Well of Souls Forums

TrashMan wrote:Technicly, with good enough knowledge of biology and manipulation, you should be able to create offspring. If you know how human DNA transmits data and how Loroi DNA transmits data, you can basicly create "artificial" life-forms. Altough it would be more classified as "genetic experiment" or "sin against nature" than offspring.

Well, the "data" in DNA isn't a schematic of an organism, it's just a series of instructions to manipulate certain molecules and thereby trigger certain biochemistry-specific processes; if Soia-Liron and Earth biology use different molecules or processes, then that "data" is not very useful, like machine code for two completely unrelated processors. With sufficient knowledge, technology and skill, you could try to "translate" from one system to the other, but what you'd get would be like a port of a PC program to a console (or vice-versa)... the functionality would never be quite the same. And trying to mix the traits of two individuals with different biochemical systems together would have to be the conscious effort of the builder, like an artist creating a sculpture meant to look half like one person and half like another; it would be an extremely subjective creation and not any kind of "offspring" in the conventional sense. If you decided to build a human with the Soia-Liron biochemistry, you'd get something that looks suspiciously like a Loroi.

Razor One wrote:
Let us cackle maniacally together!

I haven't stopped since 1994

Personally, I favor the Chimera method (tricky though it would be).

Also, wolverines for hands.

Arioch wrote:

TrashMan wrote:Technicly, with good enough knowledge of biology and manipulation, you should be able to create offspring. If you know how human DNA transmits data and how Loroi DNA transmits data, you can basicly create "artificial" life-forms. Altough it would be more classified as "genetic experiment" or "sin against nature" than offspring.

Well, the "data" in DNA isn't a schematic of an organism, it's just a series of instructions to manipulate certain molecules and thereby trigger certain biochemistry-specific processes; if Soia-Liron and Earth biology use different molecules or processes, then that "data" is not very useful, like machine code for two completely unrelated processors. With sufficient knowledge, technology and skill, you could try to "translate" from one system to the other, but what you'd get would be like a port of a PC program to a console (or vice-versa)... the functionality would never be quite the same. And trying to mix the traits of two individuals with different biochemical systems together would have to be the conscious effort of the builder, like an artist creating a sculpture meant to look half like one person and half like another; it would be an extremely subjective creation and not any kind of "offspring" in the conventional sense. If you decided to build a human with the Soia-Liron biochemistry, you'd get something that looks suspiciously like a Loroi.

Given that the natural way is random, there's not much difference.
Of course, the buidler could also randomize on purpose.

And given that Loroi or humans already look alike...

FOR SCIENCE!!!

The more I read this... the more I can't stop seeing Beryl's thought bubble... "I'm sooo gonna tap that...!"



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... I must be reading more into it than must be there. Guess I'm a perv.

sunphoenix wrote:The more I read this... the more I can't stop seeing Beryl's thought bubble... "I'm sooo gonna tap that...!"



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... I must be reading more into it than must be there. Guess I'm a perv.

You're calling yourself a perv for shipping two characters in a sci-fi space opera visual novel/webcomic. Big deal. I've written Romney/Santorum fanfiction.

I win.

ed_montague wrote:Big deal. I've written Romney/Santorum fanfiction.

I win.

That is a rather Pyrrhic victory, Mr. Montague.

Solemn wrote:

ed_montague wrote:Big deal. I've written Romney/Santorum fanfiction.

I win.

That is a rather Pyrrhic victory, Mr. Montague.

I think that it would be covered by the First Amendment and the rules on parody (if Robot Chicken can get away with the stuff it broadcasts, a fun little story featuring Cthulhu!Gingrich and Ron Paul's war zeppelin shouldn't be a problem) but I'm slightly worried about posting it on DeviantArt--I wouldn't put it past Romney to sue me for defamation of character.

Aw, hell, it's not that bad. And it's not as if people actually read my stuff.

So you're on Da too?

Incorrect. I am on Nyet.

Just have to say that as one who has spent years underwater in submarines, Ariochs use of personal space is both familiar and surprising..! The close contact or (lack of personal space) is very realistic (for a 300ft long submarine)
The wide open rooms and passageways on the spaceships are remarkably spacious though (almost too much so) but this creates a wonderful visual feel to this story.
So from a realism standpoint there is way too much space, but drawing it "realistically" would create an entirely different visual pallet... and it would not be appealing!
So kudos Arioch! Beautiful design! I'm not sure if the combination of greatly reduced personal space and huge beautiful, and intriguing vistas was intentional... But please don't change it!

Love this! Will have to purchase a hard copy when it reaches it's conclusion!

xshawk: you will notice a distinct design difference between the terran ships and loroi, terran are closer to what you would think proper, still not near as claustrophobic as a sub though, i think you might see that in the 'proper' terran military ships, this is a LONG range scout spending months or years inside it without even seeing a hint of possible shore leave makes comfort a bigger priority me thinks.

discord wrote:xshawk: you will notice a distinct design difference between the terran ships and loroi, terran are closer to what you would think proper, still not near as claustrophobic as a sub though, i think you might see that in the 'proper' terran military ships, this is a LONG range scout spending months or years inside it without even seeing a hint of possible shore leave makes comfort a bigger priority me thinks.

Plus, the Loroi as a species requires more personal space, so ships with larger corridors, ect, would probably be added as standard.

Arioch wrote:

TrashMan wrote:Technicly, with good enough knowledge of biology and manipulation, you should be able to create offspring. If you know how human DNA transmits data and how Loroi DNA transmits data, you can basicly create "artificial" life-forms. Altough it would be more classified as "genetic experiment" or "sin against nature" than offspring.

Well, the "data" in DNA isn't a schematic of an organism, it's just a series of instructions to manipulate certain molecules and thereby trigger certain biochemistry-specific processes; if Soia-Liron and Earth biology use different molecules or processes, then that "data" is not very useful, like machine code for two completely unrelated processors. With sufficient knowledge, technology and skill, you could try to "translate" from one system to the other, but what you'd get would be like a port of a PC program to a console (or vice-versa)... the functionality would never be quite the same. And trying to mix the traits of two individuals with different biochemical systems together would have to be the conscious effort of the builder, like an artist creating a sculpture meant to look half like one person and half like another; it would be an extremely subjective creation and not any kind of "offspring" in the conventional sense. If you decided to build a human with the Soia-Liron biochemistry, you'd get something that looks suspiciously like a Loroi.

It's not said that we are fully incompatible. I don't expect offsprings, but we may use some of their chemicals. For example, in emergency you can give cleaned loroi blood to human. As copper based bloodsells would work as easily in human veins. Maybe he tire easily, but in theory he should survive. But I don't advice to give human hemoglobin to loroi. Because our redsells are much bigger than copper based oxygen transferers, they are probably too big to travel in thinnest weins of loroi and they could block the loroi lungs.

bunnyboy wrote:It's not said that we are fully incompatible. I don't expect offsprings, but we may use some of their chemicals. For example, in emergency you can give cleaned loroi blood to human. As copper based bloodsells would work as easily in human veins. Maybe he tire easily, but in theory he should survive. But I don't advice to give human hemoglobin to loroi. Because our redsells are much bigger than copper based oxygen transferers, they are probably too big to travel in thinnest weins of loroi and they could block the loroi lungs.

It seems to me that you assume Loroi blood must conform to several non-obligate terrestrial norms. That it must be non-corpuscular, because earthly hemocyanin is not jacketed in corpuscles. That it is both non-toxic and non-allergenic, because our world's hemocyanin is. I do not think that any of these are necessarily good assumptions to make.

Even if their blood doesn't contain any chemicals which are directly toxic to humans, there's still a host of issues to overcome.

Blood transfusions don't currently work between all humans and all other humans. We will likely have sorted a lot of that out between now and 2160, but the unimaginable number of unanticipated failure points (we are after all talking about unrelated terrestrial and extraterrestrial biochemistries here) make me skeptical that it would be as easy or simple as you say.

Michael wrote:So you're on Da too?

ListelTozetEilis wrote:Incorrect. I am on Nyet.

This amused me more than it should have.

Solemn wrote:...

I have no idea what you said, but I with quick help of translation from google and wikipedia, I can quess. It is true that I took some assumptions.

The loroi blood use copper instead of iron, so I assumed that it is hemocyanin or something similar.
Also I assumed that loroi breath similar air and eat almost similar food than we.
So it is wery unlikely that loroi shampoo would make us explode.

And when I said cleaned blood, I meaned clearest quality of plasma. I'm not expert of these things, but my roommate who moved away at year ago was and I see that I have forgot lot.

Xshawk wrote:Just have to say that as one who has spent years underwater in submarines, Ariochs use of personal space is both familiar and surprising..! The close contact or (lack of personal space) is very realistic (for a 300ft long submarine) The wide open rooms and passageways on the spaceships are remarkably spacious though (almost too much so) but this creates a wonderful visual feel to this story.

So from a realism standpoint there is way too much space, but drawing it "realistically" would create an entirely different visual pallet... and it would not be appealing! So kudos Arioch! Beautiful design! I'm not sure if the combination of greatly reduced personal space and huge beautiful, and intriguing vistas was intentional... But please don't change it!

Thanks for the kind words. The Loroi interiors are perhaps unrealistically spacious for several reasons: to differentiate them from the comparatively cramped Terran interiors, as a visual aesthetic (the Loroi valuing appearance even near the limit of impracticality), and lastly as a practical matter for the 3D sets, as it's difficult to position the virtual cameras within a confined space. If a set is cramped enough you actually have to build it with removable walls or ceilings (as they do with real live sets) to be able to position cameras with the correct points of view.

Regarding personal space: the shipboard Loroi are accustomed to having very little personal space; they work in close proximity, and have little or no privacy. Most of the crew do not have private cabins, but instead sleep in capsule bunks just a few feet from each other. What Alex was noticing is that they don't actually touch each other. Unfortunately, the way the early scenes played out, he probably doesn't have much experience on which to base that observation, except for the incident with Fireblade in the elevator. An earlier version of the scene in which Alex meets Tempo had Alex offering his hand in greeting, and Tempo just staring at it in puzzlement (a variant of that interchange is coming up shortly with a different character).

Arioch wrote:(a variant of that interchange is coming up shortly with a different character).

I bet 50 points it Alex with another loroi!

Karst45 wrote:

Arioch wrote:(a variant of that interchange is coming up shortly with a different character).

I bet 50 points it Alex with another loroi!

I have a guess who it is, but I seem to always be wrong in my speculative story guesses, so I'll just wait until it happens.