my favorite anime...

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Tue May 28, 2019 9:43 am
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
icekatze wrote:
Living in a failing democracy can be pretty rough, but I'm convinced the principle is better than most alternatives, even if we're botching the execution.

I don't think you can expect everyday people to make informed decisions when relevant information is classified, denied, and hidden. It seems like circular logic to set someone up to fail, then use that failure as justification for the setup. At the very least, a government would do well to have someone who is in a position to say, "Hey, maybe a land war in Russia during the winter isn't such a great idea."

It is, perhaps, important to remember when considering the stability of governments, that emperors rarely died of old age.

To clarify, my comments above refer specifically to "direct democracy", in which all important decisions are put to a popular vote. I think a constitutional republic is a much better form of government, where the rule of law tales precedence over the whims of the mob, and while ultimate authority still resides with the people, they elect representatives who can devote their full time and attention to specialize in doing the work of the government. Like all forms of government, representative democracy has its own shortcomings; the political class can become corrupt, and the adversarial party system can lead to unnecessary internal division... but as far as I can tell, it is superior to every other system that has been tried.

The problem with average people making everyday government decisions is not due to government secrecy; it's due to the fact that professional people are busy living their lives, and most don't have the spare time, interest, or intellectual bandwidth to be qualified to make informed decisions about every issue. I consider myself a very smart and well-informed person, but I don't keep up with local politics well enough to have an informed opinion about what's going on in local government, much less expertise in watershed management or civil engineering or whatever specialized knowledge is required to make informed decisions on the subject at hand. Representative democracy allows the people to retain ultimate power without requiring the entire populace to become professional politicians. Personally, there are things I would rather do.

My home state of California is conducting its own experiments with direct democracy (through our ballot proposition system), and from my point of view it has been an almost complete disaster. For example, California voters are required to approve any new taxes; you would think that this would mean low taxes, right? Wrong; California has the highest taxes in the union. The need to submit every matter of importance to a popular vote makes the elected legislature essentially impotent, meaning that very little gets done and what does get done costs far more than it should. Those highest taxes from the biggest economy in the nation pay for some of the worst public services in the nation. California voters can change the state constitution and recall judges whose decisions they don't like; if those aren't a twin recipe for anarchy, I don't know what is. Like classical Athens, I think California's success and affluence has been in spite of our loony form of government, and not because of it. It's likely only the state's subordination to the US Federal government that has prevented the nutjobs here from declaring war on Texas and Alabama every other Tuesday.

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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Arioch wrote:
icekatze wrote:
My home state of California is conducting its own experiments with direct democracy (through our ballot proposition system), and from my point of view it has been an almost complete disaster. For example, California voters are required to approve any new taxes; you would think that this would mean low taxes, right? Wrong; California has the highest taxes in the union. The need to submit every matter of importance to a popular vote makes the elected legislature essentially impotent, meaning that very little gets done and what does get done costs far more than it should. Those highest taxes from the biggest economy in the nation pay for some of the worst public services in the nation. California voters can change the state constitution and recall judges whose decisions they don't like; if those aren't a twin recipe for anarchy, I don't know what is. Like classical Athens, I think California's success and affluence has been in spite of our loony form of government, and not because of it. It's likely only the state's subordination to the US Federal government that has prevented the nutjobs here from declaring war on Texas and Alabama every other Tuesday.


You make it sound like most Californians are in your opinion nutjobs, if had their way war declarations would be the result? ;)

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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Dictatorship of the proletariat is the only form of goverment that makes any sense, atleast in Russia.


Tue May 28, 2019 12:03 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Ooooh, this thread can go bad in so many ways... Luckily people here are civilised for the most part :) .
Arioch, I see your California, and raise you Switzerland (though, even by Swiss standards, Cali seems nuts. The power to recall judges? I might be mistaken, but Ted Bundy was considered a decent member of society by everyone around him...)
I would also like to add that historically, mob rule was bad because mobs tended to be driven by baser instinct (since that was the common denominator amongs large groups of people). One you advance on the tech level, you tend to go up on Marslow's Pyramid, and can afford to think about more than bread and games. Stuff like anti-aging and advanced medical care, broad access to water and food, and more free time to specialise in stuff that you like, rather than need (I'm an aerospace engineer, but I've also gotten a degree as an arborist, and am thinking about getting some work done on psychology. And I learned IT on the job, from extracurriculum courses and specialisation courses). An advanced society can also make decision much quicker by implementing electronic methods (though there's quite some work to do on securing those networks).
My perception might be skewered because I live in a country desperately fighting against corruption (and has scored two major recent victories just these past three days, though popular collective action).


Tue May 28, 2019 12:32 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Arioch wrote:
The Pipolsid can make it work a little bit better because their chemical communication makes them more empathic, and they rarely resort to violence. But they still suffer from the basic problems of direct democracy: there's no way that the whole population can be expert enough in every subject to be able to make an informed decision on every issue, the need to put everything to a vote can result in costly delays, and there is a lot of policy flip-flopping as the mood of the populace continually changes.


Oh, that brings the Pipolsid down several notches down in my eyes, then. To clarify, I wasn't promoting Direct Democracy as the ultimate form of government, although I now see I may have actually used those words! I just thought that the pipolsid had mastered politics and leveraged their biology to an extent that they were like a super efficient hive mind of sorts, even though they had free will, hence my use of the words "somehow managed to get direct democracy to work." Meaning, that they'd managed to get the theoretical efficiency of the proposed system by overcoming the practical hurdles, in the same sort of way that a hive mind would make communism work.

In either case, I still think their ingenuity gives them an edge. Although, I think, if possible, it would be helpful to know how ingenous they are.

For example, compared to a human rate of progress, how fast were they going historically? Did their aquatic environment help or hinder them, and what was the effect of Soia Leon artifacts on their development, those kinds of things.

I'm not sure how much faster or slower development got after the formation of the Loroi union, and how much of that can be attributed to an advance in the difficulty of advancement.

Also, Arioch, do you know the populations of the races in the local bubble? I'd expect the smaller creatures to have higher populations, but then that might just be a fallacy.

Also, how deep do the Pipolsid live? Their apperance seems to be based off deep underwater jellyfish. If so, it makes me wonder how difficult a seige of a Pipolsid city would be.

My sense is that anything several miles under an ocean is essentially nuke proof if they can maintain even local defences. And I doubt any race in the bubble has better underwater craft than the pipolsid. On the other hand, I'm not sure how powerful and effective anti matter would be. I remember reading that Turning on the engines of a warship inside an atmosphere would devestate the ecology, but I'm not sure what that means.

Would it mean that the ship could just fly by in the upper atmosphere and an extinction level event happens, or would it have to swim down to within several miles of a deep underwater Pipolsid city, exposing itself to enemy fire all the while?

Of course, this is a moot point if the pipolsid can survive only in shallow water. I can see that they have eyes, but their transparency and use of biolumencence makes it about even for me as to what level of the ocean they live in.

Also, for how long do Pipolsid live? And the rest of the union races?

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Tue May 28, 2019 1:07 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
icekatze wrote:
Living in a failing democracy can be pretty rough, but I'm convinced the principle is better than most alternatives, even if we're botching the execution.

"The form of government I advocate for is the best one when it's executed 'properly'" is a line of argument that vindicates every single form of government.

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At the very least, a government would do well to have someone who is in a position to say, "Hey, maybe a land war in Russia during the winter isn't such a great idea."

Unfortunately the two examples we have of failed land wars with russia during winter weren't actually started during the winter and were both planned with a the best forecasts available being that of a rather mild winter. The only one who had any real choice of the war was napoleon as far as I can recall. The germans were stuck with either striking first while russian troops were in disarray from lack of competent leadership or wait for the soviet union to complete its buildup of forces on the border and fight a defensive war against an actually organized enemy(And hope that the japanese could mess up the soviet backlines).


Tue May 28, 2019 1:40 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Mr.Tucker wrote:
Arioch, I see your California, and raise you Switzerland (though, even by Swiss standards, Cali seems nuts. The power to recall judges? I might be mistaken, but Ted Bundy was considered a decent member of society by everyone around him...).


The swiss work it out by being extremely ethnically homogenous and having a conservative culture, and having most decisions made locally.


Tue May 28, 2019 1:43 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
boldilocks wrote:
Mr.Tucker wrote:
Arioch, I see your California, and raise you Switzerland (though, even by Swiss standards, Cali seems nuts. The power to recall judges? I might be mistaken, but Ted Bundy was considered a decent member of society by everyone around him...).


The swiss work it out by being extremely ethnically homogenous and having a conservative culture, and having most decisions made locally.


Ethnically homogenous? There's not even a Swiss people. They speak German, French, Italian and Romansch.

Most decisions being made locally doesn't seem bad either, in most cases. While I'm an Eastern European and tend towards unity, most countries are nowhere near as homogenous as mine. In that case, especially where there are historically large numbers of small polities (thus a tradition of local sovereignty), it makes sense to delegate power onto local authorities. Not to mention that by making the populace more discrete, you increase ethnic homogeneity within any given territory.
Also, with the increase in urbanisation and technology, cities are once again gaining ever more power and influence. It's regionalisation centered around urban areas, and it's the trend of our current society and tech level. Can't fight it, so work with it.


Tue May 28, 2019 2:56 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Mr.Tucker wrote:
Ethnically homogenous? There's not even a Swiss people. They speak German, French, Italian and Romansch.

Would you prefer racially homogenous? They are a people of a common genetic ancestry of a relatively small people in a limited geographical area. And I can assure you there is a swiss people.

Mr.Tucker wrote:
Most decisions being made locally doesn't seem bad either, in most cases.

It tends to be more flexible, but is also prone to corruption, even in societies of high trust.

Mr.Tucker wrote:
While I'm an Eastern European and tend towards unity, most countries are nowhere near as homogenous as mine. In that case, especially where there are historically large numbers of small polities (thus a tradition of local sovereignty), it makes sense to delegate power onto local authorities. Not to mention that by making the populace more discrete, you increase ethnic homogeneity within any given territory. Also, with the increase in urbanisation and technology, cities are once again gaining ever more power and influence. It's regionalisation centered around urban areas, and it's the trend of our current society and tech level.


Carving california up into ethnically discrete blocks would probably improve conditions a great deal, especially if you could ensure a complete disconnect between rural and city politics. (Ie, ensured that one couldn't affect the others, with water rights belonging to the closest polity to the source of water, effectively giving rural areas control over the water supplies.)

Mr.Tucker wrote:
Can't fight it, so work with it.

Oh I don't agree with that at all. American cities have grown increasingly bold in their arrogance, and I've noted the same problem locally in my own country.


Last edited by boldilocks on Wed May 29, 2019 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue May 28, 2019 3:26 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Mr. Tucker wrote:
There's not even a Swiss people. They speak German, French, Italian and Romansch.

If there wasn't a Swiss people, the country would divide itself between Germany, France, Italy and Austria. Something seems to bind the Bergsepps, even if its only stubborn refusal to be anything else.

boldilocks wrote:
The swiss work it out by being extremely ethnically homogenous and having a conservative culture, and having most decisions made locally.

They're forced to. Switzerland is surrounded by more powerful nations on all sides and their own country is split by geography. That makes expansion impossible and keeps the constituency small and homogenous, thus engaged, which makes the democratic system stable. The Swiss model would never work in Germany for example, because Germanies geography forces it to expand.
Well, maybe new technologies can alleviate the downsides of Democracy, but I see no reason why they couldn't do the same for despotism or monarchy.


Tue May 28, 2019 3:34 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
The Union race I'm actually interested in learning more about is the Neridi, as well as being curious to learn a little more about their constitutional monarchy.


Tue May 28, 2019 4:29 pm
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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
White wrote:
I just thought that the pipolsid had mastered politics and leveraged their biology to an extent that they were like a super efficient hive mind of sorts, even though they had free will, hence my use of the words "somehow managed to get direct democracy to work." Meaning, that they'd managed to get the theoretical efficiency of the proposed system by overcoming the practical hurdles, in the same sort of way that a hive mind would make communism work.

I suppose it depends on your definitions, but I'm not sure it's possible to have individual free will within a "hive mind."

White wrote:
For example, compared to a human rate of progress, how fast were they going historically? Did their aquatic environment help or hinder them, and what was the effect of Soia Leon artifacts on their development, those kinds of things.

I'm not sure how much faster or slower development got after the formation of the Loroi union, and how much of that can be attributed to an advance in the difficulty of advancement.

The Pipolsid evolved to be able to fabricate sophisticated structures from chemical compounds secreted by their own bodies, which were necessary to protect their fragile bodies from predators. Their primitive ancestors initially used these "bubble cities" like bee hives, as storage and processing facilities for gathered foodstuffs, but they quickly worked out how to build structures that would foster the growth of algae- and fungus- like organisms, and so the Pipolsid emerged into sentience with a ready-made civilization complete with farming, city-building, and a complex society, completely skipping the lengthy tribal hunter-gathered mode that most species go through. However, since they were underwater and without easy access to fire or most forms of artificial metallurgy, most Pipolsid technology hit a roadblack at the pre-industrial level, and stayed there for a very long time.

In the archaeological record on Lenzano (the Pipolsid homeworld), remnants of a TL12 Pipolsid civilization suddenly appear at the beginning of the Soia era, so it seems fairly certainly that someone engaged in some uplift activity with the Pipolsid. This ultra-tech civilization was destroyed at the end of that era, as was the case across the Local Bubble, but the Pipolsid recovered their own "native" civilization much more quickly than other contemporaries because of their ability to rely on their own biological building materials, their ability to pass down memories across generations without external technology, and because of their cooperative and empathic nature that allowed them to avoid the kind of barbarism that ultimately consumed the early post-fall Loroi and Barsam civilizations. The Soia-era ruins on Lenzano helped the Pipolsid to eventually recover high technology, but this was a slow road. So the long-winded upshot of all that is that the Pipolsid are not especially rapid in terms of technological development.

They are also not at all warlike. When threatened by the Delrias or Mannadi, in the absence of Loroi protection, they simply gave in to whatever external demands were made on them.

White wrote:
Also, Arioch, do you know the populations of the races in the local bubble? I'd expect the smaller creatures to have higher populations, but then that might just be a fallacy.

I don't have many specific numbers for total populations. But in a high-tech society, I'm not sure that physical size would have much correlation with population sizes.

White wrote:
Also, how deep do the Pipolsid live? Their apperance seems to be based off deep underwater jellyfish. If so, it makes me wonder how difficult a seige of a Pipolsid city would be.

My sense is that anything several miles under an ocean is essentially nuke proof if they can maintain even local defences. And I doubt any race in the bubble has better underwater craft than the pipolsid. On the other hand, I'm not sure how powerful and effective anti matter would be. I remember reading that Turning on the engines of a warship inside an atmosphere would devestate the ecology, but I'm not sure what that means.
Would it mean that the ship could just fly by in the upper atmosphere and an extinction level event happens, or would it have to swim down to within several miles of a deep underwater Pipolsid city, exposing itself to enemy fire all the while?

Of course, this is a moot point if the pipolsid can survive only in shallow water. I can see that they have eyes, but their transparency and use of biolumencence makes it about even for me as to what level of the ocean they live in.

The Pipolsid structures (especially with high technology) allow them to live at almost any depth. Their flexible bodies can withstand variable pressures without much problem. However, they rarely live in the very deep ocean, as there's not much there to eat.

Being underwater will definitely give you some resistance to airbursts or attacks against ground targets, but whoever attacked Lenzano knew who their targets were, and adjusted their methods accordingly. I don't know that much about hydrodynamics, but I can infer from how depth charges work that the shock waves from sub-surface detonations can be very damaging. Still, it can be hard to find targets in deep water, and Lenzano has better than average survival of relics from that era.

White wrote:
Also, for how long do Pipolsid live? And the rest of the union races?

I don't have that worked out for most of the races, but I think given their biology and lifestyle, it makes sense for Pipolsid individuals to be fairly long-lived.

nweismuller wrote:
The Union race I'm actually interested in learning more about is the Neridi, as well as being curious to learn a little more about their constitutional monarchy.

I have an essay on the Neridi in the works, but that will take some more time to finish.

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Post Re: The Most Powerful Known Race In The Local Bubble.
Arioch wrote:
They are also not at all warlike. When threatened by the Delrias or Mannadi, in the absence of Loroi protection, they simply gave in to whatever external demands were made on them.


Was this pacifism a situational phenomenon or is it something they adhere to to great extents.

What I mean is, did they concede because the demands, from their point of view, were less costly than a war, or are they just ultimate pacifists that would stand by for their own genocide Pamelite (animorph pacifist aliens which did exactly that) style?

Also, as to the case of Pipolsid tech development, it does sound slow, but that slowness seems to be caused more by their aquatic environment than a lack of ingenuity. Would you say they've sped up since they can now work on land with high technology? Or perhaps are they just not good at land based tech, much like many of the other races would still not have great underwater manufacturing capabilities?

Arioch wrote:
Being underwater will definitely give you some resistance to airbursts or attacks against ground targets, but whoever attacked Lenzano knew who their targets were, and adjusted their methods accordingly. I don't know that much about hydrodynamics, but I can infer from how depth charges work that the shock waves from sub-surface detonations can be very damaging. Still, it can be hard to find targets in deep water, and Lenzano has better than average survival of relics from that era.


That must be a comforting thought to the local bubble races. Imagine if modern society still thought the sea people might be lurking around, and the sea people were historically known for defeating societies more advanced than ours.

But, more on topic, I was actually just wondering more about how well they would stand against the tech level of the Loroi and Umaik around the time of the story.

I'm not an expert on hydrodynamics either, but from what I've read on the topic, which, admittedly, isn't much, there seems to be a qualitative difference between deep underwater explosions and those happening in relatively shallow water.

If I had to guess, and this is my own theorizing at this point, since a shockwave, I think, is essentially a really large amplitude of a sound wave, one which leaves behind a vaccum because the atmospheric density isn't high enough to maintain a sound wave against such a pressure, than explosions underwater should be devastating, but limited in effect. You wouldn't get a miles wide blast zone like you get in the atmosphere, just a compact explosive area beyond which you'd just be left with really loud sound waves.

If anyone knows about this topic, just let me know if I'm wrong.

Actually, I think I'll just create a new topic for this idea.

Also, I'm still wondering about how devastating anti matter engines would be to an ecology if activated in atmosphere, since I'm not sure what the magnitude of the ecological disaster they pose is.

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L-U-C-Y: My Outsider Fanfiction


Tue May 28, 2019 10:54 pm
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