Loroi abilities, and Loroi Judo

[saint of m]

Horses had their advantages, and disadvantages. You had to train them to fight certain things, and well war is more scary for them then us humans. So it takes a long time. Also, they can't be cheap. A horse alone in today's money is a pricey pet, and it must not have been much different back then.

That all said, WW1 much of the war tech we take granted today we were in the making up as you go phase of using them. My fat lard butt could outrun a WW1 tank, and they were the definition of uncomfortable. Today, I want to be the guy inside the Abrams if I go to war.

[Michael]

Actually the real expenses are insurance and vet bills, so long as you have about an acre a horse and rotate them properly it can be pretty cheap, but then that only really works with the one horse, if you're looking at a livery yard then there are many more animals to be cared for, they all have to be wormed, any shots they need have to be done and like I said the insurance is a killer since it covers every thing from leg injuries to laminates to colic or what have you.

In years gone by (ie: WWI & WWII) the care level for horses was near non-existent, I don't think even the RSPCA existed around that time (their somewhere in the region of 100 years old or something) food, water and veterinary practises were as basic as it could be and still allow the animal to live, and even then it wasn't enough, horses are grazers so they eat almost constantly and have food in their system nearly all the time (even when their asleep). There were many practises that were used back then that would land you straight into jail now days, there are some still used today that many people disagree with, like twitching.

But the training a war horse had in that time would have taken only a few years, it can be done alongside backing a horse, teaching it how wear a saddle and to carry a rider, as its mostly getting them used to loud noises, sudden flashes and things like that although its best to wait until after they've been trained to carry a rider, training them to attack is relatively easy as well, but that sort of thing goes beyond my expertise.

[discord]

muttley: never said horses did not need food(fuel) just that fore mentioned fuel is available in the wild and not an industrial product, horses CAN graze, combustion engines can not, it is not effective in any shape or form but ineffective transport is better then no transport.

[saint of m]

But where to graze? With mustard gas, machine guns, trenches, tanks, bombs, chlorine gas, rats, piles of dead, spent cartridges, other poisonous gas, amputated limbs and what not...where would they graze near the battlefield?

[Michael]

But where to graze? With mustard gas, machine guns, trenches, tanks, bombs, chlorine gas, rats, piles of dead, spent cartridges, other poisonous gas, amputated limbs and what not...where would they graze near the battlefield?

Most would be kept far from the front lines and if they were any where near them they'd mostly they'd be well behind the front trenches, towards the rear and brought up when needed.

Of course there would still be some up at the front and you're completely right that all of those thing would not do them any good, not that it made any difference, they would eventually be desensitised to it, same as the soldiers or they'd go bat shit crazy, same as the soldiers, or they'd be broken, go through what was left of their life and eventually drop down dead, same as the soldiers.

[Fotiadis_110]

Regardings tameable animals?

Zebra are close relatives to horses, yet we haven't ever bothered with large scale domestication.
The reason? They really are NASTY animals, they aren't friendly and good natured like modern horses.

As for rhinos? they would be unimpressed with their relatively low speed, but they will look at Indian elephants, and wonder why we didn't domesticate the African variety

[fredgiblet]

I suspect that pre-domestication horses probably weren't very pleasant either.

[Arioch]

Granted that our domesticated animals have been changed a lot through breeding over the millennia, but I think it's nearly impossible to domesticate a large-bodied wild animal in the first place if it doesn't already have the appropriate temperament. You can't breed an animal if you can't make it reproduce in captivity; elephants are still not fully domesticated, because they can't be bred in captivity, and calves still have to be stolen out of the wild.

That's one of the points made in Guns, Germs and Steel: that while Europe and the Middle East had lots of suitable domesticatable organisms - sheep, goats, pigs, cattle, oxen, horses, wheat, barley, etc.... Africa had very few - water buffalo, sorghum... and not much more; and that this was one of several factors that led to Africa being behind other parts of the world in the development of their civilization. The unsuitability of Zebras as domestic animals can be judged by the fact that they were never successfully domesticated; you can be sure it wasn't for lack of trying. The early Africans were every bit as clever and capable as their Eurasian counterparts.

[ed_montague]

Granted that our domesticated animals have been changed a lot through breeding over the millennia, but I think it's nearly impossible to domesticate a large-bodied wild animal in the first place if it doesn't already have the appropriate temperament. You can't breed an animal if you can't make it reproduce in captivity; elephants are still not fully domesticated, because they can't be bred in captivity, and calves still have to be stolen out of the wild.

That's one of the points made in Guns, Germs and Steel: that while Europe and the Middle East had lots of suitable domesticatable organisms - sheep, goats, pigs, cattle, oxen, horses, wheat, barley, etc.... Africa had very few - water buffalo, sorghum... and not much more; and that this was one of several factors that led to Africa being behind other parts of the world in the development of their civilization. The unsuitability of Zebras as domestic animals can be judged by the fact that they were never successfully domesticated; you can be sure it wasn't for lack of trying. The early Africans were every bit as clever and capable as their Eurasian counterparts.

squeeeee someone else who read that book

To be slightly more specific, sub-Saharan Africa really fell behind for want of a horse (ucwatIdidthar)--North Africa did fine, especially along the Mediterranean and along the Nile, where the climate was similar enough to the rest of Eurasia to allow domesticated animals and foodstuffs to spread easily. Egypt remained a regional power until the Persians came along and stomped them, and let's face it--the Persians stomped everyone.

[Michael]

I suspect that pre-domestication horses probably weren't very pleasant either.

You're quite right, wild horses in the New Forest are very dangerous, My half sister went with her cousin and he got kicked by one, as serious as it was (broken ribs) it was

[fredgiblet]

I always find it amusing when people go "OH CUTE!" and rush towards a wild animal and then get hurt.

Like those retards who climb into zoo enclosures, I think they should be left in there permanently.

[javcs]

I always find it amusing when people go "OH CUTE!" and rush towards a wild animal and then get hurt.

Like those retards who climb into zoo enclosures, I think they should be left in there permanently.

C'mon, man, that's harsh, cruel, and uncalled for. They shouldn't have to put up with that. What did they ever do to you to earn such ill intent focused upon them?





















The animals deserve better than that.

[Michael]

I always find it amusing when people go "OH CUTE!" and rush towards a wild animal and then get hurt.

Like those retards who climb into zoo enclosures, I think they should be left in there permanently.

C'mon, man, that's harsh, cruel, and uncalled for. They shouldn't have to put up with that. What did they ever do to you to earn such ill intent focused upon them?





The animals deserve better than that.

I think it may have been a dare or something, see we've had horses since forever and one of the first things my mum taught us was to be careful around whether their tied up or in their stable or what have you, 'cos there's always the possibility that they could do some severe damage, anyway, she told him not to go near these horses (the sign saying Warning! Dangerous animals! should have been a hint) so he jumped the fence, got kicked and air lifted to a hospital or something, all in all a fun day so I was told

And the reason they take people out of the animal enclosures in the zoo is so the animals don't kill them for the betterment of the race, survival of the fittest and all that (cos only an idiot thinks entering a near wild animals home is a good idea )

[saint of m]

Adult Elephants can be taken from the wild, and African elephants have been used for war (Carthegenians used them alot before Rome wiped them off the face of the Earth).

A technique used in Africa was to get a fenced off area where a tame elephant cow would be. A wild male, looking for love, would come in but couldn't get out and would be too exhosted trying to get out to fight off the humans.

However all things considering with the predators in Africa, the elephants tend to be meaner and tougher.

Another problem with breeding them in captivity is the length it would take to raise a baby.

2 year gestation.
15 years from birth to maturity.

In that time you could have several litters of dogs to pull your sled or a few horses.

A big problem with zebras is how skiddish they are. Horses are by nature as well, freaking out at the littlest things, but they are no where as bad as a wild zebra.

And since no one brought up predatory animals, for the most part it's simple: Mankind has not domesticated any of the maggoty of predatory animals outside of wolves and house cats (although cats it may have been the other way around) largely due to the fact you would need too animals for the price of one: the Predator and what the predator is going to eat.

Again with the rhyno: horrible eyesight, worse disposition, would try and run over the trainer then the allies then maybe the enemy.

[junk]

Adult Elephants can be taken from the wild, and African elephants have been used for war (Carthegenians used them alot before Rome wiped them off the face of the Earth).

A technique used in Africa was to get a fenced off area where a tame elephant cow would be. A wild male, looking for love, would come in but couldn't get out and would be too exhosted trying to get out to fight off the humans.

However all things considering with the predators in Africa, the elephants tend to be meaner and tougher.

Another problem with breeding them in captivity is the length it would take to raise a baby.

2 year gestation.
15 years from birth to maturity.

In that time you could have several litters of dogs to pull your sled or a few horses.

A big problem with zebras is how skiddish they are. Horses are by nature as well, freaking out at the littlest things, but they are no where as bad as a wild zebra.

And since no one brought up predatory animals, for the most part it's simple: Mankind has not domesticated any of the maggoty of predatory animals outside of wolves and house cats (although cats it may have been the other way around) largely due to the fact you would need too animals for the price of one: the Predator and what the predator is going to eat.

Again with the rhyno: horrible eyesight, worse disposition, would try and run over the trainer then the allies then maybe the enemy.

To be honest the benefit of Cats and Dogs/wolves is that they are incredibly social animals which made them mesh very well with social humans. Other predatory animals can be domesticated as well, but you generally have get some of the more social charecteristics to be more prominent over multigeneration breeding.

Foxes come to mind, which do in fact have a relatively successfull domestication project.

Though overall another important thing to consider is utlity of said animals. Both cats and dogs had an amazing utility for early humans. Other predators might not as thier potential biggest utility is companionship as opposed to something to help in survival.

[Arioch]

Cats actually aren't that social; the domestic variety are largely solitary when in the wild. Which is very unusual for a domesticated animal. The human-cat relationship is a very strange one.

[fredgiblet]

We attract rodents for them to consume
We provide plenty of body heat for them to harvest
We worship them as gods

I don't think it's so strange that they'd want to hang out with us.

[Absalom]

Cats actually aren't that social; the domestic variety are largely solitary when in the wild. Which is very unusual for a domesticated animal. The human-cat relationship is a very strange one.

I've heard that feral cats are actually loosely social, though this might be a warped kitten trait, and might not apply to wild species. The trick is that they aren't pack hunters, so they've never developed the close bonds that typify dogs & humans. Cat prey tends to be easier to go after, apparently.

And apparently Sand Cats don't feel any particular fear of us, and sometimes share burrows, so the other species might have similar traits.

[junk]

Cats actually aren't that social; the domestic variety are largely solitary when in the wild. Which is very unusual for a domesticated animal. The human-cat relationship is a very strange one.

Cats actually do follow a relative pack order as well. They aren't as dependant on closeness as dogs but they tend to hang close to their "pack" usually staying in the same rooms and similar.

And in the wild cats form packs pretty commonly.

[Arioch]

Wild cats have a community of sorts where some "hang out" together, and there's a pecking order as regards mating. But as far as I'm aware they're solo hunters, and there's not any kind of pack organization or coordination.

In most herd or pack animals, if you can control the Alpha, then you've usually got control of the whole herd; it's an important tool for domestication. With cats it's a one-on-one relationship; Fluffy doesn't give a hoot whether or not you're getting along with Mittens.