Well, when Alex was walking to the bridge, he said he noticed that the Loroi tended to avoid contact with each other.

If it's prominent to be noticeable over the course of a long-ish walk, I think it's really noticeable. Alex being Californian, I believe this means the Loroi have a sense of personal space that significantly exceeds that of the American.

Well, at least the Americans of 2160.

The 51st may not have been on a diplomatic mission, but I think Tempo remains the chief diplomatic officer for the mission, if that makes sense. Doubtless her workload was expected to be lower than it has proven, but Stillstorm's authority over Alex really didn't seem greater than Tempo's to me, despite Stills' captaincy. If you are correct that placing Alex in the brig is indeed the "only logical option" for the Tempest and the situation that it was in, then it would be the only logical option for Tempo to take, just as much as it would be the only logical option for Stillstorm, so the matter of who actually gave the order becomes moot as the decision itself would be inevitable.

However, if Stillstorm took such an option because it was "the only logical option," then that is still of vastly different timbre from "probably just because she can."

Regardless, I would think the Mizol's authority can exceed that of the fleet captain in matters that do not pertain to commanding the ship in combat but do pertain to Mizol caste functions, and thus the Mizol may be responsible for a number of things pertaining to Alex which the captain may lack the authority to countermand.

I also think that Stillstorm is brazen and headstrong and vicious enough to attempt to countermand such Mizol authority anyways, and has won enough esteem and trust from her crew to possibly even pull something off, but that she would do so in more open and violent ways than just locking him up alone.

I think that if Stillstorm ordered Alex quarantined and Tempo wanted to debrief him in more detail than she had during their brief conversation on the bridge, then Tempo would have both the right and the ability to do so. However, no such in-depth interrogation/debriefing/conversation occurred. I actually find that somewhat suspicious; Stillstorm may believe words to be lies and think that there is nothing of value to be gained from verbal interrogation, but I doubt that she would see any harm in having the Mizol conduct such a debriefing.


My understanding is that diplomacy is, to a large extent, psychological warfare, and I think it would be especially focused on that aspect amongst a species who have delegated the task to their most proficient mind-readers.

Tempo was, I think, already playing psychological games with Alex since the moment he stepped on the bridge. Our new friend crumjd has said that he believes that Tempo was getting so close to Alex as part of an attempt to probe his mind; I believe that she was doing so with more than telepathy. The postures and attitudes that she adopts over the course of that conversation seem to me to be an attempt at probing his responses and testing his reactions, seeing if he would respond to aggressive body language and tone with aggressive or anxious or fearful or whatever body language and tone, or if he would just disregard it altogether. Seeing if he had emotional responses analogous to Loroi or known non-Loroi species, to the greatest extent that she could even without a telepathic connection.

Telepathy is likely the most important tool in the Mizol's emotional manipulation toolkit, sure, but I doubt it would be the only one; what we have seen of Tempo's work so far took place over long distance communications devices and with an artificial intelligence, circumstances where telepathy would mean nothing but the ability to understand even non-Loroi body language and tone without telepathic aid would be of essence.

So even though there was no sanzai or mind reading or any other form of telepathic contact between the two, I think that more than words were exchanged between Alex and Tempo, and perhaps Tempo was able to get a better measure of him than you might expect.

So, basically, I think that treating him as a diplomat is not a cover, but that his ambassadorial position in no way means that they are not going to play mind games with him.

More the opposite, really.

You are right to point out that they do not have many of the amenities and resources of a diplomatic mission, but they do have at least one; an on-duty diplomatic officer. They chose not to use this resource to deal with Alex for the entire time between his exit from the bridge to the current scene. They must surely have considered debriefing him in more detail than what little they were able to gather during their rushed and awkwardly interrupted conversation in the command chamber; the fact that they didn't talk to him at all was a deliberate choice, not an accident of circumstances. I am sure that it was a rational decision and not an emotional and petty one, but it remains their choice.

You spoke of a desire to "play it safe." Frankly, none of the individuals involved in this part of the story have demonstrated a tendancy to play anything safe so far as I can tell. Alex got his spot on the Bellarmine specifically because he was not the sort of person to play things safe. Tempo was certainly not playing things safe when she chose to invite Alex on the bridge and took him at his word. Fireblade telekinetically tossed Alex into a wall in the elevator. Beryl stood up to her captain and seemed to be vehemently arguing against her during the initial interrogation scene, which, I believe, indicates that when she says "there was nothing I could do about it" on the current page, we can take that to mean that it was not for lack of trying. She might be a cute observer rather than a fierce warrior, but I think the girl's got some real iron in her. Stillstorm? Stillstorm may no longer know what a phrase like "play it safe" would even mean. The Barsam and Historian emissaries argued that the Loroi should play it safe with their salvage, but I get the sense that Mozin at least was playing a dangerous game of his own in trying to get the human aboard his ship ("The Barsam are trusted allies, but they have their own agenda and will not hesitate to use you for their own gain," as Tempo said), and who knows what goes on in the Historian AI's computer brain. In fact, the only character we've seen in the entire comic who is known to be the sort to "play it safe" when riskier options with decent potential rewards are available is actually considered extraordinary and highly eccentric for this proclivity; his name is Kikitik-27-Tikkak-Tikkukit, code-named "The Stray" by Loroi intelligence.

I do not think that this is a comic in which the parties involved will generally "play it safe."

I think that preferring to take risks, sometimes even massive, massive risks, is how most of these players roll.

I think that Tempo has already bet the farm on being able to take Alex's measure, and had done so the moment she made a deal with him on the Tempest's bridge.

Stillstorm and Tempo seem like natural gamblers to me, and they've clearly taken opposite bets on the "can we trust the pink thing" pool. How they go about cashing in on such a bet would, I think, massively differ between parties; I think that Stillstorm would go for direct confrontation if at all possible and would immensely, massively prefer circumstances that make direct confrontation possible; locking Alex away diminishes that, in my view. On the other hand I think Tempo would prefer the art of manipulation (admittedly I believe this based upon her profession rather than any revelation or insight regarding her personality).

Well, as I said above I don't think Stillstorm would necessarily have the authority or, if it came down to it, the means to keep Tempo from having a nice long chat with Alex about Earth's location if that's what Tempo decided to do. So at the very least, unlike Beryl I think there was likely something Tempo could have done, but chose not to do.

(I also think that Tempo is very, very likely to lie about this if Alex brings the subject up and also to have ordered Beryl to at least avoid revealing excessive truths in this matter).

But as long as we've at least moved from "just because she can" to "because of actual reasons" I'm happy.

Or because the unaccounted for crew-members are also onboard and they want them to think they're alone to see if they're lying Umiak constructs.

First post here: I don't know if this idea has been posted before. I can't find anything that looks like it on a brief search.

I think that Beryl is pursuing her own agenda, to befriend Alex with the aim of extracting information. I think she's been ordered to do this but she may have decided to do it on her own: certainly she's not all that she appears on the surface. She's doing good cop/bad cop with Fireblade too.

Hence the temptation being put in front of Alex here - Beryl's sizing him up to see how distractable he is.

Oh, hell, I hope a few of his crewmates survived. Ellen and Admiral Hamilton are still listed as characters, after all. As improbable as it may be, I really want an emotional reunion scene.

I thought we already had an emotional reunion scene.

The emotion was fear.

Welcome to the forum, Muttley. An interesting theory, and certainly one of the darker ones I've heard regarding Beryl. Read more of the forum, and you'll see she's generally regarded as the most adorable thing the Loroi have ever produced.

You are quite likely right that she's been ordered to get more information out of Alex. She is a Listel, after all, an Observer, so it would literally be her job. She's also naturally very curious and eager to learn, and she's never been described as subtle. The fact that she has to learn about Alex is likely just a formality for her...



Emotional reunion, jump-induced nightmare, what's the difference, right?

Yeah this was a funny page.

I have to agree Beryle is somewhere between a a teenage girl getting the attention form the captain of the football team's attention and a new dalmatian puppy (they are full of energy until they're like 8 or 9).

I take a slightly different view to Beryl's invasion of Alex's personal space.

Setting aside cultural differences, I'd say it's likely she's trying to sniff him out telepathically.

He reads as a blank to all Loroi. That's gotta be disconcerting from their point of view. Even if they've squared it away intellectually, it's going to take time to do that instinctively. He's there, but their senses, the ones they use to spot people, insist that there's nothing. She's coming up ever so close to 'see' him better, to see if there's even a hint of him on her Psidar.

Its somewhat like if someone were 99.99% transparent. You can tell someone's there, you can certainly infer their existence, but you'd be hard pressed not to come up close and peer to catch the barest glimpse of what they look like. This I think partly explains Beryl's behaviour.

The rest of the explanation lies in that Beryl wants to jump Alex's bones. At least once. Preferably more than once.

For Science.

I've actually said this before. Beryl has 5 points of Xenophilia (it doesn't mean what you think it means (unless it does)), which means she is interested in non-Loroi to the point where it can be detrimental to her, whether that means getting yelled at for talking to Alex about baseball instead of monitoring her displays, or finding out which bacteria in the human mouth are effective on Loroi. Even if she wasn't ordered to be there she probably would be, and if she was excluded she would probably go out of her way to get on the shuttle. Add to that the fact that Beryl also has the Charitable disad and Alex has been treated most uncharitably recently and I think she'd blow a gasket if she wasn't allowed to show up and be friendly (she also has Bad Temper).

As far as the good cop/bad cop I'm honestly not even sure that's intentional. It can just as easily be both of them simply being themselves. Of course I can see Tempo looking at their personalities and assigning them specifically because of the natural good cop/bad cop dynamic as well.

Presumably Loroi have a large personal space only because of their ability to pick up psychic broadcasts from just about every living species, save of course humanity.

Perhaps there is no discernible personal space to avoid with Jardin, because of his lack of any psychic broadcast?

So maybe a Loroi is like a bat with sonar, when it comes to personal space.

GRAAAAAHHHHH!...

I was here on july 31, refreshing the page time and again, looking for the new page, then it comes out just after I go away for a few days O_O (literally only about an hour), Arioch must be stalking me :p.


Or I just am really that unlucky v_v

___________________________
Back onto the topic of our conversation, Beryl, and her cute happy face seeking some kind of affirmative reaction from alex.

First: She is the junior officer on board in her role, yet high enough ranked to be given the responsibility of handling a first contact situation while the primary intelligence officer on board remains in her position.

Alex is important enough that they consider sending Fireblade and a team of her elite warriors to escort him, so the job of being his primary communication individual, caretaker and such belongs to Beryl... this is both an honour and a great responsibility, particularly in critical situations like a first contact situation in the midst of a war, which could contribute an ally that might just sway the balance of battle in their favour.

So: with these facts in place, setting the initial scene, and the actions we can see taking place on camera, we need to examine the situation itself:
Beryl is NOT the ranking diplomat on the warship, she isn't supposed to serve as a negotiator, instead she is a learner, and observer, I do believe that in her role she both has a desire and need to gain as much new information about their companion as they can, and she has had her job of babysitter for Alex probably from the day he was revived, although for security reasons they have isolated him as best they can.
Bringing up psychological traits of humans and trying to use them to explain Loroi behaviours is a very dangerous game, so dangerous in fact that I'd argue they are utterly irrelevant, the nuances of human psycology are said to be rooted in our brains natural design, saying that a physically similar yet completely different race would exhibit similar behaviours is night impossible. An earthly example is I've never heard of a shark jumping through hoops.

No, in fact the reason Alex has been so isolated is probably due to his unknown element, is he an ambassador of a future ally, with whom they can share information, or is he a member of a future enemy who will need to be destroyed lest valuable information reach their foes ears? And of course finally: The prison cells MIGHT just be escape pods themselves, able to be jettisoned in a crisis to prevent problems, and to transfer prisoners between ships without offering an opportunity to escape?
And let us not forget that the Loroi were in potentially hostile terrain, they would not want to place him in any further risk than they need do, so keeping him contained in the heaviest guarded, and best protected portion of the ship, the prison is probably not a unreasonable idea.

Still, would Beryl, from a caste to whom learning as much as possible is considered the primary goal and task be happy by this limiting of contact? It cannot be certain, but my estimation is she has been thinking up different things she needs to try around him to see his reaction to get a first opinion on the behaviours of humaniti so as to further her understanding and learning potential.
Humaniti has no psitouch issues, so is it not possible we are far more comfortable with close quarters contact than traditional Loroi? Perhaps, the easy way to test it is to move herself closer and watch for the reactions invoked, given both humans and Loroi exhibit noticeably similar expressions and instinctive reactions, her getting close to him so far has yeilded a more open minded human so far, he shows more friendly interest to her than he does to fireblade, who is far more standoffish, so odds are she will attempt to try many more things in the interests of learning (I will do it, FOR SCIENCE!) and not all of them will be pleasant.
Only twice have the Loroi so far tried to use force against a human, both times they got a rather negative reaction out of their captive subject, so they ought to understand by now that trying to impose their will upon us through force or by making sweeping declarations does not motivate us to co-operate, because we don't like to bow, we are far too independent. It is my conclusion that it isn't hard to believe that Beryl has spent the last week preparing for this, coming up with different things she needs to try out to test the waters, and explore Alex's range of reactions to her behaviours.

Unfortunately for all those fanfic writers out there, odds are Beryl won't be trying to experiment with lap dances on screen.
Fortunately for the rest of us, that also means that Fireblade won't be dressing in black with a riding crop in hand either.

First. AWESOME New Page! Love it! We'll see what "'Very' good care of you..." means... hehe!

Why the isolation?

{ahem}..I hate to bring this up ...but no one else seems to have mentioned this... {I'm almost embarrassed to put this to words...}

Theoretical Situation:
Circa: 1950

Suppose a U.S. Navy warship came across a downed escape pod from a alien race and the sole member was a sexy, very appealing, elf-like woman, humanoid and obviously of similar build - definitely female and she can speak German... because that is the first language that was broadcast on earth with any radio transmissions!

What do you think they would do? Certainly could not put her in a cabin anywhere!

More importantly what do you think all the Navy sailors would be thinking about the young pretty elf-girl?
Then consider how women are viewed in that era in general.

Now... back to unreality.
Look at all the definite attention that Alex engendered from the Lori crewwomen as he made his way to the bridge... specifically pages 41 {first two panels}, 42 {first panel}, 47 {second panel}, page 55 {third and fourth panels}.

Alex is attractive... I do not believe just because his ears are not pointed or his skin not technicolor this fact is lost on the all-female crew of matriarchal soldiers. who admittedly have not seen a male of their species in a long time.

From what we know males are rare and it considered a privalage or some note to be given access to one considering how scare they are.

Have I drawn a complete enough picture...? do I really need to spell it out?

Alex was kept in isolation for his own good and for security and for future diplomatic necessities. I would not put it beyond the pale for the demonstrably aggressive, and assertive Loroi females to not consider taking a few 'unsanctioned' liberties with the attractive male in their presence.

Some added isolation would be... prudent to any commander or diplomat in charge.

Now I'll shut up and go back to my CthulhuTech...

PS: Yeah, Beryl is soo hitting on Alex... I see it!

@sunphoenix:


Nope, you don´t. Or did anyone really wonder, why there where no woman allowed on sailing ships back in the old days?

Good call. I like this.

I wonder, are loroi females territorial?

Maybe they get along fine when there are no males around, but...

Hello there, long time listener first time caller!

I don't really think she was trying to learn anything with what she was doing psychically. I thought it was more along the lines of cocking her head to the side and squinting at something she couldn't see. If we could read her mind she'd be thinking, "That's so strange, it's like you're not there at all!" I think Alex must be very unsettling for the Lori, which is why I like this so much:



I went to a wax museum once; the figures there aren't really enough like humans to fool anyone so if you want to look at them the impulse is to lean right in and get as close as you would with a painting or some such. But then I'd turn, get distracted, and the corner of my eye would inform me that I was only 3 inches from someone I hadn't noticed before. It was enough to make me jump several times.

The Loroi might have the exact opposite problem with Alex. When they're paying attention to him they realize he's a self motivated sophant and so they don't get any closer to him then there culture allows. When they quit paying attention he becomes the mental equivalent of a robot or a spacesuit and they don't care what his proximity is to them.

That and everyone has to fit in the picture.



Yeah, that to probably. Heh

Mr moderator fredgiblet sir, you clearly have sources of information that I have not been able to find. Stats pages for the Outsider characters in some kind of game. Are they canon, and where are they located?



They're telepathic and can be holding whole briefing sessions while walking along with Alex. This is a war situation: once they know Alex can't overhear their sanzai they are bound to use it to coordinate themselves around him.

Alex has been told of the Listel's accurate memory, so he's been given a clue that she's there to gather information, and be on his guard.

Beryl has been forward in all her interactions with Alex. She may or may not be enjoying it, but I'm sure she's been ordered to find out everything she can.

Not on my work computer. There's GURPS pages in the wild for Tempo, Fireblade and Beryl. Fireblade is in the Insider, the others aren't. I'll post the link when I get home if no one beats me to it. It's pseudo-canon, made by Arioch and probably mostly accurate, but it was last updated years ago and at least one point has been contradicted but it should still be usable.



So he says, but they don't actually KNOW.



Listel or not that should be his default assumption for any Loroi he meets.

The shuttle has relatively long in-system range, but has no FTL or interstellar capability. SG51 is currently in a system just a few jumps from Azimol, whereas Seren is quite some distance away. The plan is for the shuttle to transfer Alex and his associates to one of the escort vessels of the supply column, which will then take them to Seren.

Interesting. I didn't expect Alex to be away from the Tempest for very long. I guess I was wrong.

I like were your going here. But i think Fireblade not doing the "bad cop" role. She just like to rought up people from time to time.


Other important question... Is the purple uniform beryl holding in her arm a spare, or is it intended for alex? *shudder* eww!



If that true, why didn't the guard "fell a cope"? If i was the only guard of the alien elf-chick... i would probably try to be friendly... maybe more considering the "several week" he spend in isolation.

No different. Only different in your mind.
--Yoda

While such explanations apply handily to Alex's confinement, the lack of communication he spoke of does not fit such a model.

Alex's surprise at the mention of the Listel caste's accurate memory would tend to indicate that this is not a trait he shares; therefore I believe the Loroi would be wise to think any information he has to be a perishable commodity, and one to be extracted as soon as possible. Thus I would expect, under such circumstances, that he would be confined to his cell, but also visited daily by either Tempo or another information-gatherer. This is something that I think Stillstorm would agree to, not least of all because it can be a method of confrontation. If the Loroi were not willing to make any assumptions at all regarding their ability to understand and manipulate human emotions and psychology, then I would expect them to work as quickly as possible to get as many statements as possible out of him, and worry about evaluating them later.

It might be imprudent to regard human psychology and Loroi psychology as analogous, but it would also be imprudent to regard human psychology and canine psychology as analogous. Humans and Loroi do not share similar emergent social structures, nor do humans and canines. Humans and Loroi do not share qualia of sensation, since humans lack telepathy; neither do humans and canines, since canines lack color vision and humans lack olfactory refinement. But trained individuals are able to understand dogs well enough to produce reproducible desirable reactions out of them; not just training, but resocializing some maltreated individuals to conform to domestic standards. Just because a psychology is alien does not mean it is not rationally or even intuitively comprehensible, and comprehending alien minds is, I believe, part of Tempo's job description. As I said earlier, I believe that when she was speaking with him on the bridge she was sounding him out, and has likely learned a number of things. She has, for instance, undoubtably learned how he reacts to the loss of his crewmates. How he responds to overt aggression. How he reacts to accusation, to implication, to the loss of his old social ground, etc. I think she saw that he was inclined towards trusting Beryl as tentative means of of securing new social grounding (and that Beryl was enthusiastic at the prospect), and I believe she chose to intensify the reaction. This thought process could occur regardless of whether or not Loroi would react to such circumstances in a remotely similar manner, as it is based on conscious understanding rather than any heartfelt sentiment on the part of the manipulator.

I think it is worth pointing out again that the Loroi have had centuries of very significant contact with a number of different sophont alien species, and likely have much greater understanding of what sorts of psyches would be universal to all highly social but noneusocial rational sophonts than humanity does. I am not attempting to make statements regarding Loroi emotions here; whether or not Loroi feel or react in certain ways, they are surely still as capable of understanding a human psyche as humans are of understanding those of dogs, and, having as much experience with other alien minds as they have had, I believe that Tempo trying to understand Alex would be more like a wild animal expert with no experience dealing with dogs but some level of experience with wolves who is trying to understand a dog than it would be akin to a cynophobe with no experience in animal handling attempting to do so. Natural empathy is not necessary for the variety and level of understanding I am attributing to her.

Ah. My apologies; I thought that was what you meant when you said that you took her intrusion into his space as a matter of "practical necessity."

They were once located in the temp folder. However, after looking there, I have been unable to find Beryl's character sheet, and Fireblade's was moved to the Insider.

Here's Tempo.

I am sure they are as canon as you would expect a generic RPG interpretation of character concepts Arioch might have made way back in the day as part of his planning process and then might have subsequently changed his mind about or abandoned or deviated from or whatever to be. Broad strokes.

Though, Fireblade's sheet was promoted to a place in the Insider, so it's almost definitely a bit more accurate than the others.

Speaking of broad strokes and outdated information, you might also be interested in Arioch's Combat Sim .pdf, which is also in the temp folder.

did anyone else get the impression that Berly's next line was going to be "And I certainly won't let you starve to death like the last one".

Seriously though, according to the insider the Loroi treat males a bit like dependant children who need to be protected and cared for. Which is what i think is happening here with Beryl promising to take good care of Alex. More importantly though it looks like Alex (and us!) are going to get a bunch of Q&A!

or: And now i know your species is not impervious to fire.

Then again, whatever information that managed to survive the trauma they've put him through is probably going to survive for another week. I assumed that the Loroi officers had finally realized that humans are fragile and were going "shit shit shit we need to make sure he's relatively safe until we figure out what to do with him."